Should people who rip books out of the Bible burn in Hell?

Faithhopeandcharity

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I would still like to know why you rejected Christ? But I respect you’re choice to not share
 

Josiah

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He may have it in a version but he said that James Jude and rev are not inspired

Then what you stated is WRONG. You stated a lie. You now admit, he did NOT rip them out of the Bible. You lied.

But you are wrong here too. I'm pretty sure you won't read this, but until AFTER the Reformation, there was a common distinction made in books of the Bible. Books were embraced as "canonical" and "inspired" but not EQUALLY so. I know - this distinction has faded but it was embraced until perhaps 400 years ago. There were LEVELS of canonicity.

Going back no later than Origin (185-255) ECF spoke of books in the NT as "homologoumena" (unchallenged) and "antiilegomena" (spoken against). Certainly by the early Third Century, these were accepted as follows:
homologoumena - 13 letters of Paul, the 4 Gospels and Acts, First Peter, First John (and sometimes Revelation)
antiilegomenan- Hebrews, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, James, Jude (and sometimes Revelation)

While ALL was regarded as canonical and inspirited, the homologoumena were regarded as more normative, in a sense they "trumped" the others in the function of norming. This was universally accepted. THIS is what Luther was referring to. This "homologoumena" and "antiilegomena" distinction - NOT whether they are to be included in biblical tomes. Now, I'll freely admit Luther overstated this with James, with his "book of straw" comment (which Lutherans fully repudiate), a position he reversed later on. But he NEVER said it should be ripped out of Bibles, he never said it was not canonical, he never said it was not inspired. He simply put it where everyone else did - UNDER the homoogoumena ones (as did Origin and Eusebius and others did in the Early Church). THAT is what Luther meant... that's what he was talking about. He did NOT ripped them out of the Bible Catholics typically used (that book was the Epistle to the Leodiceans).


Now, I call on you to stop the pure MYTHS... the ancient WRONG accusations that to this day get thrown around. You said Luther ripped these books out of the Bible ... he did not. And if you accuse him of embracing some NT books more than others, then you need to accuse most of the ECF and theologians of your own church prior to a few centuries ago; AGAIN, I realize, this distinction has been lost - in Protestantism AND Catholicism - but this is fairly recent, it was still the case in Luther's day.




.

 

Faithhopeandcharity

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Then what you stated is WRONG. You stated a lie. You now admit, he did NOT rip them out of the Bible. You lied.

But you are wrong here too. I'm pretty sure you won't read this, but until AFTER the Reformation, there was a common distinction made in books of the Bible. Books were embraced as "canonical" and "inspired" but not EQUALLY so. I know - this distinction has faded but it was embraced until perhaps 400 years ago. There were LEVELS of canonicity.

Going back no later than Origin (185-255) ECF spoke of books in the NT as "homologoumena" (unchallenged) and "antiilegomena" (spoken against). Certainly by the early Third Century, these were accepted as follows:
homologoumena - 13 letters of Paul, the 4 Gospels and Acts, First Peter, First John (and sometimes Revelation)
antiilegomenan- Hebrews, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, James, Jude (and sometimes Revelation)

While ALL was regarded as canonical and inspirited, the homologoumena were regarded as more normative, in a sense they "trumped" the others in the function of norming. This was universally accepted. THIS is what Luther was referring to. This "homologoumena" and "antiilegomena" distinction - NOT whether they are to be included in biblical tomes. Now, I'll freely admit Luther overstated this with James, with his "book of straw" comment (which Lutherans fully repudiate), a position he reversed later on. But he NEVER said it should be ripped out of Bibles, he never said it was not canonical, he never said it was not inspired. He simply put it where everyone else did - UNDER the homoogoumena ones (as did Origin and Eusebius and others did in the Early Church). THAT is what Luther meant... that's what he was talking about. He did NOT ripped them out of the Bible Catholics typically used (that book was the Epistle to the Leodiceans).


Now, I call on you to stop the pure MYTHS... the ancient WRONG accusations that to this day get thrown around. You said Luther ripped these books out of the Bible ... he did not. And if you accuse him of embracing some NT books more than others, then you need to accuse most of the ECF and theologians of your own church prior to a few centuries ago; AGAIN, I realize, this distinction has been lost - in Protestantism AND Catholicism - but this is fairly recent, it was still the case in Luther's day.




.
I stand corrected
But it does not justify his 5 new dogma’s or the starting of churches

only Christ has authority found the new covenant church on Peter and the apostles and their successors
Truth is revealed by God and is immutable
The church founded by Christ is irreformable
 

Faithhopeandcharity

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Sorry for raising you’re blood pressure
 

Faithhopeandcharity

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What about the kjv boys deleting whole books and some chapters? Negating the word of God
 

Josiah

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What about the kjv boys deleting whole books and some chapters? Negating the word of God


Your ignorance is profound....the KJV of 1611 had a LOT MORE books in it than your modern, post-Trent Catholic one.

