What is your view on proselytizing?

[Lucian Hodoboc]

From here: Penn Jillette: I don’t respect people who don’t proselytise – Diarium Neminis

The famous atheist entertainer Penn Jillette once said in an online video:

I don’t respect people that don’t proselytize. I don’t respect that at all. If you believe that there’s a heaven and hell, and people could be going to hell — or not getting eternal life, or whatever — and you think that, “Well, it’s not really worth tellin’ ’em this, because it would make it socially awkward”, and atheists who think that people shouldn’t proselytize, “Just leave me alone. Keep your religion to yourself”… How much do you have to hate somebody to not proselytize? How much do you have to hate somebody to believe that everlasting life is possible and not tell them that? I mean, if I believe, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a truck was coming at you and you didn’t believe it —that truck was bearing down on you — there’s a certain point where I tackle you, and this is more important than that.

What are your thoughts about the ideas expressed in that quote? What is your view on proselytizing? Do you think that proselytizing should be mandatory for Christians?

 

[Lamb]

Jesus formed relationships with others before He had discussions with them...so it's best that we do that too. Form a relationship with people and those conversations will come up. I've had Atheists ask me questions because we were friends and they could trust me not to push my beliefs onto them, but answer them when asked. If you force your belief onto someone, He might reject it because it was forced, but if they are curious and ask and trust you to share what you know, then it's more well received.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

If you force your belief onto someone, He might reject it because it was forced

If you warned a blind person of an inaudible danger that was right ahead of them and the person didn't believe you and continued to proceed towards the danger, would you let them do it because your insistence might be perceived as you forcing your belief onto someone?

 

[tango]

If you warned a blind person of an inaudible danger that was right ahead of them and the person didn't believe you and continued to proceed towards the danger, would you let them do it because your insistence might be perceived as you forcing your belief onto someone?

You really need to be careful to make relevant comparisons in discussions like this one.

Back in my teenage years I was hanging out with a group of friends. One of the girls in the group had an open can of soda. We were all chatting and people had left their drinks on a table. I noticed a wasp crawl inside this girl's can of drink but before I had time to say anything she picked it up to take a drink. I was close enough to knock the drink out of her hand before she could put it to her mouth, so that's what I did. She didn't understand why I did it until she saw the wasp fly out of the can.

Compare and contrast telling her that sugary drinks are bad for her and she should consider alternatives so she doesn't end up diabetic in later life. Or even, if you prefer, consider me telling her that a wasp had crawled inside her drink so she should probably throw it away. If I had told her there was a wasp inside her drink can would it be my responsibility to stand over her to make absolutely sure she didn't put the can to her mouth, standing guard until either the wasp left or she threw away the drink?

A big difference is that we cannot respond to something on someone else's behalf. In an emergency we can take action to save someone's mortal life but there is nothing we can do to save someone's soul. We can only point the way, and it helps nobody if we get in peoples' faces to the point they actively ignore what we have to say.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

 

[tango]

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

There's a big difference between an intervention to save someone from an immediate danger, and a lecture about a future danger when the target isn't interested in the warning.

Danger right here and right now that could kill or seriously harm someone may warrant taking immediate action. It's not our responsibility to follow someone around trying to protect them from everything. If you want a different example you might warn a young woman in the bar that someone slipped a pill into her drink. If she decides to drink it anyway the consequences aren't your responsibility.

When Jesus walked this earth as a man he didn't force anyone. When the rich young ruler decided he'd rather keep his money than pay the price for everlasting life Jesus didn't force the issue, he just let that man walk away.

Expecting someone to listen to us when they've made it clear they don't want to listen to us isn't going to change their minds.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

I'm talking about proselytizing, not about forcing people to convert. And I disagree with your view about the example with the woman in the bar. Personally, if I saw someone putting something in anyone's drink, I'd call the police and do anything in my powers to prevent anyone from consuming that drink. A mere warning is most definitely not enough.

As for warning people about a future danger, doesn't the Bible say that Jesus will return soon, that the Kingdom of God is at hand, that we should not make plans for the future etc.? In this context, what else do you think would be more important to do with our lives than trying to get everyone to be saved?

 

[Lamb]

If you warned a blind person of an inaudible danger that was right ahead of them and the person didn't believe you and continued to proceed towards the danger, would you let them do it because your insistence might be perceived as you forcing your belief onto someone?

That kind of leads to the idea that the blind person could make a decision to keep his way out of danger and I don't believe in decision theology. God works through His Word to bring people to faith and it's His will that converts them, not man making a decision.

 

[Lamb]

I'm talking about proselytizing, not about forcing people to convert. And I disagree with your view about the example with the woman in the bar. Personally, if I saw someone putting something in anyone's drink, I'd call the police and do anything in my powers to prevent anyone from consuming that drink. A mere warning is most definitely not enough.

As for warning people about a future danger, doesn't the Bible say that Jesus will return soon, that the Kingdom of God is at hand, that we should not make plans for the future etc.? In this context, what else do you think would be more important to do with our lives than trying to get everyone to be saved?

If you stood on the street corner with a sign saying Repent, would your message be well received or scoffed? Here in the US you would be pushed aside, told to get out of the way or completely ignored.

That's why I suggest building a relationship with people so that you can share the good news where it will be better received.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

That kind of leads to the idea that the blind person could make a decision to keep his way out of danger and I don't believe in decision theology. God works through His Word to bring people to faith and it's His will that converts them, not man making a decision.

So what is your view on those who lose their faith and die atheists or agnostics? Some of them having been devout Christians, members of the clergy even, with a deep knowledge of Scripture and numerous hours of prayer. Did God change His Will for them, was His Will always for them to lose their faith, or was it their choice to lose their faith?

 

[Lamb]

So what is your view on those who lose their faith and die atheists or agnostics? Some of them having been devout Christians, members of the clergy even, with a deep knowledge of Scripture and numerous hours of prayer. Did God change His Will for them, was His Will always for them to lose their faith, or was it their choice to lose their faith?

Since only God knows the heart, we don't know if they did truly die rejecting Him or if His planted seed came to fruition at the very end and they repented and believed.

 

[hedrick]

Of course. The question is how. If people around me don't know that I'm Christian and at least some of what that means, I'm not doing my job. I'm not so sure that some kinds of evangelism are helpful though.