How did Jesus know that Zechariah had been murdered when the Old Testament never records it?

[NathanH83]

“that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.”
-Matthew 23:35

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 23:35 - New King James Version

that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

www.biblegateway.com

“In the eighth month of the second year of Darius, the word of the Lord came to Zechariah the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet, saying,”
-Zechariah 1:1

Bible Gateway passage: Zechariah 1:1 - New King James Version

A Call to Repentance - In the eighth month of the second year of Darius, the word of the Lord came to Zechariah the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet, saying,

www.biblegateway.com

The book of Zechariah never records Zechariah being murdered. How did Jesus know? What book of the Old Testament records his death?

 

[Lamb]

“that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.”
-Matthew 23:35

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 23:35 - New King James Version

that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

www.biblegateway.com

“In the eighth month of the second year of Darius, the word of the Lord came to Zechariah the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet, saying,”
-Zechariah 1:1

Bible Gateway passage: Zechariah 1:1 - New King James Version

A Call to Repentance - In the eighth month of the second year of Darius, the word of the Lord came to Zechariah the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet, saying,

www.biblegateway.com

The book of Zechariah never records Zechariah being murdered. How did Jesus know? What book of the Old Testament records his death?

Jesus is God.

Seriously, this thread has me shaking my head.

 

[NathanH83]

Jesus is God.

Seriously, this thread has me shaking my head.

Yea, no duh. But the Pharisees to whom Jesus was speaking had to go by more than just Jesus’ word. Remember, they didn’t believe he is God. Obviously there had to be a record that Zechariah was murdered, or else the Pharisees wouldn’t accept Jesus’ claim that he was murdered. Your comment has ME scratching my head.

 

[Lamb]

Yea, no duh. But the Pharisees to whom Jesus was speaking had to go by more than just Jesus’ word. Remember, they didn’t believe he is God. Obviously there had to be a record that Zechariah was murdered, or else the Pharisees wouldn’t accept Jesus’ claim that he was murdered. Your comment has ME scratching my head.

Maybe you should have asked it accordingly then because the way you wrote this thread initially it made it sound as if you didn't believe that Jesus is God.

 

[NathanH83]

Maybe you should have asked it accordingly then because the way you wrote this thread initially it made it sound as if you didn't believe that Jesus is God.

Yea, that could have been worded a little better

 

[TonyC7]

2 Chronicles 24:20-22
esv

Then the Spirit of God clothed Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest, and he stood above the people, and said to them, “Thus says God, ‘Why do you break the commandments of the Lord, so that you cannot prosper? Because you have forsaken the Lord , he has forsaken you.’” But they conspired against him, and by command of the king they stoned him with stones in the court of the house of the Lord. Thus Joash the king did not remember the kindness that Jehoiada, Zechariah's father, had shown him, but killed his son. And when he was dying, he said, “May the Lord see and avenge!”

 

[Spindle4]

The book of Zechariah never records Zechariah being murdered.

I dunno. Maybe he got murdered before he could record it. . .

 

[NathanH83]

I dunno. Maybe he got murdered before he could record it. . .

Then how did the Pharisees know that Jesus was telling the truth that Zechariah was murdered?

 

[NathanH83]

2 Chronicles 24:20-22
esv

Then the Spirit of God clothed Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest, and he stood above the people, and said to them, “Thus says God, ‘Why do you break the commandments of the Lord, so that you cannot prosper? Because you have forsaken the Lord , he has forsaken you.’” But they conspired against him, and by command of the king they stoned him with stones in the court of the house of the Lord. Thus Joash the king did not remember the kindness that Jehoiada, Zechariah's father, had shown him, but killed his son. And when he was dying, he said, “May the Lord see and avenge!”

That’s a different Zechariah.

The Zechariah from 2 Chronicles 24 was the son of Jehoiada, and lived during the reign of Joash, about 800 BC.

But Jesus was talking about Zechariah son of Berechiah, who lived during the reign of Darius, about 500 BC.

You’re confusing the two Zechariahs.

 

[NathanH83]

I dunno. Maybe he got murdered before he could record it. . .

Deuteronomy was written by Moses, wasn’t it? How then is it that it records his death?

 

[Spindle4]

Obviously there had to be a record that Zechariah was murdered, or else the Pharisees wouldn’t accept Jesus’ claim that he was murdered.

They did have historians, and a very strong oral tradition, especially of family, clan, and tribal history. You might ask how Josephus accumulated so much material, including his reference to one Zacharias, the son of Baruch, who was slain in the middle of the temple, just before the siege of Jerusalem.

Jesus had access to the heaveny archives also:

Luk 2:40 And the Child grew and became strong in spirit, filled with wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him.

Mat 13:54 When He had come to His own country, He taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished and said, "Where did this Man get this wisdom and these mighty works?

Joh 7:16-19 Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. (17) If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority. (18) He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him. (19) Did not Moses give you the law, yet none of you keeps the law? Why do you seek to kill Me?"

 

[NathanH83]

They did have historians, and a very strong oral tradition, especially of family, clan, and tribal history. You might ask how Josephus accumulated so much material, including his reference to one Zacharias, the son of Baruch, who was slain in the middle of the temple, just before the siege of Jerusalem.

Jesus had access to the heaveny archives also:

Luk 2:40 And the Child grew and became strong in spirit, filled with wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him.

Mat 13:54 When He had come to His own country, He taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished and said, "Where did this Man get this wisdom and these mighty works?

Joh 7:16-19 Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. (17) If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority. (18) He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him. (19) Did not Moses give you the law, yet none of you keeps the law? Why do you seek to kill Me?"

