What is the right thing to do

[Jazzy]

What is the right thing to do when you know someone is having an affair and your close with both people in the relationship?

 

[Nazareth]

What is the right thing to do when you know someone is having an affair and your close with both people in the relationship?

The one betraying their partner isn't close enough to them to remain faithful.

An affair means the one having the affair has already left in every way but physically.

And if they're still sexually active with the betrayed partner the disservice is compounded by bringing the other person to them with every kiss, or sex act. Gross!

The cowardice is a shame. Leave! Don't cheat!

I've been there,knowing someone doing this very thing to their gf. And another person who did this to his wife.

I always regret staying quiet.

Tell the one being betrayed. They deserve to know they're living a lie. With a liar.

 

[ValleyGal]

Tell the one being betrayed. They deserve to know

I need to disagree with this, though much of what you say is true. There is only one moral imperative: Love is always right. So it's important to figure out what the most loving thing is in the situation. I'm not sure that ratting the betrayer out to the betrayed is very loving to either, but providing the betrayer an opportunity to come clean him/herself might be a better option.

It is not my place to tell the one who is betrayed, but the Bible gives specific guidelines for how to deal with sin. Before going to them, it's important to make sure you have no stake in the outcome, that you're motivated by love for both, and prepare for how you might support both, depending on the outcome of the discussion. Then you go to the one who is in sin. A good way to do this is be curious about whether what you heard is true, and what their intentions are for the marriage. You can gauge whether the person is repentant. If not, then you take a second person and again have the conversation. From there, you take it to church leadership, and so on.

 

[Lamb]

I need to disagree with this, though much of what you say is true. There is only one moral imperative: Love is always right. So it's important to figure out what the most loving thing is in the situation. I'm not sure that ratting the betrayer out to the betrayed is very loving to either, but providing the betrayer an opportunity to come clean him/herself might be a better option.

It is not my place to tell the one who is betrayed, but the Bible gives specific guidelines for how to deal with sin. Before going to them, it's important to make sure you have no stake in the outcome, that you're motivated by love for both, and prepare for how you might support both, depending on the outcome of the discussion. Then you go to the one who is in sin. A good way to do this is be curious about whether what you heard is true, and what their intentions are for the marriage. You can gauge whether the person is repentant. If not, then you take a second person and again have the conversation. From there, you take it to church leadership, and so on.

I agree with this.

For one thing, unless someone sees things for himself/herself, there is only a suspicion and that is gossip.

 

[tango]

I need to disagree with this, though much of what you say is true. There is only one moral imperative: Love is always right. So it's important to figure out what the most loving thing is in the situation. I'm not sure that ratting the betrayer out to the betrayed is very loving to either, but providing the betrayer an opportunity to come clean him/herself might be a better option.

It's certainly a tricky subject. If my wife was cheating on me I think I'd want to know, I just don't know that I'd want to sit down with a friend for a beer and be told "oh, by the way..."

It is not my place to tell the one who is betrayed, but the Bible gives specific guidelines for how to deal with sin. Before going to them, it's important to make sure you have no stake in the outcome, that you're motivated by love for both, and prepare for how you might support both, depending on the outcome of the discussion. Then you go to the one who is in sin. A good way to do this is be curious about whether what you heard is true, and what their intentions are for the marriage. You can gauge whether the person is repentant. If not, then you take a second person and again have the conversation. From there, you take it to church leadership, and so on.

One question here would be the matter of whose job it is to tell the person being betrayed. That doesn't mean it's automatically our job but (assuming the betrayal is confirmed and not just a rumor) I can easily see a situation where everybody decides it's for Someone Else to do the dirty work only to find that nobody does, leaving the aggrieved partner with an even stronger and wider sense of betrayal. It's one thing to find your partner is cheating on you but I can only imagine the additional hurt it would cause if you came to understand that a lot of people knew about it and not a single one of them told you.

What if the person concerned wasn't part of a church? The whole concept of escalating within the church ceases to be relevant.

 

[ValleyGal]

It is the responsibility of the betrayer to tell the betrayed. I think of my own role as that of a facilitator to make that happen so their relationship can either be repaired or dissolved. I'm not sure what I would do if the person didn't confess to their spouse. I would likely make that a "consequence" of not confessing it themselves, if it were indeed true. After all, the cheating spouse is putting the faithful spouse at risk of STIs and other health vulnerabilities.

