Is your idea of faith biblical?

Lamb

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I'm curious about the scriptural back up of what people consider faith to be? How we get it and then what?
 

Tigger

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Faith is a gift from God. Its not conceived but received.
 

Josiah

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Faith can be a noun (in which case it applies to the object of our faith) or as a verb (in which case it applies to the trust/reliance in that object).

I'll address it from the standpoint of the verb since that's the use we commonly use and as I think the OP means it...


"Faith" = to trust, to rely. Especially trust and reliance in something that cannot be empiracally proven. Theologically, to trust and rely on God.


When I was a kid, I had surgery (long story, doesn't matter). Anyway, I was just old enough to know I could die - and what that meant. I actually was okay with that. It had very little to do with heaven (a concept not yet in my heart or head) but with 1 John 4:8, "We rely on the love of God, because God is love."

I remember meeting the surgeon in the hospital - and that he kept calling me by the wrong name (Joe, I think). I realized, he doesn't know me - much less love me or even care about me. That was powerful. And yet, Mom and Dad told me he was a good doctor and God could use him. I was okay with that... I remember being moved onto the cold, hard table with the huge light above me - although by this time I was already very sleepy - fighting that as best I could.

I didn't know anything about the surgery, I didn't know anything about this surgeon, and clearly he knew nothing about me (not even my name) - or any of the rest of the staff involved in all this. And yet, I entrusted my life. Willingly. And I sooooo remember being okay wih that. I sooooo remember thinking: no matter what, it's okay, God loves me, and all that I love.

While my reliance was active on my part (I placed my life in their hands), there were no "works" on my part involved. There was no "obedience" other than I laid limp and allowed to happen whatever happened.


I know how planes fly; I understand the principles involved. Still, whenever I board one of those HUGE planes, I am amazed. They are soooooo big and heavy! And inside, they are STUFFED with overweight Americans (probably more so than the engineers planned for), and under them, all their luggage - too much. It's always the same. I look at those wings and that curvature and think, "no way!" And, of course, I don't know the pilot and he doesn't know me (or care). I don't know the flight plan or the weather report. I don't know the mechanics or their reports or when this plane was last overhauled. In fact, I know NOTHING about this particular plan or crew or flight. And I realize that when a plane stops working at 40K feet, well, it means we'll all be meeting Jesus. While the ODDS of that are very small, that means little for this particular flight - this could be that 1% (or whatever). It bothers me not. I board the plane. And as it takes off, as it's going down the runway, I hope to be able to see the wings and sit (passively!) in awe of it all, and then, surprisingly soon, the wheels chirp, and the plane rises - gloriously, and Hawaii is just 5 hours away.



Faith and Knowledge certainly have a relationship, but it's not a causitive or mechanical one, but rather a relational one. See my two illustrations above.

To insist that faith is the RESULT of knowledge is to deny that those below a certain IQ or age are capable of faith and therefore of salvation. And, IMO, undermines the very nature of faith which is to rest, rely, trust.

I am well aware that I can't "prove" much of anything in my heart. Actually, I "understand" probably LESS today than I did 3 or 4 years ago, more aware of the questions than the answers I have, more aware of mystery. It hasn't impacted my faith at all (if anything, it's increased it).


Luther said, "Faith is a busy, active thing." Faith changes us - from the inside out, and that reveals itself in genuine, not forced, things. Faith that is just some claim, words we chant, is not faith. Just chanting the right syllables is not faith.

There's two senses in which faith is to be active:

1. Faith causes us to rely, to rest, to trust. To use the airplane illustration above, another person may have the exactly same information (or LACK thereof!!!!) and yet does not board the plane. In his/her case, there is no faith. The irony is that faith, while active, is rest - and therefore passive.

2. Faith is a change in our heart and results in a change in our lives. "By their fruits you will know them." "Faith without works is dead." A good tree bears fruit. But don't press this TOO far! The "transformation" of faith is not complete (this side of heaven), we remain here always incomplete, always saint AND sinner at the same time. And while faith is constant, the opportunities are not. To insist, for example, that there must be tangible good works - helping the little old lady across the street - would be to insist that a baby cannot have faith and therefore cannot be saved. I think the thief on the cross had faith and salvation - as far as I can tell from the text, he did NOTHING after coming to faith. To make works a requirement is to proclaim he went to hell. The principle is sound, but it shouldn't be pressed too far.



Just my half cent....