I’ve never heard about this from Josephus before. Do you know round about what time period this took place?

 

[Fritz Kobus]

Then how did the Pharisees know that Jesus was telling the truth that Zechariah was murdered?

Does it really matter if the Pharisees believed Jesus? Besides, the murder of Zechariah may have been common knowledge among the Jews.

 

[NathanH83]

Does it really matter if the Pharisees believed Jesus? Besides, the murder of Zechariah may have been common knowledge among the Jews.

But how was it common knowledge? Was it in the Bible?

 

[Spindle4]

I’ve never heard about this from Josephus before. Do you know round about what time period this took place?

The year would be 69AD, just before the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD. This Zechariah gets into the mix as a suggestion that Jesus prophecied it.

The point I want to make is that the written Old Testament was not the only source of historical material at the time Jesus walked the earth, and from antiquity scribes kept written records, and storytellers recited the Targum.

Quote:
Josephus' other major work and his longest, The Antiquities of the Jews, published some twenty years later, was written primarily for the benefit of the non-Jewish world. It is a history of the Jewish nation from earliest times (he begins with an account of the biblical creation narrative) to Josephus' own time and was intended to demonstrate that the Jews enjoyed an even greater antiquity than did the Greeks. The work draws heavily from the Septuagint (the Greek version of the Hebrew Scriptures) and extrabiblical traditions as well as the writings of Greek and Roman historians. His autobiography, The Life of Flavius Josephus, was published as an appendix to the Antiquities and was written primarily to defend himself and his war record against the unflattering portrayal given in the work of another Jewish historian, Justus of Tiberias. Against Apion is a short and eloquent apologetic for the Jewish faith in contrast with various aspects of Greek thought. [ Intro To The Works Of Josephus ]


IN THE CONTEXT OF THE VERSE BEING DISCUSSED THIS LINK IS MOST ILLUMINATING: But Which Zechariah Is It?

 

[NathanH83]

The year would be 69AD, just before the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD. This Zechariah gets into the mix as a suggestion that Jesus prophecied it.

The point I want to make is that the written Old Testament was not the only source of historical material at the time Jesus walked the earth, and from antiquity scribes kept written records, and storytellers recited the Targum.

Quote:
Josephus' other major work and his longest, The Antiquities of the Jews, published some twenty years later, was written primarily for the benefit of the non-Jewish world. It is a history of the Jewish nation from earliest times (he begins with an account of the biblical creation narrative) to Josephus' own time and was intended to demonstrate that the Jews enjoyed an even greater antiquity than did the Greeks. The work draws heavily from the Septuagint (the Greek version of the Hebrew Scriptures) and extrabiblical traditions as well as the writings of Greek and Roman historians. His autobiography, The Life of Flavius Josephus, was published as an appendix to the Antiquities and was written primarily to defend himself and his war record against the unflattering portrayal given in the work of another Jewish historian, Justus of Tiberias. Against Apion is a short and eloquent apologetic for the Jewish faith in contrast with various aspects of Greek thought. [ Intro To The Works Of Josephus ]


IN THE CONTEXT OF THE VERSE BEING DISCUSSED THIS LINK IS MOST ILLUMINATING: But Which Zechariah Is It?

Ok, well obviously Jesus was talking about a Zechariah who lived in the past

 

[Fritz Kobus]

They did have historians, and a very strong oral tradition, especially of family, clan, and tribal history. You might ask how Josephus accumulated so much material, including his reference to one Zacharias, the son of Baruch, who was slain in the middle of the temple, just before the siege of Jerusalem.

FWIW, I just saw a reference to Josephus re Zechariah death:

"Josephus recorded that the Zealots and Edomites slew Zechariah the son of Berechiah or Baruch, in fulfillment of Matthew 23:35 (Josephus, Wars of the Jews, 4:5:4, 680 note c)."

 

[NathanH83]

FWIW, I just saw a reference to Josephus re Zechariah death:

"Josephus recorded that the Zealots and Edomites slew Zechariah the son of Berechiah or Baruch, in fulfillment of Matthew 23:35 (Josephus, Wars of the Jews, 4:5:4, 680 note c)."

But was that before or after Christ?

 

[Spindle4]

FWIW, I just saw a reference to Josephus re Zechariah death:

"Josephus recorded that the Zealots and Edomites slew Zechariah the son of Berechiah or Baruch, in fulfillment of Matthew 23:35 (Josephus, Wars of the Jews, 4:5:4, 680 note c)."

Yes. Josephus gives us some valuable insights into Jewish history. I'm thinking that being a righteous man called Zechariah is hazardous to health.

But was that before or after Christ?

69AD so after the statement by Jesus, who is thought to have been prophesying by some commentators.

CHAPTER 5. THE CRUELTY OF THE IDUMEANS WHEN THEY WERE GOTTEN INTO THE TEMPLE DURING THE STORM; AND OF THE ZEALOTS. CONCERNING THE SLAUGHTER OF ANANUS, AND JESUS, AND ZACHARIAS; AND HOW THE IDUMEANS RETIRED HOME.

 

[NathanH83]

Yes. Josephus gives us some valuable insights into Jewish history. I'm thinking that being a righteous man called Zechariah is hazardous to health.

69AD so after the statement by Jesus, who is thought to have been prophesying by some commentators.

CHAPTER 5. THE CRUELTY OF THE IDUMEANS WHEN THEY WERE GOTTEN INTO THE TEMPLE DURING THE STORM; AND OF THE ZEALOTS. CONCERNING THE SLAUGHTER OF ANANUS, AND JESUS, AND ZACHARIAS; AND HOW THE IDUMEANS RETIRED HOME.

Jesus said it was in the past