Genealogy in Matthew

Angelina1239

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This is a question, with greatest respect to all and I hope I am not being too simplistic.
Does not this clear lineage prove that Jesus is definitely the Messiah? In particular to Jewish people who I assume generally do not accept Jesus.
 

Lees

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This is a question, with greatest respect to all and I hope I am not being too simplistic.
Does not this clear lineage prove that Jesus is definitely the Messiah? In particular to Jewish people who I assume generally do not accept Jesus.

It certainly proves that Jesus is of the royal Davidic line and has a right to the throne, which Messiah must have.

Any future one claiming to be the Messiah will have to present equal proof. And today, I don't see how that is possible as the Jews have no records of even their own tribal origin.

Lees
 

Andrew

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I recommend this apologetic work from our member NathanH83 to the Jewish Rabbis who claim that the genealogy in Mathew proves Jesus cannot be the Messiah.

 

Lees

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I recommend this apologetic work from our member NathanH83 to the Jewish Rabbis who claim that the genealogy in Mathew proves Jesus cannot be the Messiah.


The curse of Jeconiah would have applied only if Jesus was the 'actual' son of Joseph. But he was not. (Matt. 1:16) (Luke 3:23) His blood line was of Mary.

In short, Jesus had legal right to the throne through Joseph. But he was of the 'seed of David' through Mary. We know Mary was of the Davidic line. See (Luke 1:31-32) "...and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David"

Matthew's genealogy traces Jesus line through Solomon, the royal line. (Matt. 1:6-7)

Luke's genealogy traces Jesus line through Nathan. (Luke 3:31-32) This by-passes the curse of Jeconiah.

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Angelina1239

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It certainly proves that Jesus is of the royal Davidic line and has a right to the throne, which Messiah must have.

Any future one claiming to be the Messiah will have to present equal proof. And today, I don't see how that is possible as the Jews have no records of even their own tribal origin.

Lees
It makes me wonder why Jews still do not accept Jesus. The lineage is clear.
 

Origen

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It makes me wonder why Jews still do not accept Jesus. The lineage is clear.
I would suggest the simplest reason is they just don't believe it.
 

Lees

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It makes me wonder why Jews still do not accept Jesus. The lineage is clear.

The Jews, as a people, are under a judicial blindness from God. See (Is. 44:18) (2 Cor. 3:14-15) (Rom. 11:7-8) (Rom. 11:25) But there are still individual Jews who do believe and make up the remnant. (Rom. 11:5)

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Odë:hgöd

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It makes me wonder why Jews still do not accept Jesus. The lineage is clear.

God decreed that David's throne pass down thru his biological heir Solomon. (2Sam
7:12-13, 1Chron 17:11-14, and 1Chron 22:9-10)

All's well and good till we get to Jesus because although Rom 1:3 verifies that he's
biologically related to David, there's no way to verify that Jesus is biologically
related to Solomon, rather, it's easily verified that he's related to Solomon by
means of adoption.

Every one of the Jews with whom I've dialogued in the past refused to accept
adoption as a valid path to David's throne.
_
 

Odë:hgöd

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Jer 22:29-30 . . O land, land, land, hear the word of the Lord! Thus said the Lord:
Record this man as without succession, one who shall never be found acceptable;
for no man of his offspring shall be accepted to sit on the throne of David and to
rule again in Judah.

The bad king's name was Jeconiah, a.k.a. Jehoiakim and/or Coniah. (Jer 22:28)

Had the curse extended in perpetuity, it would've prevented Messiah from ruling for
very long in the land of Israel. However; the wording "to rule again in Judah"
indicates that the curse on Jeconiah's royal progeny was limited to the era of the
divided kingdom. That condition came to an end when Nebuchadnezzar crushed the
whole country and led first Samaria, and then later Judah, off to Babylonian
slavery.

