Is it the responsibility of the child

[Jazzy]

Is it the responsibility of the child to take care of their elderly parent/s? Why or why not?

 

[Lamb]

Yes, family has a responsibility for one another. In the bible, the family and community understanding was more prominent than today's modern ME mentality.

 

[tango]

Is it the responsibility of the child to take care of their elderly parent/s? Why or why not?

It seems to make a lot of sense, to the extent that it's practical. The trouble is these days when it's pretty much required for everyone to work full-time and then some it becomes very difficult to actually care for someone with specific needs.

It's one thing to let elderly parents come to stay but when they start dealing with serious mobility issues or worse it may be that they need more extensive care than a working couple can realistically provide. There's also the issue of geography - if an ailing parent doesn't want to leave their home area and their children don't want to leave their areas it becomes impossible.

Throw in some of the uglier aspects of mental degeneration (dementia etc) and caring for someone isn't a trivial undertaking.

 

[Josiah]

It's the responsibility of parents to support themselves in their later years.... Thus the need to save/invest, paid off debt, and often live below their means. My parents are now both retired - and make more money than they did when they worked, even without taping into well over $500K investments. Why? They have social security and Dad has a generous pension which together pay more than they made. They made sure to have house paid off years before retiring and to be debt free. And those investments are there for emergencies. They planned carefully.... invested generously.... and yes were blessed to work for a company with a very generous retirement program (many don't). BTW, they also both have long-term care insurance so that if they need medical are in some kind of facility, that would be paid for 100%.

BUT they were blessed (in addition to being very responsible). Retiring debt free and generously investing meant they always lived BELOW their means. This just doesn't always apply.... very responsible people may still find themselves unable to support themselves in retirement. And yes, there, I think the "first line" of support are the kids. Whenever possible.

But in any case, WE need to plan so that OUR kids won't need to support us. And that starts at college graduation.


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[tango]

This is the sort of thing that's great in theory but increasingly difficult to actually do.

My parents came from a generation where it was not only financially viable but normal for the father to work and the mother to stay home to raise the kids. One man earning a more-or-less average salary could fund a mortgage and raise a family. Maybe not living in the lap of luxury but possible. That generation enjoyed a pension based on some fraction of their final salary.

I'm aware with people of my generation that those who are doing reasonably well can still manage on one salary but many cannot. I was lucky enough to buy a house before the prices went stratospheric, which bought me the kind of security the next generation can only dream of having. Most people of my generation have pensions based on defined payments into a plan with no guarantees of how much it will pay out when we retire. People my generation could mostly look forward to some kind of inheritance when parents passed - even if it wasn't a king's ransom it would be enough to help pay off a mortgage or similar.

Now college tuition is higher than ever, house prices rise faster than earnings and more and more couples find that unless they both work they can't make ends meet. It's not even as if they seek out a second income so they can enjoy exotic vacations or a huge house, if they have any silly ideas about having even a second bedroom so they can think about having a child they need two salaries, which in turn makes it harder to raise the child because they both need to be at work.

When we tell kids they should go to college and take on huge debt, then expect them to repay the debt while also paying sky-high prices for somewhere to live while earnings aren't keeping up, and then also expecting them to pay for insurance to cover their debts in case they die or are unable to work while also paying into a pension plan in case they make it to a ripe old age, it's hardly surprising people start to wonder why they even bother trying. For good measure there's now more posturing about the unfairness of inheritance and the increased likelihood that elderly parents will be penniless by the time they die because the price of geriatric care is so high.

 

[Lamb]

It's the responsibility of parents to support themselves in their later years.... Thus the need to save/invest, paid off debt, and often live below their means. My parents are now both retired - and make more money than they did when they worked, even without taping into well over $500K investments. Why? They have social security and Dad has a generous pension which together pay more than they made. They made sure to have house paid off years before retiring and to be debt free. And those investments are there for emergencies. They planned carefully.... invested generously.... and yes were blessed to work for a company with a very generous retirement program (many don't). BTW, they also both have long-term care insurance so that if they need medical are in some kind of facility, that would be paid for 100%.

