Forgiveness

[MoreCoffee]

I do not advocate for the way of life that some live as Christians but I cannot help but speak in awe of the feats of Christian compassion that some, who are in what many see as a cult, accomplish because of their faith and way of living. One such example is forgiveness as it is shown by the Amish Community in Pennsylvania 2006, following the school shooting there.

This is a made for TV movie about the events, it is fairly accurate but has some fictional elements in it. It is a hard film to watch, not for any horror or any gore in it, there is none, but for its empathy inducing story that made me cry.

There is one scene that is particularly moving, it is at this location.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Seems the post, the film, or their combination has silenced those few who have looked at the post.

I do hope some of you will look further, maybe watch the film if you are able to take it, and if you have time to watch it.

I believe that there's at least one lesson in it, probably many.

God bless.

 

[1689Dave]

Seems the post, the film, or their combination has silenced those few who have looked at the post.

I do hope some of you will look further, maybe watch the film if you are able to take it, and if you have time to watch it.

I believe that there's at least one lesson in it, probably many.

God bless.

They have an enduring witness surviving not only the Catholics but also the Reformers in those times. Murdered for disagreeing with them.

 

[MoreCoffee]

They have an enduring witness surviving not only the Catholics but also the Reformers in those times. Murdered for disagreeing with them.

The children killed were not killed because they were Amish but because the man who killed them was insane with grief about his daughter who died on the day of her birth. His heart broke, he became furious with God, planned revenge against God, and took the lives of the children as his revenge against God.

What can one make of such a story? It is very hard to listen to, harder to watch, and hardest of all would be to be a participant in the aftermath. God grant grace to those who died, to them all, and mercy to the wrong doer also. There's a story behind many sins, it is good to pause and think about the story and pray.

 

[1689Dave]

The children killed were not killed because they were Amish but because the man who killed them was insane with grief about his daughter who died on the day of her birth. His heart broke, he became furious with God, planned revenge against God, and took the lives of the children as his revenge against God.

What can one make of such a story? It is very hard to listen to, harder to watch, and hardest of all would be to be a participant in the aftermath. God grant grace to those who died, to them all, and mercy to the wrong doer also. There's a story behind many sins, it is good to pause and think about the story and pray.

This is not true in history, The Catholics and the Reformers killed untold thousands for thinking about what the bible said instead of what the Institutional Churches forced them to think.

 

[atpollard]

“Oh that’s right. I’m not supposed to speak about Emma. She’s shunned for marrying an Englishman. So we can forgive the man for murdering our children, but we cannot forgive a lonely widow for falling in love.”

This quote from a scene in the video illustrates the “Pharisaical” nature of their cult. Yes, they get some things absolutely right … like the call for Christians to LIVE the love and forgiveness that we have received … while adding on layers of man-made rules that create pain and hardship just as evil and “unloving” as any act of murder.

 

[atpollard]

I have a personal story of grief and revenge and mourning and forgiveness and anger and confusion and trying to understand “what the h*ll God was thinking”.

Almost two decades ago now, my youngest brother who had previously left his wife and children to move in with another woman, was finally struggling with the questions of Jesus and the God of the Bible. Who was this Jesus and what does God require. He was hearing one thing from the JW at work and something else from other Christians in his life (including me). While he was still struggling with these questions there were a series of events:

1. His car broke down two blocks from home and he started to walk home.
2. A Methodist Minister suffered a hypoglycemic attack.
3. Driving irrationally, the minister made a u-turn on a six lane divided highway - driving across the median - and proceeded to bounce across driveways as he drove along the grass shoulder.
4. The Minister struck my brother from behind, never stopping, flung his body through the air like a rag doll and my brother died at the scene.

At the funeral, someone asked me if I wanted revenge against the driver that killed him and drove off. I was not in an emotional state to “think” about an answer, so I just answered the question honestly and from my heart:

”If it would bring Richard back, I would crush the life out of his body with my bare hands. But what I want is my brother alive, not that other man dead. So I don’t want anything from him.”

In the reality of the situation, I could not escape the hand of a sovereign God … therefore any “axe to grind” was not with the driver … it was with God. So I did not visit the driver, but I never held any anger towards the man that killed my brother. [Just a great deal of confusion and pain about what God chooses to cause/allow to happen].

 

[1689Dave]

“Oh that’s right. I’m not supposed to speak about Emma. She’s shunned for marrying an Englishman. So we can forgive the man for murdering our children, but we cannot forgive a lonely widow for falling in love.”

