Election/Predestination

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
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This very controversial issue from a Lutheran perspective...



Some Scriptures:

Ephesians 1:3-7
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace."

2 Thessalonians 2:13
"But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth."

Acts 13:48
"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."

Romans 8:29-30
"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

2 Timothy 1:9
"Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began."

Matthew 24:22-24
"And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect."


Others....
Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:20,22,27; Luke 18:7; Romans 8:33; Colossians 3:12; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1, etc., etc.


Some Notes:


1.
Lutherans understand this as an aspect of JUSTIFICATION (in the narrow sense), not in the philosophical sense of everything being predetermined. Because of this, Lutherans often avoid the word "predestination" (a philosophical word) and use the term "Election" (although both are used interchangeably in Scripture).


2. Some confuse foreknowledge with predestination. They are not the same thing. Foreknowledge means to KNOW something before it happens. Predestination means to CAUSE it to happen. An illustration: I have foreknowledge (in MY case, imperfectly) that the sun will come up tomorrow. But I have nothing to do with it and do not cause it. They speak of two entirely different things.


3. As a Lutheran, I believe that there is mystery in soteriology (which is why Lutherans tend to stay out of the Arminianist/Calvinist fight). The exact interplay of faith and grace, the exact dynamics in HOW God saves us is simply not defined in Scripture - and thus we leave it as mystery. The bottom line is this: GOD is the Savior, not us. And we are justified by God's grace in Christ through our faith, which is the gift of God. THAT we affirm with passion! BTW, Lutherans tend to define "grace" here in a typically Protestant rather than Catholic manner, as God's undeserved, unmerited love, mercy and blessing, as getting what we don't deserve or earn; we don't define it as a "juice" God imputes in us that makes us able to do what we would not otherwise.


4. While Calvinist apply election to God's grace, Lutherans join with historic Christianity and apply it to faith. God predestines who will be granted the divine gift of faith, not whom God will love or for whom Christ will die. More on the difference between Lutheran and Calvinist ideas here: Why Lutheran Predestination isnt Calvinist Predestination | Mathew Block


5. There are two purposes/functions of this teaching.

A. Lutherans understand "predestination" (election) as GOSPEL. For Lutherans, whether something is Law or Gospel is key to understanding it, and we see this as Gospel. It is meant to comfort and assure BELIEVERS; it is not meant to be a 'terror of the conscience.' Let me use this illustration (however flawed). I was "born" by C-section because I had a severe (and potentially fatal) heart problem that needed immediate surgery; for sometime after my birth (and before my second surgery), I was quite limited in size and activities. Anyway, I SO VIVIDLY recall that when I was a little boy, I LOVED when my mother would tell me about before I was born. She told me how very much she loved me and how she prayed constantly for me. She told me how Dad traded in his beloved sports car for a station wagon, and gave up his office at home so it could be converted into a nursery for me (remember - the chances of me living were poor). They told me that the day of my birth and first surgery, my bother and sister both prayed out loud for me (I'd remember that when I had a fight with them!). And many friends, relatives and people from the church were at the hospital (some distance away since I was born at a children's teaching hospital affiliated with a university). Our pastor was there. Mom stressed to me how much I was loved EVEN BEFORE I WAS BORN. How much Mom and Dad wanted me, how much they did for me, the sacrifices they made for me. And they didn't know I would be such a smart, great, incredibly handsome guy. They loved me BEFORE I did ANYTHING. Now, here's the meaning of that for me: I felt comforted, assured. I KNEW they loved me. They'd get mad at me. Dad would sometimes discipline me, I had some ( now embarrassing) fights with my Mom. BUT I knew they loved me - unconditionally, not because of who I am or am not, but because they have this incredible ability to love. And nothing would change that, nothing would separate me from that. And they would sacrifice for me - and they did. I'd ask my Mom to tell me about before I was born - and she'd go over all that. Again and again. It's good to know.