Pax


- Josiah
 

Brighten04

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I had a hard time understanding what faith was too. And truth be told, I am still learning. But I have grown in trusting that God loves me.I trust that I belong to Him and that He will provide everything I need. It is funny how I believed in Him all of my life, but there was a time when I was confused about His love because of what I had been taught. Later in life I just decided that He does not tell lies and He keeps His promises. Right now faith is being sure of what we hope for and having confidence in what we do not see. That is a tall order. Why? Because we have been trained by the world. So our Father tells us to believe Him instead of believing the world. Romans 12:2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

IOW start thinking the Word of God. But in order to do that we have to read it and study it and remove our old worldly thoughts and replace them with the Word of God. Then we will have the mind of Christ.
1 Cor. 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
 
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psalms 91

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We are all given a measure of faith but wheter we kill it or grow it is up to us. Faith cometh by hearing the Word of God, eth denoting continual action. Our faith grows by the Word, and by our experience with God through situations. We can choose to grow it or to let it whither and die but we are all responsible for the faith we are given
 

Lamb

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So bill you are suggesting that experience grows faith besides God's Word?
 

Brighten04

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So bill you are suggesting that experience grows faith besides God's Word?

Lam, look at your life. I am sure there are times when you were in jams that you, yourself could not get out of but somehow you came out. You don't know how it happened. But, I bet you said something like thank God, or I was lucky, or some other things we call it. coincident, we say. But know this for a fact. There is no such thing as luck or coincidence to the children of God.I am convinced of that. And when we take the time and re-look at all the times God brought us through despite of the odds against us, we gain more confidence in His Word that says

Romans 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
 
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psalms 91

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Lam, look at your life. I am sure there are times when you were in jams that you, yourself could not get out of but somehow you came out. You don't know whow it happened. But, I bet you said something like thank God, or I was lucky, or some other things we call it. coincident, we say. But know this for a fact. There is no such thing as luck or coincidence to the children of God.I am convinced of that. And when we take the time and re-look ant all the times God brought us through despite of the odds against us, we gain more confidence in His Word that says

Romans 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Exactly!, if you have read that God prospers and provides but have never had to depend on it your faith will not be the same as someone who has lived off the provisioj of God and nothing else. Experience of Gods Word in action makes our faith immovable because we have experienced it and know for a fact that it is true.
 

Lamb

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The problem I have with what Bill said was this: We can choose to grow it or to let it whither and die but we are all responsible for the faith we are given.

He infers there is something within us that helps faith grow and that goes against the biblical statement that faith is a Gift and that we receive it by His Word. It's not something within me to cause it or to help it. God is the author and protector. The Holy Spirit guides me. It's not something I have within me to help it along.
 

Brighten04

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The problem I have with what Bill said was this: We can choose to grow it or to let it whither and die but we are all responsible for the faith we are given.

He infers there is something within us that helps faith grow and that goes against the biblical statement that faith is a Gift and that we receive it by His Word. It's not something within me to cause it or to help it. God is the author and protector. The Holy Spirit guides me. It's not something I have within me to help it along.

The Holy Ghost is within you Lam. He is your helper.
 

psalms 91

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The problem I have with what Bill said was this: We can choose to grow it or to let it whither and die but we are all responsible for the faith we are given.

He infers there is something within us that helps faith grow and that goes against the biblical statement that faith is a Gift and that we receive it by His Word. It's not something within me to cause it or to help it. God is the author and protector. The Holy Spirit guides me. It's not something I have within me to help it along.
This forum is an excellent example. Those who have experienced Gods healing are immovable in their faith, those who have not seem to have many questions. Experience of Gods word makes you firm in your faith, a lot firmer than those who havent experienced Gods healing or provision or any other area of Gods word. It is our faith that is given from God that we must grow, I know you dont like that but think of it this way if you and I are given the same measure of faith and you read your bible every day and grow in the Word and I dont ever read it do you think my faith will be the same as yours? Absolutely not
 

TurtleHare

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God is the one growing our faith so if people read their Bibles then it is because they were given faith in order to believe God and then we are led to continue to study and know him but we cannot take any credit for that can we? I don't take credit for what God is doing in my life.
 

ImaginaryDay2

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God is the author and protector. The Holy Spirit guides me. It's not something I have within me to help it along.

Agreed, but what happens if we rest on our laurels? Faith without works is dead. We are not completely cleansed of our inclination to sin once grace is received. For example, I've been sober for 21 years. But if I were to get drunk this evening, that would set off a chain of events that certainly would not "help (grace) along". I'd find the same grace in repentance, but repentance would not be necessary had I not acted contrary to the will of God.
 

Brighten04

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Agreed, but what happens if we rest on our laurels? Faith without works is dead. We are not completely cleansed of our inclination to sin once grace is received. For example, I've been sober for 21 years. But if I were to get drunk this evening, that would set off a chain of events that certainly would not "help (grace) along". I'd find the same grace in repentance, but repentance would not be necessary had I not acted contrary to the will of God.

It is the Holy Ghost within us that restrains us from sinning. Will He let us sin? Certainly, but the word says
Rom. 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

That means we train our minds to the Word and make the decision to agree with the Word of our Father. That is how we renew our minds . It takes practice, but we can do it with the help of the Holy Ghost. Without Him we could do nothing.
 
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