How long were the Israelites in Egypt?

atpollard

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And then somebody changed the Hebrew, while the Septuagint still words it correctly.
The Hebrew predates the Septuagint, making that a neat trick without a DeLorian and a Flux Capacitor. ;)
 

atpollard

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atpollard

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Amazing how many people don’t want to listen to basic math. The sure signs of denial.
Not denial ... just an unwillingness to tell God that He didn’t really say, what He really did say.
 

NathanH83

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Not denial ... just an unwillingness to tell God that He didn’t really say, what He really did say.

Why do you feel the need to attribute a modern, corrupted Hebrew text with the “Word of God” when even Paul himself bears witness to the Greek Septuagint is reflecting the reality of what the original Hebrew said.

The truth is, you are telling God that he didn’t really say what he said.

Paul makes it clear to us that the original Hebrew said “Egypt and Canaan”.

But you don’t want to accept that. Why? Because of some modern-day, unbelieving Jews who corrupted their own Bible?

Why would you seek spiritual leadership from unbelieving Jews, and prefer them over Paul?

What Paul says in Galatians 3:17, that’s what God said. God himself is attesting to the correct rendering of Exodus 12:40. Why don’t you want to believe it?
 

NathanH83

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It seems to me that the overwhelming consensus of scholars that have dedicated their careers to Textural Criticism have concluded from the actual manuscript evidence and linguistic analysis and extra-biblical writings (like letters from ECF and Rabbinical traditions) the exact opposite of your opinion.

How do you explain that all of the experts got it wrong and a handful of amateurs had an epiphany?
Do you think that Bible Scholars WANT the texts to disagree, or they are genuinely convinced that Exodus said “Egypt” (without the Cannan added in the later Septuagint) and are unwilling to change the Word of God.
Overwhelming consensus?
Paul the Apostle makes it clear that the 430 years starts with Abraham receiving the promise.
When you put them in Egypt for 430 years, you can't add up all the ages. You'd have to add extra generations in there in order for it to fit.
But if you go with 215 as Paul states in Galatians, then you don't have to add extra generations.
Answers in Genesis says 215 years as well as Josephus.
Glenn Fritz PhD says 215 years.
What overwhelming consensus are you talking about?
 

NathanH83

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Not denial ... just an unwillingness to tell God that He didn’t really say, what He really did say.
God said that the 430 years starts with Abraham and ends with Moses
 

atpollard

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God said that the 430 years starts with Abraham and ends with Moses
Actually, God says no such thing. Quote the verse.

The 430 years are the 430 years in Egypt. Jacob leaving Canan marked the end of the “promise” of Abraham (for the people) and the start of their living under “bondage”. It is a symbolic break from the promise of Abraham (and faith) which Galatians notes is fulfilled in the “child” (singular) of Abraham … aka. Jesus Christ … to the bondage of first Egypt and then the bondage of the Law of Moses. Thus it is the same 430 years … the 430 years in Egypt in both cases (Exodus and Galatians) marking the contrast between the freedom of the PROMISE and the slavery of human BONDAGE (to the world or the law).
 

atpollard

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But if you go with 215 as Paul states in Galatians, then you don't have to add extra generations.
Answers in Genesis says 215 years as well as Josephus.
Glenn Fritz PhD says 215 years.
Quote the verse that says “213 years”.
 

atpollard

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What overwhelming consensus are you talking about?
All of the teams of linguistic scholars that translated EVERY Bible Translation into English for the last 500 years and wrote 430 years instead of 213 years. (KJV, NKJV, ASV, RSV, DBY, NIV, ESV, NASB, CSB, WEB, etc.)
 

NathanH83

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Quote the verse that says “213 years”.

Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.
-Galatians 3:16-17


Paul says here that Moses received the law 430 years after Abraham received the promise concerning his seed.

When you go to Genesis, you find that Abraham received that promise about his seed when he was 75. It was right when he arrived in Canaan. 25 years later when Abraham was 100, that’s when Isaac was born. Then 60 years later Jacob was born. Then 130 years later Jacob moved to Egypt.

You have to do a little math on this:

25 + 60 + 130 = 215.

Since 215 is exactly half of 430, then Paul is saying here in Galatians 3:17 that they were 215 years in Canaan, and 215 years in Egypt. 430 total in Egypt and Canaan.

This is plain, basic, 3rd grade level math.

It’s not Calculus.
It’s not Algebra.
It’s not Trigonometry.
It’s plain basic math.

If we can use trigonometric functions to use one side of a triangle and one angle, then use Sine, Cosine, and Tangent to find the lengths of the other 2 sides, then why can’t we as Christians do PLAIN BASIC MATH that any 3rd grade CHILD can do?

2 + 2 = 4
215 + 215 = 430.

It’s that easy.
 
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NathanH83

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All of the teams of linguistic scholars that translated EVERY Bible Translation into English for the last 500 years and wrote 430 years instead of 213 years. (KJV, NKJV, ASV, RSV, DBY, NIV, ESV, NASB, CSB, WEB, etc.)