And you don't seem to know that the KJV was an ANGLICAN/EPISCOPALIAN tome, not an pan-Protestant tome. And that Luther and Calvin had NOTHING to do with it.

Your Bible has a LOT less books in it than the bibles of the Orthodox Churches.... so does that prove your church ripped out a bunch of books?



.
 

Faithhopeandcharity

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Who then has authority to decide what is and what is not scripture?
 

Andrew

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I would still like to know why you rejected Christ? But I respect you’re choice to not share
Josiah never stated that he has rejected Christ, could you rephrase the question?
 

Andrew

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NathanH83

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What about the kjv boys deleting whole books and some chapters? Negating the word of God

It’s not the KJV translator’s fault. It was the belief of Protestant Christianity of that time. Hopefully people today can repent of this sin and come to a knowledge of the truth.
 

Faithhopeandcharity

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Josiah never stated that he has rejected Christ, could you rephrase the question?
Are you his secretary? Lol

he said he was a former catholic? Do I asked why did you reject Christ?
 

Faithhopeandcharity

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Good question
The Rule of Faith!


Christ is the rule of faith or source of truth for Christians!
Jn 14:6 Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life! The church is an extension of Christ 1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar and ground of truth!

Must be taught by Christ! Gal 1:2

What God has revealed by scripture and the church, the teaching authority of the apostles has proposed for our belief!

Christians must be instructed or taught!

A Christian must have humility and obedience of faith to be taught by Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life!
Jn 14:6

Verses of scripture signifying that we must be taught.

Lk 1:4
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
The church is an exodus christ by which Christ perpetuates his mission, ministry, and teaching with His power and authority through all the world and all ages!

The private interpretation of the “Bible alone” does not and cannot and will not lead to a unity of faith! 2 Pet 1:20
eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: Jn 1:16-17 fullness of Christ!


The Bible does not say all truths revealed by God are found in the “Bible alone”! Or that the word of God is limited to the “Bible alone”!

Not the “Bible alone” acts 2:42
Not personal interpretation or experiences. 2 Pet 1:20

The authority of the apostles is required to know what is the scriptures and what is not, the church having wrote the New Testament by the authority of Christ the apostles determined what is scripture and the authentic interpretation there of!

Saint Jerome’s work of collecting the Bible and getting it approved did not happen until in 381 it was approved by the Pope, the valid successor of Peter having jurisdiction authority of the keys of the kingdom of heaven!

How did the church for almost four centuries live without the “Bible alone”?
The teaching authority of the apostles that’s how! The Bible’s is the Bible by the authority of the church, Christ’s authority given to His apostles!

Christ founded the church on Peter and the apostles to defend, to protect, and to teach “thee faith”

A fundamentalist going by spiritual pride, self-righteous private judgement from scripture, or the humility to hear the teaching of Christ through the church of His apostles?
Obedience of faith: rom 16:26
We must be taught by Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life. Jn 14:6
Instructed: Lk 1:4 acts 8:31
Teach all nations: Matt 28:19
He who hears you (the apostles) hears me: lk 10:16
Hear the church: Matt 18:17
Church is the pillar and ground of truth: 1 Tim 3:14
Christ and his church are one, the church is an extension of Christ through the whole world and all time: acts 9:4

Not scripture plus private judgement

But guided by the teaching office of Christ and his church!

Without the teaching authority of the apostles you cannot know what is and what is not scripture!

Please explain how the church of Jesus Christ existed before the New Testament, the church taught and believed before the New Testament with the same authority of Christ!

Church of the apostles has the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21-23

The church wrote the New Testament, the church gathered the cannon of scripture, the church alone has authority to say what is, and what is not scripture and to give the authoritative interpretation or meaning of scripture!

Not spiritual pride & self-righteous private judgement!

Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)

Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

What did Christ teach the apostles in the 40 days from His resurrection to His ascension?
What did he teach the two disciples on the road to Emmaus?
What was revealed to John the Baptist in Lk 3:2 the word of God came unto John, and did it come by the Bible alone?
Where does Christ command the New Testament to be written? The apostles having the authority of Christ chose to write scripture! Other apostles wrote nothing at all!
How does the eunuch know about baptism? Acts 8

Rule of faith cannot be the “Bible Alone” because we did not have a bible until 381 when the church of the apostles by the authority of Christ determined what was and what was not scripture! You only have a bible cos the church wrote one and cannonized it by the authority of Christ thru his apostles!

