What or Who is the Church?

[Lees]

lees



Yep the Head of His Body the Church, so if is about Him, its also about His Church, for they are One



Sure it does, if the Head was in the OT so was the Body



Im good I looked the word build up, and gave you my findings, you dont accept it, fine with me

I don't accept your finding because you are mistaken. As I showed you.

Lees

 

[Lees]

lees



Thats incorrect, the saved people were Israel but not the nation of israel. Jacob was Israel and his Spiritual seed before the nation was formulated



The nation did, but the people Israel didnt



In Gen 3:15 the seed of the woman



Only for the nation of Israel, not the people Israel, them God foreknew in Christ before the foundation, and predestinated them to the image of Christ.

That is incorrect as I have showed you.

Lees

 

[Lees]

There is only 1 church, 1 denomination

(Rev. 2-3) disagrees with you.

Lees

 

[brightfame52]

No, you're wrong as I have showed you.

Lees

No Im right, you are wrong

 

[brightfame52]

How are they the same event?

Lees

Easily, they the same !

 

[brightfame52]

You didn't answer my question.

Lees

What question ?

 

[brightfame52]

I don't accept your finding because you are mistaken. As I showed you.

Lees

Thats on you !

 

[brightfame52]

That is incorrect as I have showed you.

Lees

Its correct I showed you

 

[Lees]

What question ?

My statement to Cassia in post #(46) was that salvation is always based upon Christ but that doesn't mean all are part of the Body and Bride of Christ.

I then gave reasons as proof of that showing the various Gospels preached at different times which are not the Gospel the Church preaches today. But you ignored them.

You respond to my statement to Cassia in post #(55) saying, "But it does, even the OT prophet John realized that in John 3:29" But, (John 3:29) doesn't say anything about all the saved making up the Body and Bride of Christ. John just identifies Jesus as the Bridegoom and himself as the friend of the bridegroom.

Thus I asked two questions in post #(60).

1.) How does the prophet John realize that?

2.) How is the friend of the Bridegroom the Bride?

Again, just to clarify, question #(1) is 'how does John realize that all the saved of all time are part of the Bride and Body of Christ'? Becasue John says nothing about that . It's only you that are saying that.

To clarify question #(2): You are saying John realized that all saved of all time are part of the Body of Christ. You are saying John realized this. But, why then is John the friend of the Bridegroom? Have you ever been to a wedding where the friend of the bridegroom and the bride are the same?

In other words, you answered nothing.

Lees

 

[Lees]

Easily, they the same !

I said to Cassius in post #(56) that I see the Rapture of the Church and the Second Coming of Christ as two different events occurring at two different times.

I identified the time of the Rapture as occurring before the 7 year Tribulation. I identified the Second Coming of Christ as occurring after the Tribulation period.

I also made the statement that if the Rapture occurs at the end of the Tribulation and is the same event as the Second Coming, then we need not look for Christ at this time. We just need to look for the Tribulation period which would have to come first.

You respond in post #(68) that I am wrong about that. You say the Rapture and Second Coming are the same event.

Thus my question in post #(79), How are these the same event?

Your response in post #(85) is "Easily, they the same". Which is again, no answer to my question.

So, again, How is the Rapture and the Second Coming the same event?

Lees

 

[brightfame52]

lees

My statement to Cassia in post #(46) was that salvation is always based upon Christ but that doesn't mean all are part of the Body and Bride of Christ.

Yes it does mean that, He is the Saviour of His Body Eph 5:23

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

I then gave reasons as proof of that showing the various Gospels preached at different times which are not the Gospel the Church preaches today. But you ignored them

Only one gospel, centered in the Person and Work of Jesus Christ, from the beginning to the end !

1.) How does the prophet John realize that?

2.) How is the friend of the Bridegroom the Bride?

I answered those questions. John knows by revelation, and the friend of the bridegroom is part of the bride of the bridegroom. The Bride is also His friends Jn 15:13


Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

This great Love is for His Bride Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

This same great Love is for His Church Eph 2:4

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

The bride is the seed of Abraham which John was part of Isa 41:8


But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

 

[brightfame52]

lees

I said to Cassius in post #(56) that I see the Rapture of the Church and the Second Coming of Christ as two different events occurring at two different times.

You can say anything, you provided no proof, also they both occur at the same time. When He comes again the second time, He will rapture, catch up His Church to meet Him in the clouds 1 Thess 4:15-17

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming[ parousia] of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

That caught up is the rapture, and it occurs at His Parouisa !

Jesus describes the identical event at His second coming Matt 24:29-31

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Notice the Trump of God in 1 Thess 4:16 at His coming, and the Trumpet at His coming in Matt 24:31 and this coming is the same Parouisa Matt 24:27

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be

So the rapture and the second coming are at the same time according to scripture. Nothing you can do but either admit you have been deceived, or go on denying it, saying oh that doesnt mean that.

So, again, How is the Rapture and the Second Coming the same event?

You the one making a statement without any scripture proof, which is hypocritical. You should have provided scripture for your assertion, then challenge someone to provide scripture for their views, however you failed to do that.

 

[Lees]

lees



Yes it does mean that, He is the Saviour of His Body Eph 5:23

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.



Only one gospel, centered in the Person and Work of Jesus Christ, from the beginning to the end !




I answered those questions. John knows by revelation, and the friend of the bridegroom is part of the bride of the bridegroom. The Bride is also His friends Jn 15:13


Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

This great Love is for His Bride Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

This same great Love is for His Church Eph 2:4

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

The bride is the seed of Abraham which John was part of Isa 41:8


But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

That Christ is the Saviour of the Church, His Body and Bride, is not the question. My statement is that not all believers of all time are part of the Church or Body of Christ. Just because all are saved by Christ's sacrifice doesn't make them all part of the church.

