Are you supposed to forgive "some" only?

[Lamb]

For the limited atonement believers, do you only forgive some people? How do you know who you're supposed to forgive since only God knows the heart of men? How do you see this verse:

Matthew 6:14
For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

And this verse?

Acts 7:59-60
While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.”

That verse doesn't say Lord you didn't die for them...it says do not hold this sin against them. How do you reconcile such a verse?

Then there's this:

Matthew 18:21-22
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times? “Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.”


What I'm getting at is that scripture tells us to love our neighbors...it doesn't say to only love some. It doesn't say to only forgive Christians. So why would you only believe that God doesn't love the world?

 

[Josiah]

For the limited atonement believers, do you only forgive some people? How do you know who you're supposed to forgive since only God knows the heart of men? How do you see this verse:

Matthew 6:14
For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

And this verse?

Acts 7:59-60
While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.”

That verse doesn't say Lord you didn't die for them...it says do not hold this sin against them. How do you reconcile such a verse?

Then there's this:

Matthew 18:21-22
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times? “Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.”


What I'm getting at is that scripture tells us to love our neighbors...it doesn't say to only love some. It doesn't say to only forgive Christians. So why would you only believe that God doesn't love the world?

In the horrible teaching of Limited Atonement, no one can tell anyone that God forgives them (He probably doens't). But I suppose they could say that THEY personally forgive them, just probably not God.

 

[Lamb]

In the horrible teaching of Limited Atonement, no one can tell anyone that God forgives them (He probably doens't). But I suppose they could say that THEY personally forgive them, just probably not God.

What I'm getting at is why would God tell us to forgive all people when they think Jesus' death did nothing for all people anyway?

 

[tango]

In the horrible teaching of Limited Atonement, no one can tell anyone that God forgives them (He probably doens't). But I suppose they could say that THEY personally forgive them, just probably not God.

In this limited atonement world, why would we even want to forgive someone else? If our sins aren't going to be forgiven anyway what difference does it make?

I guess you need to totally do away with any concept of free will and turn us all into automatons for it to even remotely work. The idea of creating someone, not giving them any freedom to make the right decision and then punishing them for all eternity for not making the decision they were never allowed to make is a curious concept of love. If that's love I shudder to think what hate looks like.

 

[1689Dave]

For the limited atonement believers, do you only forgive some people? How do you know who you're supposed to forgive since only God knows the heart of men? How do you see this verse:

Matthew 6:14
For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

And this verse?

Acts 7:59-60
While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.”

That verse doesn't say Lord you didn't die for them...it says do not hold this sin against them. How do you reconcile such a verse?

Then there's this:

Matthew 18:21-22
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times? “Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.”


What I'm getting at is that scripture tells us to love our neighbors...it doesn't say to only love some. It doesn't say to only forgive Christians. So why would you only believe that God doesn't love the world?

I forgive everyone. Why? They are only doing what God wants them to do, for better or worse.

 

[1689Dave]

What I'm getting at is why would God tell us to forgive all people when they think Jesus' death did nothing for all people anyway?

Without forgiveness, we are not forgiven. In any case, we are angry and unforgiving of God who orders the thoughts and actions of every person. Thank God for those he uses to strengthen our faith while at the same time bringing wrath upon them.

 

[Stravinsk]

Without forgiveness, we are not forgiven. In any case, we are angry and unforgiving of God who orders the thoughts and actions of every person. Thank God for those he uses to strengthen our faith while at the same time bringing wrath upon them.

Maybe you should speak for yourself, Dave, without using the 'we' inclusive in assuming everyone thinks the same as you. It is unfortunate you have such anger and unforgiveness of God, but I do think this stems from your position(s) on predestination that come from your favorite pharisee.

 

[Lamb]

I forgive everyone. Why? They are only doing what God wants them to do, for better or worse.

If you don't believe God forgives them, why is He expecting YOU to do it?

 

[1689Dave]

Maybe you should speak for yourself, Dave, without using the 'we' inclusive in assuming everyone thinks the same as you. It is unfortunate you have such anger and unforgiveness of God, but I do think this stems from your position(s) on predestination that come from your favorite pharisee.

You don't know me. Only those who know me can accurately describe me. I forgive you from the bottom of my heart for saying this about me.

 

[1689Dave]

If you don't believe God forgives them, why is He expecting YOU to do it?

He expects lots more from us than that. We are not to kill enemies or use violence to defend ourselves.

 

[Lamb]

He expects lots more from us than that. We are not to kill enemies or use violence to defend ourselves.

If He hates everyone who isn't the elect, WHY would He ever want that from YOU?

 

[1689Dave]

If He hates everyone who isn't the elect, WHY would He ever want that from YOU?

It's about Christ being formed in us. That's why we don't use physical violence to defend ourselves.

 

[Lamb]

It's about Christ being formed in us. That's why we don't use physical violence to defend ourselves.

But Christ hated the non-elect according to your theology. So what difference would it make?

 

[1689Dave]

But Christ hated the non-elect according to your theology. So what difference would it make?

He did. Can you find a place where he said he loved them? The wicked help shape Christ in us. Knowing God is the cause of their foul actions, we understand that it works for our good. But they suffer his wrath for doing it. It helps in knowing that. I've seen it too many times in these situations.

 

[Lamb]

He did. Can you find a place where he said he loved them? The wicked help shape Christ in us. Knowing God is the cause of their foul actions, we understand that it works for our good. But they suffer his wrath for doing it. It helps in knowing that. I've seen it too many times in these situations.

So why are you loving others when you insist God doesn't love everyone?

 

[1689Dave]

So why are you loving others when you insist God doesn't love everyone?

Loving enemies is the supreme test of discipleship. Especially if they kill you while you turn the other cheek.

 

[Lamb]

Loving enemies is the supreme test of discipleship. Especially if they kill you while you turn the other cheek.

But why would God demand you love your enemies when you claim He doesn't love them?

 

[1689Dave]

But why would God demand you love your enemies when you claim He doesn't love them?

He forms Christ in us through much tribulation. Have you ever been persecuted for your faith?

 

[Lamb]

He forms Christ in us through much tribulation. Have you ever been persecuted for your faith?

Forming Christ in us would mean that Christ loves them too.

 

[1689Dave]

Forming Christ in us would mean that Christ loves them too.

Where does he say he loves the wicked? How great is God's mercy if he saves those he hates? As opposed to those he loves? If he loves the wicked, they have value and share in his glory.

“And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?” Daniel 4:35 (KJV 1900)