Are you saved because you believe? Or do you believe because you are saved?

[MoreCoffee]

Check any valid dictionary of the bible.

I have no need to do so, I have a perfectly good Lexicon of Koine Greek, and another of Latin, and both teach me that baptism is about washing; when one is baptised the sins of the baptised person are washed away and the Holy Spirit comes to give new life. This is the teaching of Christ: "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless one has been reborn by water and the Holy Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. You should not be amazed that I said to you: You must be born anew. The Spirit inspires where he wills. And you hear his voice, but you do not know where he comes from, or where he is going. So it is with all who are born of the Spirit."
John 3:5-8

 

[1689Dave]

I have no need to do so, I have a perfectly good Lexicon of Koine Greek, and another of Latin, and both teach me that baptism is about washing; when one is baptised the sins of the baptised person are washed away and the Holy Spirit come to give new life. This is the teaching of Christ: "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless one has been reborn by water and the Holy Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. You should not be amazed that I said to you: You must be born anew. The Spirit inspires where he wills. And you hear his voice, but you do not know where he comes from, or where he is going. So it is with all who are born of the Spirit."
John 3:5-8

So you cherry-pick definitions too?

 

[MoreCoffee]

So you cherry-pick definitions too?

I use God's wisdom to find the truth and share the truth with people who are willing to receive it.
Baptism is the first of the seven sacraments, and the "door" which gives access to the other sacraments. Baptism is the first and chief sacrament of forgiveness of sins because it unites us with Christ, who died for our sins and rose for our justification. Baptism, Confirmation, and Eucharist constitute the "sacraments of initiation" by which a believer receives the remission of original and personal sin, begins a new life in Christ and the Holy Spirit, and is incorporated into the Church, the Body of Christ. The rite of Baptism consists in immersing the candidate in water, or pouring water on the head, while pronouncing the invocation of the Most Holy Trinity: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (977, 1213 ff.; 1275, 1278)

 

[1689Dave]

I use God's wisdom to find the truth and share the truth with people who are willing to receive it.
Baptism is the first of the seven sacraments, and the "door" which gives access to the other sacraments. Baptism is the first and chief sacrament of forgiveness of sins because it unites us with Christ, who died for our sins and rose for our justification. Baptism, Confirmation, and Eucharist constitute the "sacraments of initiation" by which a believer receives the remission of original and personal sin, begins a new life in Christ and the Holy Spirit, and is incorporated into the Church, the Body of Christ. The rite of Baptism consists in immersing the candidate in water, or pouring water on the head, while pronouncing the invocation of the Most Holy Trinity: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (977, 1213 ff.; 1275, 1278)

But, your "wisdom" violates scripture in more than one area.

 

[MoreCoffee]

But, your "wisdom" violates scripture in more than one area.

You are unqualified to discern what the scriptures teach, that much is evident from your posts.

 

[1689Dave]

You are unqualified to discern what the scriptures teach, that much is evident from your posts.

Says you? Coming from a church with such bloody history?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Says you? Coming from a church with such bloody history?

Your posts tell the story; I merely read it and observed its lesson.

 

[1689Dave]

Your posts tell the story; I merely read it and observed its lesson.

Thank God I can disagree with you as an American citizen.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Thank God I can disagree with you as an American citizen.

I am still waiting for you to respond to this question:

Being a Catholic I know that Godel's theorem regarding incompleteness in the created universe of Mathematics has an analogy in the creation of which we are a part. Fundamentally, every mystery in the holy scriptures is something that we - human beings - would not know but for God revealing it to us and that means that all we know is what God revealed rather than everything exhaustively implied by what God has revealed. Moses was taught to say to Israel "The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law." Deuteronomy 29:29. Catholic Christians have the humility and the wisdom to admit when our knowledge comes to an end.​

 

[1689Dave]

I am still waiting for you to respond to this question:

Being a Catholic I know that Godel's theorem regarding incompleteness in the created universe of Mathematics has an analogy in the creation of which we are a part. Fundamentally, every mystery in the holy scriptures is something that we - human beings - would not know but for God revealing it to us and that means that all we know is what God revealed rather than everything exhaustively implied by what God has revealed. Moses was taught to say to Israel "The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law." Deuteronomy 29:29. Catholic Christians have the humility and the wisdom to admit when our knowledge comes to an end.​

What about the Church's murderous rampages?

 

[MoreCoffee]

I am still waiting for you to respond to this question:

Being a Catholic I know that Godel's theorem regarding incompleteness in the created universe of Mathematics has an analogy in the creation of which we are a part. Fundamentally, every mystery in the holy scriptures is something that we - human beings - would not know but for God revealing it to us and that means that all we know is what God revealed rather than everything exhaustively implied by what God has revealed. Moses was taught to say to Israel "The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law." Deuteronomy 29:29. Catholic Christians have the humility and the wisdom to admit when our knowledge comes to an end.​

What about the Church's murderous rampages?

Your still haven't answered the question.