If the cheating spouse isn't part of a church, I would likely still have the conversation up to maybe 3 times - the first to get curious and find out the truth of the matter and give them the opportunity to confess, the second to hold them accountable and also let them know that if they didn't feel safe, they could make an appointment together with a counsellor to do it and to also let them know that if they don't do it, that I would. The third would be to see whether they had the conversation and then I would call the faithful spouse. Of course, each of these is time-limited to minimize the potential harm to the faithful spouse.

It's a messy situation, but the faithful spouse has a right to know. It would be a very hard conversation to have, but I would prefer to know if it were me being cheated on, so I would do it only as a last resort.

 

[tango]

It is the responsibility of the betrayer to tell the betrayed. I think of my own role as that of a facilitator to make that happen so their relationship can either be repaired or dissolved. I'm not sure what I would do if the person didn't confess to their spouse. I would likely make that a "consequence" of not confessing it themselves, if it were indeed true. After all, the cheating spouse is putting the faithful spouse at risk of STIs and other health vulnerabilities.

If you knew for a fact that the betrayal was taking place and chose not to tell your friend, how would you respond when your friend asked you why you had kept it a secret?

If you choose to believe it is the responsibility of the betrayer to tell the betrayed you may obviously act on that belief but it's an opinion rather than a matter of fact. As you say, the cheating spouse puts the faithful (assuming the "betrayed" is truly faithful, of course) spouse at risk.

If the cheating spouse isn't part of a church, I would likely still have the conversation up to maybe 3 times - the first to get curious and find out the truth of the matter and give them the opportunity to confess, the second to hold them accountable and also let them know that if they didn't feel safe, they could make an appointment together with a counsellor to do it and to also let them know that if they don't do it, that I would. The third would be to see whether they had the conversation and then I would call the faithful spouse. Of course, each of these is time-limited to minimize the potential harm to the faithful spouse.

It's a messy situation, but the faithful spouse has a right to know. It would be a very hard conversation to have, but I would prefer to know if it were me being cheated on, so I would do it only as a last resort.

I can't imagine having to have that conversation with a close friend, and even more so if the unfaithful spouse was also a close friend. But I believe
it to be the right thing to do, if the unfaithful spouse refuses to do so.

 

[ValleyGal]

If you knew for a fact that the betrayal was taking place and chose not to tell your friend, how would you respond when your friend asked you why you had kept it a secret?

I would explain my rationale just the same as I did here. I would let her know that it was only fair to the marriage and to each of the parties to have the conversation between them as it is a marital matter, not a public matter. If the unfaithful partner did not have the conversation, it would likely contribute to her decision on what she wants to do about it (leave or stay). After all - and not that this is an excuse - there were probably issues leading up to it. We don't know all there is to know about friends' marriages. I had a friend who I thought was the epitome of a pastor's wife until I showed up unexpectedly. Pastor was upstairs and answered the door, while she was downstairs yelling at him and putting him down. He had to pick my jaw up from off the floor while he looked helplessly at me. It did not make me love her any less, and I continued to be her friend, but it is a good example that we have no idea what goes on behind closed doors.

During an initial conversation with the unfaithful spouse, it would be important to bring up the STI risk factor, and have that discussion. If he cares at all, even an iota about her, he will not engage sexually with her until he has been tested and he has come clean about his sin and she agrees to work on the marriage.

 

[tango]

Sure, if a spouse finds comfort in the arms of another the chances are that other is offering something their spouse can't or won't offer them. And if the spouse can't offer something that they feel they need it's possible the spouse has also given their blessing to them finding it elsewhere, with or without conditions attached. As you say, we don't know the details of the workings of other peoples' marriages.

That said, I think that if an unfaithful spouse knows that their indiscretions are known and refuses to talk to their (presumably) faithful spouse about it there surely comes a point when it's time for someone else to approach the faithful spouse. Whether that is intended to protect them from the STI issue and/or give them chance to emotionally prepare for the storm that may be approaching is secondary. Otherwise you potentially have an issue where you're describing someone as a friend while taking no steps to protect them from a very real and credible risk you know they are facing but they may not know about. Although it's a much thornier issue and a much harder conversation to have, is it really so different in principle to letting a friend know they are missing a roof tile? They may already know about it, they may have scheduled someone to come and fix it, but equally they may not know about it in which case by telling them you are saving them the consequences of not addressing it before the next downpour.

 

[ValleyGal]

an issue where you're describing someone as a friend while taking no steps to protect them from a very real and credible risk you know they are facing but they may not know about.

