Catholic Eucharistic Miracles

[Faith]

I just received a Catholic magazine in the mail today that talks about the Eucharist and to some degree, Eucharistic Miracles. As a LCMS convert I must admit that the miracles make me question my choice in converting. The article mentions the miracles of Sokolka, Poland; Lanciano, Italy; as well as others. There are probably hundreds of them with many changing to human blood and or human heart tissue.
If Lutheranism is right then what are these miracles?

 

[Lamb]

The Eucharist itself is a miracle.

Are you feeling that if you changed to Roman Catholic that something would happen to improve your life?

My father-in-law was a devout Catholic since childhood and died from cancer (it was very painful for him) when he was in his 50s. Does that answer your question?

 

[Albion]

I just received a Catholic magazine in the mail today that talks about the Eucharist and to some degree, Eucharistic Miracles. As a LCMS convert I must admit that the miracles make me question my choice in converting. The article mentions the miracles of Sokolka, Poland; Lanciano, Italy; as well as others. There are probably hundreds of them with many changing to human blood and or human heart tissue.
If Lutheranism is right then what are these miracles?

Some people would say all such exotic "miracles" are real and were manifested to the people who needed to have something magical in order to believe. Others say that they occurred in lands that, at the time, were losing their faith. Some would point out that similar miracles happened in the midst of Christian but non-Catholic populations. Still others point out that, in the case of some of her most famous miracles, the (RCC) church 'doctored' the event in the telling, and it's that altered version which has endured because it's the Catholic Church that keeps talking and writing about these particular events. And finally, there are many other alleged miracles that the Catholic Church itself has refused after much examination to certify as true but yet ordinary churchgoers want to believe them real and so treat them as such. There is some truth to all of those explanations.

 

[Faith]

When I was Catholic we had a Eucharistic Miracles display set up at my church, documenting some or all of them and the stories behind them. Some of them sounded plausible to me, while some were so outlandish.

 

[Faith]

Some people would say all such exotic "miracles" are real and were manifested to the people who needed to have something magical in order to believe. Others say that they occurred in lands that, at the time, were losing their faith. Some would point out that similar miracles happened in the midst of Christian but non-Catholic populations. Still others point out that, in the case of some of her most famous miracles, the (RCC) church 'doctored' the event in the telling, and it's that altered version which has endured because it's the Catholic Church that keeps talking and writing about these particular events. And finally, there are many other alleged miracles that the Catholic Church itself has refused after much examination to certify as true but yet ordinary churchgoers want to believe them real and so treat them as such. There is some truth to all of those explanations.

IF they are real why does this only happen in the RCC and not Lutheran?

 

[Faith]

The Eucharist itself is a miracle.

Are you feeling that if you changed to Roman Catholic that something would happen to improve your life?

My father-in-law was a devout Catholic since childhood and died from cancer (it was very painful for him) when he was in his 50s. Does that answer your question?

Maybe. Kind of……

 

[Faith]

My dad was a Catholic his entire life and passed from pancreatic cancer at 64.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Are you feeling that if you changed to Roman Catholic that something would happen to improve your life?

Believing what is true improves one's life.

 

[MoreCoffee]

My father-in-law was a devout Catholic since childhood and died from cancer (it was very painful for him) when he was in his 50s. Does that answer your question?

How would a reply like that answer a question about Eucharistic miracles?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Some people would say all such exotic "miracles" are real and were manifested to the people who needed to have something magical in order to believe.

Miracles and magic are distinct things. The former (miracles) are given by God while the latter may have other sources.

 

[Lamb]

Believing what is true improves one's life.

Unless one believes a lie.

How would a reply like that answer a question about Eucharistic miracles?

My reply showed that not all devout Catholics have miracles happen for them.

 

[Albion]

IF they are real why does this only happen in the RCC and not Lutheran?

I thought that I'd covered that in the list of "answers" I gave in the earlier reply.

First off, it's not the case that miracles are absent from all non-Catholic denominations, although the magical explanation of the Eucharist that the Roman Catholic Church emphasizes (almost alone among Christian churches in this regard) would seem to explain why "Eucharistic miracles" are prominent in the RCC rather than other kinds of miracles.

No one knows for sure what the explanation is for the phenomenon you are interested in, but all the facts I referred to in the earlier post bear upon it and affect different churches and peoples differently.

If these supposed miracles aren't what they're cracked up to be, then Lutherans ought not have any regrets about not being involved, and if people of the Bible don't need such an extra crutch in order to believe, then that's another possible explanation.

 

[Josiah]

I just received a Catholic magazine in the mail today that talks about the Eucharist and to some degree, Eucharistic Miracles. As a LCMS convert I must admit that the miracles make me question my choice in converting. The article mentions the miracles of Sokolka, Poland; Lanciano, Italy; as well as others. There are probably hundreds of them with many changing to human blood and or human heart tissue.
If Lutheranism is right then what are these miracles?

I'd begin by questioning these "miracles." While a few Catholics love to echo such stories, as if too often the case in fundamentalistic Catholicism, there's never any clear evidence.

Lutheranism does not depend on such unsubstantiated miracles but on the Word of God. Read the texts. It says "IS" not "becomes" "converts" "is not" "only seems like" "Aristotle" "Transubstantiation." IS. IS.... body, blood, bread, wine. That's what Jesus said. That's what Paul by inspiration penned. I see no reason to swallow the claim of some Catholic "miracle" to suggest they misspoke and mis-wrote.




.

 

[Faith]

Unless one believes a lie.



My reply showed that not all devout Catholics have miracles happen for them.