BUT they were blessed (in addition to being very responsible). Retiring debt free and generously investing meant they always lived BELOW their means. This just doesn't always apply.... very responsible people may still find themselves unable to support themselves in retirement. And yes, there, I think the "first line" of support are the kids. Whenever possible.

But in any case, WE need to plan so that OUR kids won't need to support us. And that starts at college graduation.


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And what if the parents weren't so fortunate to have really good paying jobs? What if persistent illnesses prevented them from saving a lot of money for the future? Should kids blame them for a hard life and say oh well? That's not right. Not everyone will make over a hundred grand a year, even if they have two people working. A illness can take away a life savings in just one hospital bill, even with insurance.

 

[Josiah]

And what if the parents weren't so fortunate to have really good paying jobs? What if persistent illnesses prevented them from saving a lot of money for the future? Should kids blame them for a hard life and say oh well?

Of course not, which is why I noted that kids ARE to help as they can in those situations.

But I think the focus should be not on how the older generation came up short but how WE can attempt to avoid that. My parents are doing well, yes because they were blessed but ALSO because they lived below their means, paid off debt asap, invested generously. They could have had a bigger nicer house... they could have bought a Mercedes but bought Toyota's... they bought long term care insurance.... What I learned is that we NEED to plan for retirement not when we turn 60 but when we graduate from college. I don't want my boys to have to support me (as I don't have to support my parents). Now, YES - absolutely - something could happen, of no fault of mine - and I hope my boys will be there for us. BUT instead of looking to possible bad luck, our focus needs to be on being prepared.



.

 

[Lamb]

Of course not, which is why I noted that kids ARE to help as they can in those situations.

But I think the focus should be not on how the older generation came up short but how WE can attempt to avoid that. My parents are doing well, yes because they were blessed but ALSO because they lived below their means, paid off debt asap, invested generously. They could have had a bigger nicer house... they could have bought a Mercedes but bought Toyota's... they bought long term care insurance.... What I learned is that we NEED to plan for retirement not when we turn 60 but when we graduate from college. I don't want my boys to have to support me (as I don't have to support my parents). Now, YES - absolutely - something could happen, of no fault of mine - and I hope my boys will be there for us. BUT instead of looking to possible bad luck, our focus needs to be on being prepared.



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Part of taking care of elderly parents isn't just financial.

When my mom passed away 2 years ago, I offered for my dad to move in with us. He declined because he still wants to live alone and I honored his wish. But if it comes a time when he can no longer live alone, then it's my responsibility to see to it that he's cared for. That could mean having him live with us until his dying day. That's honoring a father.

 

[tango]

Part of taking care of elderly parents isn't just financial.

When my mom passed away 2 years ago, I offered for my dad to move in with us. He declined because he still wants to live alone and I honored his wish. But if it comes a time when he can no longer live alone, then it's my responsibility to see to it that he's cared for. That could mean having him live with us until his dying day. That's honoring a father.

This reminds me of my late great-uncle who was very dear to me. When he was old and infirm my parents tried to take him in so we could look after him but he didn't want to leave the area he lived. It was five hours drive on a good day, so looking after him there wasn't an option.

 

[Lamb]

This reminds me of my late great-uncle who was very dear to me. When he was old and infirm my parents tried to take him in so we could look after him but he didn't want to leave the area he lived. It was five hours drive on a good day, so looking after him there wasn't an option.

How infirm was he? Was it physical or mental? There are times when it gets to a point where you can't let them live alone. My mother-in-law became a danger to herself and I told my husband she could live with us, but he feared she would do something bad at our house. His sisters said it was time for her to go to Assisted Living because she needed around the clock care. It was easier doing that than trying to trust someone at her house. Now, if she hadn't had a really good insurance payout from her husband's death, there is no way she would have been able to afford it. In that case, I would have become her caretaker (some states pay you to do that) and she would have lived with us.

 

[tango]

How infirm was he? Was it physical or mental? There are times when it gets to a point where you can't let them live alone. My mother-in-law became a danger to herself and I told my husband she could live with us, but he feared she would do something bad at our house. His sisters said it was time for her to go to Assisted Living because she needed around the clock care. It was easier doing that than trying to trust someone at her house. Now, if she hadn't had a really good insurance payout from her husband's death, there is no way she would have been able to afford it. In that case, I would have become her caretaker (some states pay you to do that) and she would have lived with us.