The early church used the Greek Septuagint. This is just one of many ways in which the early church beliefs contrast with modern church beliefs.
 

NathanH83

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Quote the verse that says “213 years”.

I didn’t say 213. Where are you getting that?
I said 215.

Did you even watch the video I made explaining this?

 

NathanH83

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Actually, God says no such thing. Quote the verse.

The 430 years are the 430 years in Egypt. Jacob leaving Canan marked the end of the “promise” of Abraham (for the people) and the start of their living under “bondage”. It is a symbolic break from the promise of Abraham (and faith) which Galatians notes is fulfilled in the “child” (singular) of Abraham … aka. Jesus Christ … to the bondage of first Egypt and then the bondage of the Law of Moses. Thus it is the same 430 years … the 430 years in Egypt in both cases (Exodus and Galatians) marking the contrast between the freedom of the PROMISE and the slavery of human BONDAGE (to the world or the law).

You need to do some math.
Add up the ages of Moses, his father Amram, and his father Kohath. It only comes to 350 maximum.

Moses: 80 when he left Egypt.
Amram: 137
Kohath: 133

Kohath was part of the 66 people who went down to Egypt.

80 + 137 + 133 = 350.

You can’t get more than 350 years in Egypt MAXIMUM. There’s no way you’re getting 430 years. It’s not mathematically possible.

This is plain basic math. Any child can figure this out on pencil and paper. Certainly you can pull out your calculator and figure this out.
 

atpollard

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The early church used the Greek Septuagint. This is just one of many ways in which the early church beliefs contrast with modern church beliefs.
You specifically asked for clarification on “what overwhelming consensus” I was talking about, so I provided the requested clarification. The writings of the “early church” and the “Septuagint“ were known to these teams of linguistic scholars … and they still chose “430 years” when translating the Hebrew OT and Greek NT into English.
 
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atpollard

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NathanH83

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You specifically asked for clarification on “what overwhelming consensus” I was talking about, so I provided the requested clarification. The writings of the “early church” and the “Septuagint“ were known to these teams of linguistic scholars … and they still chose “430 years” when translating the Hebrew OT and Greek NT into English.

The math doesn’t lie.
 

NathanH83

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You specifically asked for clarification on “what overwhelming consensus” I was talking about, so I provided the requested clarification. The writings of the “early church” and the “Septuagint“ were known to these teams of linguistic scholars … and they still chose “430 years” when translating the Hebrew OT and Greek NT into English.

What modern translators do has no bearing on what the early church did. Why should I care what modern scholars are doing if they’re not doing what the early Christians were doing?
 

atpollard

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What modern translators do has no bearing on what the early church did. Why should I care what modern scholars are doing if they’re not doing what the early Christians were doing?
Why are you posting in English? The Early Church relied exclusively on Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and Latin. If you REALLY care nothing about the scholars that translated the Bible into English, then you should also stick with Greek and Latin like the ECFs.

I am fluent in English, so the scholarly work of the English translators IS IMPORTANT to me.
YMMV.
 

NathanH83

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Why are you posting in English? The Early Church relied exclusively on Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and Latin. If you REALLY care nothing about the scholars that translated the Bible into English, then you should also stick with Greek and Latin like the ECFs.

I am fluent in English, so the scholarly work of the English translators IS IMPORTANT to me.
YMMV.

It doesn’t matter what language your Bible is in. There should be Bibles in all languages. But our translations should be consistent with the Bible use by the early church. Regardless of what language it is in, it should be true and faithful to the original.
 

atpollard

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The math doesn’t lie.
Nor does the WORD OF GOD:
  • [Exo 12:40-41 NASB20] 40 Now the time that the sons of Israel had lived in Egypt was 430 years. 41 And at the end of 430 years, on this very day, all the multitudes of the LORD departed from the land of Egypt.
  • [LXX] 12:40 ἡ δὲ κατοίκησις τῶν υἱῶν Ισραηλ ἣν κατῴκησαν ἐν γῇ Αἰγύπτῳ καὶ ἐνγῇ Χανααν ἔτη τετρακόσια τριάκοντα
  • [LXX] 12:41 καὶ ἐγένετο μετὰ τὰ τετρακόσια τριάκοντα ἔτη ἐξῆλθεν πᾶσα ἡδύναμις κυρίου ἐκ γῆς Αἰγύπτου

  • [Gal 3:17 NASB20] 17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came 430 years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
  • [TR] 3:17 τοῦτο δὲ λέγω· διαθήκην προκεκυρωμένην ὑπὸ τοῦ θεοῦ εἰς Χριστὸν ὁμετὰ ἔτη τετρακόσια καὶ τριάκοντα γεγονὼς νόμος οὐκ ἀκυροῖ εἰς τὸκαταργῆσαι τὴν ἐπαγγελίαν
 
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