When Messiah reigns, the country of Israel will be unified. His jurisdiction won't be
limited to Judah within a divided kingdom, but will dominate the entire land of
Israel. So the curse won't apply to Messiah no matter who he turns out to be;
whether the man is Jesus or some other guy makes no difference.

Ezek 37:21-22 . .You shall declare to them: Thus said the Lord God: I am going
to take the Israelite people from among the nations they have gone to, and gather
them from every quarter, and bring them to their own land. I will make them a
single nation in the land, on the hills of Israel, and one king shall be king of them
all. Never again shall they be two nations, and never again shall they be divided
into two kingdoms.
_
 

Odë:hgöd

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Christ's genealogy given in the gospel of Luke is sometimes appropriated to
establish Mary's biological connection with David, but I don't recommend that
route because the language and grammar of Luke 3:23 is much too controversial.

Along with the language and grammar issue; there's a serious question about the
listings of Shealtiel and Zerubbabel. In Matthew's genealogy, the two men are
linked to David via Solomon. In Luke's genealogy, they're linked to David via
Solomon's brother Nathan.

Their respective descendants are different too. Zerubbabel's son is listed as Abihud
in Matthew's genealogy, whereas his son is listed as Rhesa in Luke's.

Unfortunately, to date there exists no consensus among the experts how best to
resolve the confusion caused by the presence of Shealtiel and Zerubbabel in both
genealogies. Were we scientific in our thinking; we'd have to consider the data
compromised; and which is why I avoid using Luke's to prove that Mary was
biologically related to David.


NOTE: It's been suggested that Shealtiel and Zerubbabel are common names so we
shouldn't be surprised to find them listed in both genealogies. However, they are
listed as father and son in both genealogies, which we cannot expect reasonable
people to accept as mere coincidence.
_
 

tango

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This is a question, with greatest respect to all and I hope I am not being too simplistic.
Does not this clear lineage prove that Jesus is definitely the Messiah? In particular to Jewish people who I assume generally do not accept Jesus.

If it were as simple as that I suspect the Jews would have accepted Jesus by now.

I'm not an expert on what the various Jewish groups believe but can't help thinking that Jesus being one of untold thousands of people descended from David, in and of itself, doesn't prove anything about him at all.
 

Angelina1239

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If it were as simple as that I suspect the Jews would have accepted Jesus by now.

I'm not an expert on what the various Jewish groups believe but can't help thinking that Jesus being one of untold thousands of people descended from David, in and of itself, doesn't prove anything about him at all.
Yet together with so much other evidence, it is overwhelmingly true that He was and is who He says, the Messiah.
 

tango

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Yet together with so much other evidence, it is overwhelmingly true that He was and is who He says, the Messiah.

Obviously not enough evidence to convince the Jews though, right? Or perhaps the Jews don't accept some of the things we accept as being true.
 

Lees

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If it were as simple as that I suspect the Jews would have accepted Jesus by now.

I'm not an expert on what the various Jewish groups believe but can't help thinking that Jesus being one of untold thousands of people descended from David, in and of itself, doesn't prove anything about him at all.

Except there is no Jew alive today that can prove he comes from the tribe of Judah and the Davidic line.

The only Jew that can is Jesus Christ.

Lees
 

Lees

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Yet together with so much other evidence, it is overwhelmingly true that He was and is who He says, the Messiah.

A true statement.

And can we not see that, though we present the evidence we have, that evidence itself does not persuade?

If all you present is Jesus Christ the Lord and Saviour the one who will turn to Him, will turn on just that message. And, the one who will not turn on that message, will not turn no matter the evidence you provide.

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tango

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Except there is no Jew alive today that can prove he comes from the tribe of Judah and the Davidic line.

The only Jew that can is Jesus Christ.

Lees

I'm not sure how this is relevant, but maybe it's true.
 

Lees

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I'm not sure how this is relevant, but maybe it's true.

Why wouldn't it be relevant? You said there are thousands of people descended from the line of David. I said but none today can prove that lineage. Only Jesus Christ.

Very relevant.

Lees
 
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