I don’t think anyone believes that all devout Catholics experience miracles.

 

[Faith]

I'd begin by questioning these "miracles." While a few Catholics love to echo such stories, as if too often the case in fundamentalistic Catholicism, there's never any clear evidence.

Lutheranism does not depend on such unsubstantiated miracles but on the Word of God. Read the texts. It says "IS" not "becomes" "converts" "is not" "only seems like" "Aristotle" "Transubstantiation." IS. IS.... body, blood, bread, wine. That's what Jesus said. That's what Paul by inspiration penned. I see no reason to swallow the claim of some Catholic "miracle" to suggest they misspoke and mis-wrote.




.

You say unsubstantiated miracles but these “miracles” have supposedly been thoroughly investigated and examined in labs and confirmed that there’s no secular answer for them.

 

[Albion]

You say unsubstantiated miracles but these “miracles” have supposedly been thoroughly investigated and examined in labs and confirmed that there’s no secular answer for them.

IF they are real why does this only happen in the RCC and not Lutheran?

First, it is NOT the case that such miracles happen only in the RCC, but to the extent that "eucharistic" miracles in particular are reported more often in the RCC than in other denominations, the RCC is the only Christian denomination that makes the eucharist into a magical act. That fact alone should be a red flag for you.

However, there is also a very real issue about whether the reported phenomena are genuine as claimed or if, instead, the events are either phony or unproven.

I recommend that you read this report by a person who was interested in the matter like you are but who also then did extensive research into the facts of the issue--
...................................................................................................................................................................

MEDIA=reddit]excatholic/comments/elb7bz[/MEDIA

There are rules against copying lengthy quotes, but in order to get the whole report, put [ in front of the first character above and ] after the last one.

This is an excerpt--

"I'll outline a few points that I have found thus far:

• these miracles consistently occur in countries where the population is supermajority catholic (Poland, mexico, Argentina etc).
• there are no peer review papers or journals available to the general public, however there are seemingly experts claiming that they have happened.
• These scientists/doctors are either self identified Catholics, or of an unknown faith/disposition.
• All of these 'miracles' , appear to occur after transubination was questioned as doctrine in the 11th century (the one exception ive found is the miracle of Lanciono, which is claimed to have occurred in the 7th or 8th century, however there is no historical mention of it until its "rediscovery" in the 16th century).
• Modern miracles seem to follow almost the exact same formula or story, wherein a host is dropped on the ground, placed in holy water to dissolve, only for it later be discovered that the host has turned red, after which it is sent off for testing and determined to either be mold or, in some cases, allegedly flesh.
• The vatican has made no public/widespread announcements about any of these outside of the local level, but is perfectly happy selling books and tours in various places."

 

[Faith]

First, it is NOT the case that such miracles happen only in the RCC, but to the extent that "eucharistic" miracles in particular are reported more often in the RCC than in other denominations, the RCC is the only Christian denomination that makes the eucharist into a magical act. That fact alone should be a red flag for you.

However, there is also a very real issue about whether the reported phenomena are genuine as claimed or if, instead, the events are either phony or unproven.

I recommend that you read this report by a person who was interested in the matter like you are but who also then did extensive research into the facts of the issue--
...................................................................................................................................................................

MEDIA=reddit]excatholic/comments/elb7bz[/MEDIA

There are rules against copying lengthy quotes, but in order to get the whole report, put [ in front of the first character above and ] after the last one.

This is an excerpt--

"I'll outline a few points that I have found thus far:

• these miracles consistently occur in countries where the population is supermajority catholic (Poland, mexico, Argentina etc).
• there are no peer review papers or journals available to the general public, however there are seemingly experts claiming that they have happened.
• These scientists/doctors are either self identified Catholics, or of an unknown faith/disposition.
• All of these 'miracles' , appear to occur after transubination was questioned as doctrine in the 11th century (the one exception ive found is the miracle of Lanciono, which is claimed to have occurred in the 7th or 8th century, however there is no historical mention of it until its "rediscovery" in the 16th century).
• Modern miracles seem to follow almost the exact same formula or story, wherein a host is dropped on the ground, placed in holy water to dissolve, only for it later be discovered that the host has turned red, after which it is sent off for testing and determined to either be mold or, in some cases, allegedly flesh.
• The vatican has made no public/widespread announcements about any of these outside of the local level, but is perfectly happy selling books and tours in various places."

So, is it safe to say that you think these “miracles” are fake? Could the RCC be in on it?

 

[MoreCoffee]

My reply showed that not all devout Catholics have miracles happen for them.

Miracles of healing are not a RIGHT. But hope and prayer can help a person to understand why suffering can be offered to God through Jesus Christ for the benefit of the whole world. As Saint Paul did and wrote about in his letter to the Colossians.

1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church:​

 

[Faith]

Miracles of healing are not a RIGHT. But hope and prayer can help a person to understand why suffering can be offered to God through Jesus Christ for the benefit of the whole world. As Saint Paul did and wrote about in his letter to the Colossians.

1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church:​

What is your opinion of Eucharistic Miracles, now knowing that these miracles weren’t peer reviewed and happened pretty much the same way and often in poor countries?

 

[MoreCoffee]

What is your opinion of Eucharistic Miracles, now knowing that these miracles weren’t peer reviewed and happened pretty much the same way and often in poor countries?

Poverty does not make a nation and its people unreliable witnesses to the graces of God including miracles. Jesus was poor, so too were the twelve apostles he chose. And Jesus' life and work wasn't peer reviewed, so maybe expecting peer reviews is a red herring dragged across the path of faith to dissuade people from walking in the faith.