Revelation 14:1-5

[Lees]

Albert Barnes' commentaries are easily found online.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/55228/55228-h/55228-h.htm

Big deal.

Lees

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
The Watchtower Society (a.k.a. Jehovah's Witnesses) claims that the sons
listed at Rev 7:1-8 aren't biological sons of Israel; but rather "spiritual"
sons-- referring of course to the Society's elite cadre of 144,000 Witnesses
who have supposedly undergone a spirit birth per Christ's instructions at
John 3:3-12; and the anointing as per 1John 2:26-27.

The Society's claim is premised upon its observation that there never was a
tribe of Joseph; when in reality Joseph is listed as both a son and a tribe
(Gen 49:2-28 and Ezek 48:31-34). So that portion of the Society's reasoning
is clearly a false premise.

The Society's claim is also premised upon its observation that Ephraim and
Dan are missing from the list of tribes. However, what the Society's
theologians have somehow overlooked in the Old Testament is that it doesn't
matter whose names are chosen to represent the twelve tribes of Israel just
so long as there are twelve names. Are there twelve in Rev 7:1-8? Yes. Well
then that's good enough.

The Society's claim is also premised upon its reasoning that Levi isn't a valid
tribe based upon the fact that the Levites are exempt from warfare.
However, Levi is clearly listed as both a son and a tribe (Gen 49:2-28) plus
Ezek 48:31-34, which is a good many years after Num 1:1-54. So that
premise is bogus too.

The Watchtower Society not wanting the 144,000 to be biological Hebrews is
one thing; but I would just like to know from whence Charles T. Russell's
and Joseph F. Rutherford's followers got the idea that their people constitute
the 144,000. That's a pretty serious claim. How do they validate it? I don't
know; but I can just about guarantee that their explanation is an outlandish
stretch of the imagination consisting of humanistic reasoning, rationalizing,
spiritualizing, clever sophistry, their proprietary glossary, and semantic double
speak.

NOTE: According to Rev 14:1-4, the 144,000 are supposed to all be males,
and none have ever slept with a woman. That, if true, would of course
disqualify married JWs.
_

 

[MoreCoffee]

@MoreCoffee

Where it is available is not what I asked. Where did 'you' take these quotes from? Obviously not from books because you refuse to credit them.

So, what is the source on the internet that you are quoting from?

And don't ignore my post #(16). What is your point. Who are you agreeing with?

Lees

Both sources quoted are available in e-sword as commentary modules. They are not available to me as books. I named both modules. "Haydock's notes [on the bible]" and "Albert Barnes' notes on the bible". The quotes come from the commentary on Revelation chapter 14 in each source.

I agree - to an extent - with both commentators.

 

[Lees]

@MoreCoffee

Again, their availability is not what I asked. Did 'you' get the quotes you presented from E-sword? From where did 'you' get these quotes?

Lees

 

[MoreCoffee]

where did 'you' get these quotes?

The quotes come from the commentary on Revelation chapter 14 in each e-sword commentary module source. That is where they come from. That is where I found them and from where I quoted.

 

[Lees]

@MoreCoffee

Concerning your post #(23): Then I disagree with you.

Lees

 

[MoreCoffee]

@MoreCoffee

Concerning your post #(23): Then I disagree with you.

Lees

Yes, that was evident a long while ago.

 

[Lees]

@MoreCoffee

Yes, but now I disagree with you. Not with just someone you quoted.

In other words, i disagree with 'you'. Not Albert Barnes commentaries.

Lees

 

[MoreCoffee]

@MoreCoffee

Yes, but now I disagree with you. Not with just someone you quoted.

In other words, i disagree with 'you'. Not Albert Barnes commentaries.

Lees

The horror