B. It underlines SOLI DEO GLORIA, that justification (narrow) is GOD'S work and gift, not a reward for dead, unregenerate, atheistic, enemies of God adequately jumping though a series of hoops. Since the key is before we were born, obviously it's not based in our works but God's heart.


6. The doctrine of election not only places all our confidence, hope, comfort and courage in GOD (see point #5 above) but it also takes the pride and burden off of us. We are not the Savior, God is. The doctrine of election builds humility, as well as hope and comfort. God's love and gifts flow from His heart, not our merits. This teaching causes humility and confidence.


7. It is (perhaps) logical to conclude that since God only gives faith to SOME, ergo He desires all others to fly in hell. If not by actively CAUSING such then by simply "passing over" them. Logical, perhaps, but very unbiblical. The Bible says that Jesus came to ALL, that He died for ALL, that God desires ALL to be saved. So while this point (made by St. Augustine and by latter-day radical Calvinists) makes some sense it flat out contradicts Scripture... and it turns a doctrine of great comfort into a horrible terror, changes God from loving to a monster. Again, we have mystery here: God's grace is universal.... God desires all to be saved... Jesus died for all.... God gives faith to some. In the opinion of historic, orthodox Christianity, it is best to leave this where Scripture does and to accept we just don't understand how this cranks out in practice RATHER THAN impose teachings that directly contradict Scripture (the definition of heresy).



Blessings!


Josiah



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Lanman87

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If someone ask me if God chose me then I say yes. For some unknown reason God chose me to be a child of His and live in a relationship with Him.

If someone ask me if I chose God then I say yes. When I came to understand my sinfulness and need for forgiveness then I was heartbroken and asked God to forgive me and seek to live a life of faith and repentance.

I don't pretend to understand how it all works. But God chose me and I chose God. I can point you to both in the Bible. It flat out tells us to believe and repent but it also flat out tells us that we are predestined and chosen by God.
 

Lamb

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If someone ask me if God chose me then I say yes. For some unknown reason God chose me to be a child of His and live in a relationship with Him.

If someone ask me if I chose God then I say yes. When I came to understand my sinfulness and need for forgiveness then I was heartbroken and asked God to forgive me and seek to live a life of faith and repentance.

I don't pretend to understand how it all works. But God chose me and I chose God. I can point you to both in the Bible. It flat out tells us to believe and repent but it also flat out tells us that we are predestined and chosen by God.

God chose you but you couldn't do any type of choosing until God chose you and gave you faith. No one chooses God on their own and I'm not saying you're saying that. But you're choosing really means nothing because once God chose you and gave you faith, then you're His. You can choose to reject him. That's pretty much the choice you would have at that point.
 

Josiah

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God chose you but you couldn't do any type of choosing until God chose you and gave you faith. No one chooses God on their own and I'm not saying you're saying that. But you're choosing really means nothing because once God chose you and gave you faith, then you're His. You can choose to reject him. That's pretty much the choice you would have at that point.


In a sense, I "see" Lanman87's point.... there IS certainly mystery here.

But I agree with you, Lamm. The Bible says, "you did not choose me but I chose you." FIRST God comes to us.... gives to us His Holy Spirit... gives to us life/faith/justification... and YES we respond. Exactly how this plays out, well, I think we don't understand that.. but the point of Election is that we need not fear, we HAVE His heart, all because of His heart (not our decision or will or merits or works or recitation of any prayer).

And yes, Lamm, you raise a valid (and related) point: It does seem that those who have received the gift yet retain the ability to reject it (or to put it another way, those with the GIFT of spiritual life are able to commit suicide - as incomprehensible as that is). A Lutheran at another site put it this way, "It is God to takes our hand... and He will never let it go... but we retain the ability to let go of His." I'm not 100% sure that's altogether right but sorta (LOL). OSAS is another topic (for another thread). Lutherans don't accept OSAS but we do affirm that saved is something God does/gives.


Thanks!

Blessings on your New Year!

Josiah



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