That Israel is of Abraham doesn't make Israel the Church. Israel was known. The Church is a mystery unknown until the New Testament era, and began at Pentecost. (Eph. 3:3-5)

And I listed the various Gospels.

Lees

 

[Lees]

lees



You can say anything, you provided no proof, also they both occur at the same time. When He comes again the second time, He will rapture, catch up His Church to meet Him in the clouds 1 Thess 4:15-17

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming[ parousia] of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

That caught up is the rapture, and it occurs at His Parouisa !

Jesus describes the identical event at His second coming Matt 24:29-31

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Notice the Trump of God in 1 Thess 4:16 at His coming, and the Trumpet at His coming in Matt 24:31 and this coming is the same Parouisa Matt 24:27

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be

So the rapture and the second coming are at the same time according to scripture. Nothing you can do but either admit you have been deceived, or go on denying it, saying oh that doesnt mean that.




You the one making a statement without any scripture proof, which is hypocritical. You should have provided scripture for your assertion, then challenge someone to provide scripture for their views, however you failed to do that.

Not true. I said that if the Rapture and Second Coming are the same event then there is no need to anticipate the Second Coming of Jesus. We just need to watch for the Tribulation period. You just ignored it.

The term 'parousia' describes 'a coming'. Only the context where it is used describes which coming.

(1 Thess. 4:15-17) describes the coming of Christ to meet the saints in the air. The Rapture.

(Matt. 24) is describing the Second Coming of Christ to the earth.

When you combine these two comings, as you do, you make the Church go through the Tribulation. And the Tribulation is the 'Time of Jacobs trouble'. (Jer. 7:14) Not the Churches trouble.

The use of trumpet in both events doesn't mean they are the same event.

Nothing is said of the saints at the Rapture being gathered by any angels. (Matt 24:31) We will be meeting the Lord in the air. (1 Thess. 4:17).

Lees

 

[brightfame52]

That Christ is the Saviour of the Church, His Body and Bride, is not the question. My statement is that not all believers of all time are part of the Church or Body of Christ. Just because all are saved by Christ's sacrifice doesn't make them all part of the church.

That Israel is of Abraham doesn't make Israel the Church. Israel was known. The Church is a mystery unknown until the New Testament era, and began at Pentecost. (Eph. 3:3-5)

And I listed the various Gospels.

Lees

Thats all Christ is to save. There is no Salvation for anyone outside of Christ ! And thats Israel Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Thats Gods Promise of Salvation, That Israel is not national ethnic Israel, its His Body the Church !

 

[brightfame52]

Not true. I said that if the Rapture and Second Coming are the same event then there is no need to anticipate the Second Coming of Jesus. We just need to watch for the Tribulation period. You just ignored it.

The term 'parousia' describes 'a coming'. Only the context where it is used describes which coming.

(1 Thess. 4:15-17) describes the coming of Christ to meet the saints in the air. The Rapture.

(Matt. 24) is describing the Second Coming of Christ to the earth.

When you combine these two comings, as you do, you make the Church go through the Tribulation. And the Tribulation is the 'Time of Jacobs trouble'. (Jer. 7:14) Not the Churches trouble.

The use of trumpet in both events doesn't mean they are the same event.

Nothing is said of the saints at the Rapture being gathered by any angels. (Matt 24:31) We will be meeting the Lord in the air. (1 Thess. 4:17).

Lees

I have shown you they are the same, but unfortunately you cant see the light. Unless God gives you repentance on this matter, you will have to find out when He comes.

 

[Lees]

Thats all Christ is to save. There is no Salvation for anyone outside of Christ ! And thats Israel Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Thats Gods Promise of Salvation, That Israel is not national ethnic Israel, its His Body the Church !

Again, all salvation is the result of Christ's sacrifice. That doesn't mean all that are saved are part of the Church. (Is. 45:17) does speak to Israel. But it doesn't speak to the Church. Again, you ignore (Eph. 3:3-5)

That Israel is not national but is the Church, is just your opinion. Which you fail to prove.

Lees

 

[Lees]

I have shown you they are the same, but unfortunately you cant see the light. Unless God gives you repentance on this matter, you will have to find out when He comes.

You haven't shown anything. In other words...you don't know what you're talking about. You have no answers for anything. You show you are oblivious to any time table. And a a time table is important when dealing with 'Last Things' in the Bible.

You live in a make-believe world of your own making. And when required to prove that 'world'...you can't. And so those who disagree with you, according to you, must repent.

How utterly stupid.

Lees

 

[brightfame52]

Again, all salvation is the result of Christ's sacrifice. That doesn't mean all that are saved are part of the Church. (Is. 45:17) does speak to Israel. But it doesn't speak to the Church. Again, you ignore (Eph. 3:3-5)

That Israel is not national but is the Church, is just your opinion. Which you fail to prove.

Lees

Thats it, only Christs Church/Israel is saved !

 

[brightfame52]

You haven't shown anything. In other words...you don't know what you're talking about. You have no answers for anything. You show you are oblivious to any time table. And a a time table is important when dealing with 'Last Things' in the Bible.

You live in a make-believe world of your own making. And when required to prove that 'world'...you can't. And so those who disagree with you, according to you, must repent.

How utterly stupid.

Lees

Yeah I did, you have rejected it. So the only thing left is either God opens up your understanding, or you will find out at the 2 nd coming.