But I would be taking steps. I would be speaking with the unfaithful spouse and having some very difficult conversations about marriage, risk, sin, vows. Doing it this way is not the easy way out. It would be much easier to go to my friend and let them know their husband/partner is a cheating sob who doesn't deserve her. But because my friend presumably loves her husband, I would want to protect their marriage for her sake at the same time as protecting her health.

Although it's a much thornier issue and a much harder conversation to have, is it really so different in principle to letting a friend know they are missing a roof tile?

Unless you're aware of some new kinky thing involving sex on a roof tile that I'm not aware of, YES! it's different! You're not in a relationship with a roof tile. You don't love a roof tile. You've never made a vow to a roof tile. Ratting on a roof tile isn't going to possibly damage your friendship or their relationship.

I do think it's important to be time-managed. I could have a conversation with the unfaithful spouse and give them two days to have the conversation, and then follow up in the two days. It is a tricky maneuver to maintain a relationship that is respectful enough that the guilty party will cooperate without defense, and if need be, to have the conversation with the friend in a way that she will not become defensive of her husband and distance from the friendship.

Bottom line is that I think the steps involved are dependent on the quality of relationships you have with the spouses and where loyalties lie, among many less important factors. I know where I would want to start, and that might change for you based on what and who you value in the situation.

 

[tango]

But I would be taking steps. I would be speaking with the unfaithful spouse and having some very difficult conversations about marriage, risk, sin, vows. Doing it this way is not the easy way out. It would be much easier to go to my friend and let them know their husband/partner is a cheating sob who doesn't deserve her. But because my friend presumably loves her husband, I would want to protect their marriage for her sake at the same time as protecting her health.

Taking steps is great - I'm not saying you shouldn't be doing that. There's also a world of difference between "hey, your spouse is a cheating slut and you should throw them out" and a multitude of far gentler ways of broaching the subject. Sadly it's hard to suggest to a friend that they might like to tone down the bedroom activities without giving at least some indication as to why.

Unless you're aware of some new kinky thing involving sex on a roof tile that I'm not aware of, YES! it's different! You're not in a relationship with a roof tile. You don't love a roof tile. You've never made a vow to a roof tile. Ratting on a roof tile isn't going to possibly damage your friendship or their relationship.

Of course you don't have a relationship with a roof tile but the missing roof tile presents a very real risk of serious harm/loss just as an unfaithful spouse presents a risk of spreading a disease that may not be treatable. At least the damage caused by a missing roof tile can be repaired.

I do think it's important to be time-managed. I could have a conversation with the unfaithful spouse and give them two days to have the conversation, and then follow up in the two days. It is a tricky maneuver to maintain a relationship that is respectful enough that the guilty party will cooperate without defense, and if need be, to have the conversation with the friend in a way that she will not become defensive of her husband and distance from the friendship.

I think this is the part we agree on (I'm not sure how much we're actually disagreeing on here) - you're describing a process where you talk to the guilty party and, assuming they are guilty, give them time to confess before you do it for them. I don't think there's much support here for just launching straight into talking with the betrayed spouse without bothering with anything like checking facts or at least giving the guilty spouse chance to come clean.

 

[ValleyGal]

(I'm not sure how much we're actually disagreeing on here)

I think we mostly agree, and it's been a lively conversation.

assuming they are guilty

I'm not so sure I made any assumptions, but perhaps you have made one about my initial discussion with the guilty party. After all, that is the intent of the original discussion with the guilty party - to find the facts (and I like to think I'm a relatively good lie detector) and give them an opportunity to own up to it. In my initial post on this thread, I wrote:

A good way to do this is be curious about whether what you heard is true, and what their intentions are for the marriage.

Whatever you would do, be motivated by love and behave in ways that will be perceived by all parties as loving.

 

[tango]

I think we mostly agree, and it's been a lively conversation.

It has, you have some good points here.

I'm not so sure I made any assumptions, but perhaps you have made one about my initial discussion with the guilty party. After all, that is the intent of the original discussion with the guilty party - to find the facts (and I like to think I'm a relatively good lie detector) and give them an opportunity to own up to it. In my initial post on this thread, I wrote:

Sure, I didn't mean to say that you had made assumptions, merely to note that when a third party hears about it the chances are some assumptions will be made. Even if the assumptions are nothing more than that an allegation is true, or that the apparently betrayed spouse is unaware and unconsenting to an arrangement etc.

Whatever you would do, be motivated by love and behave in ways that will be perceived by all parties as loving.

Very much so. In a situation like that it's hard not to take sides but without all the facts taking sides isn't necessarily helpful. Often things aren't what they seem when relationships come apart at the seams.