He was mentally sharp pretty much until the end, he just refused to leave the area he loved.

I'm sure some people can provide comprehensive care to older relatives but I think the attitude that the children need to do it, whatever it takes, is overly simplistic to the point of being insulting to the child/ren who simply aren't able to offer the level of care that is needed.

Back in the days when family members never moved far from where they were born and raised it would have been much easier for siblings to share elder care. Now with people living longer and with conditions that require ever-more extensive care, and with family members scattered further, it seems like a theoretical ideal that often just isn't possible. Throw in the way most couples need both to work full-time just to pay the bills and it becomes even more difficult.

 

[Lamb]

He was mentally sharp pretty much until the end, he just refused to leave the area he loved.

I'm sure some people can provide comprehensive care to older relatives but I think the attitude that the children need to do it, whatever it takes, is overly simplistic to the point of being insulting to the child/ren who simply aren't able to offer the level of care that is needed.

Back in the days when family members never moved far from where they were born and raised it would have been much easier for siblings to share elder care. Now with people living longer and with conditions that require ever-more extensive care, and with family members scattered further, it seems like a theoretical ideal that often just isn't possible. Throw in the way most couples need both to work full-time just to pay the bills and it becomes even more difficult.

And yet, how can we simply abandon those who brought us into the world and cared for us until adulthood (for most people...but these days the family unit is being torn apart by modern society)? We, as sinful humans, love to make excuses as to why we can't do things. But if it's truly important, we'll try hard to make things work.

 

[Lees]

My opinion:

Parents don't want to be taken care of by their children. That was their job, not the kids job. That is a legitimate response on their part.

The problem: The medical profession has advanced to the degree that it can keep old people alive past the time when they should have died. They, the medical profession, of course do it for money. Working on family's feelings and keeping the money flowing for pills and hospitals, etc. etc. They must keep that cash cow alive. Milking it for all it's worth.

Here is where the parents, especially the Christians, should make a stand. Quit trying to stay alive forever down here. Quit letting the medical profession use you. A pill for this. A pill for that. A pill to counteract the side affects of the pill for this and that. They amputate your toes. Then your feet. Then your legs. Don't you get the picture?

All they are doing is making money off of you. All you're doing is making life miserable for your family.

Don't say I just can't leave now. There will never be a time when you say it is time. You will always regrett having to leave loved ones behind. But that time is coming anyway.

So, my opinion is: parents should spare the children that decision by quit trying to live forever down here.

Lees

 

[tango]

And yet, how can we simply abandon those who brought us into the world and cared for us until adulthood (for most people...but these days the family unit is being torn apart by modern society)? We, as sinful humans, love to make excuses as to why we can't do things. But if it's truly important, we'll try hard to make things work.

That's a very good point, although obviously it assumes that the elderly person wants to be looked after by their younger relatives. In the case of my late great-uncle he didn't want that at all - he wanted to stay in the area he knew and loved. He had other relatives who were closer in terms of their blood relation but we were the ones willing to make some pretty major sacrifices to give him a place to stay because he was special to us.

Sometimes there are just lots of excuses. Sometimes there are valid reasons. I guess that's a matter for someone's conscience.

 

[tango]

My opinion:

Parents don't want to be taken care of by their children. That was their job, not the kids job. That is a legitimate response on their part.

The problem: The medical profession has advanced to the degree that it can keep old people alive past the time when they should have died. They, the medical profession, of course do it for money. Working on family's feelings and keeping the money flowing for pills and hospitals, etc. etc. They must keep that cash cow alive. Milking it for all it's worth.

Here is where the parents, especially the Christians, should make a stand. Quit trying to stay alive forever down here. Quit letting the medical profession use you. A pill for this. A pill for that. A pill to counteract the side affects of the pill for this and that. They amputate your toes. Then your feet. Then your legs. Don't you get the picture?

All they are doing is making money off of you. All you're doing is making life miserable for your family.