This quote from a scene in the video illustrates the “Pharisaical” nature of their cult. Yes, they get some things absolutely right … like the call for Christians to LIVE the love and forgiveness that we have received … while adding on layers of man-made rules that create pain and hardship just as evil and “unloving” as any act of murder.

I had close contact with the Mennonites for a couple of years. The Amish broke off from them. And they have a completely different tone about them from other Christian groups I'm familiar with. They repudiate violence under any circumstance which is a tone you don't pick up on too often. They also live the Sermon on the Mount, practically unheard of today. Yet John essentially says, without it, you do not have God. So I believe they are closer to the teachings of Christ than any others brandishing his name.

 

[atpollard]

I had close contact with the Mennonites for a couple of years. The Amish broke off from them. And they have a completely different tone about them from other Christian groups I'm familiar with. They repudiate violence under any circumstance which is a tone you don't pick up on too often. They also live the Sermon on the Mount, practically unheard of today. Yet John essentially says, without it, you do not have God. So I believe they are closer to the teachings of Christ than any others brandishing his name.

The Pharisees in Jesus day were scrupulously HOLY with respect to living according to the law as well. Have the Amish and Mennonites, in fact, abandoned the Great Commission (which one might argue from scripture is the heart of the gospel)?

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven … so what is the will of our Father in Heaven?

 

[1689Dave]

The Pharisees in Jesus day were scrupulously HOLY with respect to living according to the law as well. Have the Amish and Mennonites, in fact, abandoned the Great Commission (which one might argue from scripture is the heart of the gospel)?

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven … so what is the will of our Father in Heaven?

Mennonite Missions cover the world. The Amish broke off from them but their origins are the same. The Sermon divides the wheat from the chaff anyone who ever lived it will tell you.

 

[MoreCoffee]

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven … so what is the will of our Father in Heaven?

If you will forgive men their sins, your heavenly Father also will forgive you your offenses. Forgive one another. For just as the Lord has forgiven you, so also must you do.

Maybe God wants people to forgive one another?

 

[Josiah]

If you will forgive men their sins, your heavenly Father also will forgive you your offenses. Forgive one another. For just as the Lord has forgiven you, so also must you do.

Maybe God wants people to forgive one another?

Okay.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Okay.

Most appreciative that you agree, I think you agree, but I was waiting for something from the chap to whom I replied.

 

[atpollard]

Maybe God wants people to forgive one another?

This “chap” is not one to comment on what God wants except to quote His Word to offer a specific example of SOMETHING that God claims that He wants. My question was more “rhetorical” and aimed at asking if abandoning the great commission and the world to form an insular community as the Amish chose as a way of life is what God desires of His children according to His word. I have stated that I believe it is not (however Christ-like this particular cult may be in other regards - like forgiveness or community).

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that the Amish are theologically correct: they have chosen to isolate and save themselves while abandoning the rest of humanity to damnation. That is NOT very Christ-like.

 

[atpollard]

“Oh that’s right. I’m not supposed to speak about Emma. She’s shunned for marrying an Englishman. So we can forgive the man for murdering our children, but we cannot forgive a lonely widow for falling in love.”

As this quote from the video demonstrates, the Amish were capable of being both as forgiving as Jesus himself and as unforgiving as any “brood of vipers” Pharisee that Jesus ever condemned … depending on the sin.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I do not advocate for the way of life that some live as Christians but I cannot help but speak in awe of the feats of Christian compassion that some, who are in what many see as a cult, accomplish because of their faith and way of living. One such example is forgiveness as it is shown by the Amish Community in Pennsylvania 2006, following the school shooting there.

“Oh that’s right. I’m not supposed to speak about Emma. She’s shunned for marrying an Englishman. So we can forgive the man for murdering our children, but we cannot forgive a lonely widow for falling in love.”

As this quote from the video demonstrates, the Amish were capable of being both as forgiving as Jesus himself and as unforgiving as any “brood of vipers” Pharisee that Jesus ever condemned … depending on the sin.

Aren't people remarkable for their inconsistency. One hopes that the forgiveness shown by the three elders, including the husband of the lady who you quoted, is the kind of forgiveness that one can expect from the Lord. Generous, pained by sin, yet open to light and goodness for the sake of the souls of those seeking forgiveness.

 

[atpollard]

And those same elders are the ones that shunned the widow mentioned in the quote.
Yup, people suck.
Isaiah 55:8 sure is a REALLY good thing.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Just remember this:

The lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.