Could not read
The Bible itself points to authority granted by Christ
The Bible condemns person interpretation of scripture as opposed to the church of the apostles having the authority of Christ to interpret scripture

so how can the rule of faith be the “Bible alone” when it did not even exist until the church approved it in 381 by the authority of Christ in His apostles, what about the millions who could not read most could not read until the 20th century, and books including Bible were rare and very expensive all written by hand (mostly by monks who sacrificed their whole life to copy a bible) until the printing press, even then they were still expensive
What does a blind person do?

the Holy Spirit is guaranteed to the apostles Jn 16:13 they are to teach the nations Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 acts 8

in acts 8 did the eunuch know about Christ and baptism from the scripture and the Holy Spirit? No God sent him and apostle


Acts 2:42 the held the doctrine of the apostles
Not the doctrine of the “Bible alone”!

if you believe the doctrine of the “Bible alone”, then there can be no other authority so scratch that verse out of your Bible! And many others that refer to the authority of the apostles!
Btw it’s only by the authority of the apostles that know what is and what is not scripture

Cannot summit to or obey any other authority accept the Bible alone
Even God, or Christ, or His church, or His apostles, or those who He sent and commanded to care for you’re soul!
The Bible is the only authority for a Protestant!

Where does the Bible say the rule of faith is the Bible alone?

the Bible was not assembled and approved until 381 by the apostles btw
Only the apostles said what is and what is not scripture.

What did Christians do in all those years without the “Bible alone”
until the advent of printing bibles were copied by hand and very rare and extremely expensive what did Christians do in those days
Most people were illiterate until the 20th century what did they do?
So you see the “Bible Alone” cannot be the rule of faith for Christians!
Instead we actually believe scripture and submit to and obey the apostles acts 2:42


Must be taught! Must be instructed by Christ!

Bible does not say to read and decide doctrine for you’re self!

Lk 1:1-4
4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Acts 8 the eunuch had scripture but needed to be instructed by an apostle.
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Taught by Christ thru His apostles!

Eph 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

Christ taught them and us thru the apostles.

Not scripture alone, but what the prophets spoke! And Christ explaining the scriptures, and we also are disciples, Christ also opens the scripture to us thru His church by the teaching authority of the apostles!

The problem with the “Bible alone”!

You can easily see why the false doctrine of the “Bible alone” causes so many problems and why we can simply ignor creeds, councils, dogma, and decrees of the holy apostles teaching infallibility with the authority of Christ!

“Bible alone” is false doctrine
Negates the word of God, apostolic councils, creeds, cannons, decrees, dogma, and the teaching authority of the apostles!

The false doctrine of “the Bible Alone” is an attack on Christ and His holy church!
Christ and his church are one acts 9:4
To reject the church or church teaching is to reject Christ!

An attack on the holy church and her divine authority!

Even Christ who is the truth itself is excluded!

verses that refer to authority other than the “Bible Alone” our of your Bible!

Isa 22:21-22 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 1:32 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 Jn 21:17 Acts 1:17 acts 1:26 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 20:28 eph 2:20 and too many more to mention!

The Bible alone is based on spiritual pride, self-righteous private judgement, and personal interpretation, and not truth revealed by God in Christ without error, thru the teaching authority of the apostles!

God, Christ, the HS, the church, the apostles cannot be any authority at all, only scripture
1st problem is that the church of the apostles says what is and what is not scripture
The Bible comes from the teaching of the apostles

Pillar and foundation of truth!
The church will Christ’s authority in the apostles!
1 Tim 3:15

The church existed before the New Testament!
The church believed and taught before there was a New Testament!
The church exercised authority before there was a New Testament!
The authority of Christ thru His one true church wrote the New Testament!

Scripture alone is not enough

Lk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

Acts 1:15 peter stood up and opened the scripture to them

acts 8 the eunuch had scripture God sent an apostle to teach him

Where does Christ or scripture say that all the divinely reveled truths are in scripture?
Where does Christ or scripture say what is and what is not scripture?
 

Lamb

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Are you his secretary? Lol

he said he was a former catholic? Do I asked why did you reject Christ?

Andrew is a moderator here and he was asking you as part of his duties.

Rejection of the Roman Catholic church is not rejecting Christ. As Admin, I ask you to not infer such a ridiculous thing because it's bearing false witness.
 

Faithhopeandcharity

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Andrew is a moderator here and he was asking you as part of his duties.

Rejection of the Roman Catholic church is not rejecting Christ. As Admin, I ask you to not infer such a ridiculous thing because it's bearing false witness.
No offense just quoting scripture
 

Lamb

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No offense just quoting scripture

The Roman Catholic church is not even listed in scripture. God's holy church includes all believers and Josiah is among those. Please stop insinuating that those outside the Roman Catholic Church are not believers.
 

Pedrito

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===================================================================================

To lighten things up a bit, may I point out that I am not strong enough to rip books out of the Bible.

I can’t even tear a telephone book in half.

===================================================================================
 
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