Don't say I just can't leave now. There will never be a time when you say it is time. You will always regrett having to leave loved ones behind. But that time is coming anyway.

So, my opinion is: parents should spare the children that decision by quit trying to live forever down here.

Lees

You make some valid points about the medical profession and their cash cows but I have to ask about "all you're doing is making life miserable for your family". Are you so miserable about having older relatives still alive? Maybe there are times that the best option is to accept someone is at the end of their life but that's not necessarily the case every time.

 

[Lees]

You make some valid points about the medical profession and their cash cows but I have to ask about "all you're doing is making life miserable for your family". Are you so miserable about having older relatives still alive? Maybe there are times that the best option is to accept someone is at the end of their life but that's not necessarily the case every time.

No, I'm not miserable having older relatives still alive. But I recognize, and have experienced the burden, though death made it a short one.

Yes, I know every situation is different. But when you have one who is elderly living with you, and you have to administer a whole handful of pills each day, at different times a day, is that living? I don't think anyone wants to live to the point they have to be bathed by others.

My point is: we as Christians should not be afraid to go when it's time to go. And we should not try to hang around, just to breathe one more breath of air, that medicine can provide.

Lees

 

[tango]

No, I'm not miserable having older relatives still alive. But I recognize, and have experienced the burden, though death made it a short one.

Yes, I know every situation is different. But when you have one who is elderly living with you, and you have to administer a whole handful of pills each day, at different times a day, is that living? I don't think anyone wants to live to the point they have to be bathed by others.

I'm not sure that's a decision any of us can make for someone else. I've known people who were very infirm who seemed at peace, and I've known others (including family members) who made the decision to stop treatment for their conditions because they decided what they had wasn't a life worth living any more.

My point is: we as Christians should not be afraid to go when it's time to go. And we should not try to hang around, just to breathe one more breath of air, that medicine can provide.

Lees

I wouldn't argue that there's no reason for us to be afraid when it's our time, I'm just leery of an assumption that needing medical treatment means it's our time. Each individual or family can decide whether the treatment is worth it, trying to make it into a simple yes or no situation from outside isn't a game I'd want to be playing.

 

[Lees]

I'm not sure that's a decision any of us can make for someone else. I've known people who were very infirm who seemed at peace, and I've known others (including family members) who made the decision to stop treatment for their conditions because they decided what they had wasn't a life worth living any more.



I wouldn't argue that there's no reason for us to be afraid when it's our time, I'm just leery of an assumption that needing medical treatment means it's our time. Each individual or family can decide whether the treatment is worth it, trying to make it into a simple yes or no situation from outside isn't a game I'd want to be playing.

I'm not asking for a decison one can make for someone else.

You, need to make the decision as a Christian and eldely person.

It's you decision. Go ahead and try and live forever down here and make your children miserable, trying to keep the old hide alive.

Lees

 

[tango]

I'm not asking for a decison one can make for someone else.

You, need to make the decision as a Christian and eldely person.

It's you decision. Go ahead and try and live forever down here and make your children miserable, trying to keep the old hide alive.

Lees

You're constantly going back to "make your children miserable".

Maybe the kids would rather Dad stuck around a while longer. Let's not be assuming everybody is wishing that old Dad would hurry up and pop his clogs because they just want him gone.

As with so much else it's a balancing act. Too far one way and we see endless resources being soaked up to keep someone alive when they don't even know who they are and what's around them. Too far the other way and Dad gets bumped off at a handy euthanasia clinic because he sneezed a couple of times over dinner. Hey, let's get our hands on the inheritance before care home fees do, right?

 

[Lees]

You're constantly going back to "make your children miserable".

Maybe the kids would rather Dad stuck around a while longer. Let's not be assuming everybody is wishing that old Dad would hurry up and pop his clogs because they just want him gone.

As with so much else it's a balancing act. Too far one way and we see endless resources being soaked up to keep someone alive when they don't even know who they are and what's around them. Too far the other way and Dad gets bumped off at a handy euthanasia clinic because he sneezed a couple of times over dinner. Hey, let's get our hands on the inheritance before care home fees do, right?

That's because it is a burdensome task bringing misery with it.

It's not a balancing act. It's just an individual decision.

Lees