The mistake of preaching only happiness

[TurtleHare]

When you get sick and die then we will all know you did not have enough faith. Isn't that what you believe?

 

[psalms 91]

When you get sick and die then we will all know you did not have enough faith. Isn't that what you believe?

No, I believe that can be one reason, not the only one and noone is saying you dont die but I will say that if you walk in the blessings rather than the cursings that it is possible to b have divine health till the day God takes you home.

 

[tango]

No, I believe that can be one reason, not the only one and noone is saying you dont die but I will say that if you walk in the blessings rather than the cursings that it is possible to b have divine health till the day God takes you home.

So what does "divine health til ... God takes you home" look like? Are people as fit as an ox and then suddenly drop dead for no apparent reason? I think I'd rather have sickness, at least that gives us the chance to say goodbye to our loved ones before they die.

Can you explain how you "walk in the blessings rather than the cursings"?

 

[Hammster]

No, I believe that can be one reason, not the only one and noone is saying you dont die but I will say that if you walk in the blessings rather than the cursings that it is possible to b have divine health till the day God takes you home.

Believers never walk in cursings. The only cursing we are subject to is being in the flesh. Which is why we all die physically. But believers are given every spiritually blessing.

You think you are so much more spiritual because of your beliefs. In fact, you have so limited what you know of God because you've put Him in this little convenient Santa Claus box. If you're good, He will bring you toys. If you're bad, coal.

 

[psalms 91]

Believers never walk in cursings. The only cursing we are subject to is being in the flesh. Which is why we all die physically. But believers are given every spiritually blessing.

You think you are so much more spiritual because of your beliefs. In fact, you have so limited what you know of God because you've put Him in this little convenient Santa Claus box. If you're good, He will bring you toys. If you're bad, coal.

Actually I think I am a lot less spiritual than most not more. Second I dont limit God in what He can do but I believe that others here do.

 

[Hammster]

Actually I think I am a lot less spiritual than most not more. Second I dont limit God in what He can do but I believe that others here do.

You do not believe God can work through sickness to bring Himself glory. You only think He's glorified if people are healed and prosperous. If they aren't, it isn't because of God, but because of their limited faith.

That's putting Him in a box.

 

[psalms 91]

No, the bible points out sickness that was used for His glory but I dont believe thatis the state He wants us in. If Jesus did the will of the Father how come He never said that you keep this it glorifies God?

 

[Hammster]

No, the bible points out sickness that was used for His glory but I dont believe thatis the state He wants us in. If Jesus did the will of the Father how come He never said that you keep this it glorifies God?

I don't understand the question.

 

[psalms 91]

I don't understand the question.

Its simple those that were brought to Jesus were healed, if it wasnt the will of the Father then they wouldnt have been, therefore does it not stand to reason that the will of the Father is to make us whole physically as well as spiritually?

 

[Hammster]

Its simple those that were brought to Jesus were healed, if it wasnt the will of the Father then they wouldnt have been, therefore does it not stand to reason that the will of the Father is to make us whole physically as well as spiritually?

How many were healed that didn't have faith?

 

[TurtleHare]

Christ healed because it fulfilled the prophecy from the old testament.

 

[psalms 91]

How many were healed that didn't have faith?

Dont know but I do know that many that are recorded showed extronanary faith

 

[Hammster]

Dont know but I do know that many that are recorded showed extronanary faith

You don't know what scripture says, yet you are sure of your position.

I'll educate you, then. There are many cases in scripture where Jesus (or the apostles) healed without faith of the recipient being necessary. At least two cases involve people who didn't even ask to be healed. Yet there's no evidence of everyone alive at the time being healed.

So since that's the case, and you are certain that it's Jesus' desire that all be healed, why is my wife still sick? Why did I have a friend die this year of pancreatic cancer?

 

[psalms 91]

You don't know what scripture says, yet you are sure of your position.

I'll educate you, then. There are many cases in scripture where Jesus (or the apostles) healed without faith of the recipient being necessary. At least two cases involve people who didn't even ask to be healed. Yet there's no evidence of everyone alive at the time being healed.

So since that's the case, and you are certain that it's Jesus' desire that all be healed, why is my wife still sick? Why did I have a friend die this year of pancreatic cancer?

Because we live in a fallen world. Did you ask God these things? If so what did He say

 

[Hammster]

Because we live in a fallen world. Did you ask God these things? If so what did He say

You are the one who equated today with the times of Jesus (which was just as fallen as today). So please explain why, if He was willing to heal some regardless of their faith, my wife is not healed.

 

[tango]

Its simple those that were brought to Jesus were healed, if it wasnt the will of the Father then they wouldnt have been, therefore does it not stand to reason that the will of the Father is to make us whole physically as well as spiritually?

This goes back to the difference between an example and a rule.

Jesus healed people when he walked this earth as a man but that doesn't mean he has to continue to heal everybody who asks for evermore.

I had cornflakes for breakfast this morning but the statement "tango always has cornflakes for breakfast" is demonstrably untrue. If you observe that I have cornflakes for breakfast every day for a decade it's still not true that I will always have cornflakes for breakfast.

Whether the "happiness" talked of in the thread title relates to freedom from sickness or other earthly woes isn't really the point. Jesus said the world would hate us. Jesus told us to take up our cross and follow him. It would be rather unusual if what was on offer was "hey, you'll be hated by everyone and you'll face all sorts of trials and persecutions, you'll be punished and beaten and executed for my sake, but look on the bright side, you can claim your healing any time you get a cold".

 

[psalms 91]

You are the one who equated today with the times of Jesus (which was just as fallen as today). So please explain why, if He was willing to heal some regardless of their faith, my wife is not healed.

I dont know you or your wife so I cant answer and even if I did I still might not know but God does, so again, ask Him

 

[tango]

I dont know you or your wife so I cant answer and even if I did I still might not know but God does, so again, ask Him

Do you need to know someone? If the teaching you believe is that healing is always God's will and people are healed regardless of their faith, an individual who is not healed immediately breaks that "always" unless it can be explained.

The existence of a single person who has not been healed demonstrates that it is not God's will to always heal without condition. If someone is not healed it means either God's will is not always to heal or that there are conditions that haven't been met.

Perhaps when we are told to take up their cross it means some will be poor, some will be sick, some will be martyred, and so on. If people are willing to follow Jesus for no benefit other than knowing Jesus it says a whole lot more than the people who follow Jesus because he seems like the latest get-rich-quick scheme.

 

[Hammster]

I dont know you or your wife so I cant answer and even if I did I still might not know but God does, so again, ask Him

So are you changing your view that Jesus heals the same way today as He did in His first coming?

 

[psalms 91]

Not at all, I care little the circumstances God doesnt change