When did Roman Catholicism begin?

[NathanH83]

Like, did it begin the split second after the Apostles died? Or did it begin after Christianity was legalized with the edict of Milan in 313? Or sometime later?

 

[RichWh1]

Catholicism: History, Tradition, & Beliefs of the Catholic Church

The Catholic Church is an ancient religious institution boasting over a billion members worldwide. As such, Catholicism is the largest Christian ecclesiastical body in the world. Because of this alone, it is important to have an accurate understanding of the Roman Catholic Church’s history and...

www.christianity.com

The Church at Rome, which would later develop into what we know as Roman Catholicism, was started in the apostolic times (circa AD 30-95). Although we do not have records of the first Christian missionaries to Rome, it is obvious that a church existed there as the New Testament Scriptures were being written. St. Paul himself wrote an epistle to the church at Rome, and the Book of Acts records some of his dealings there. St. Clement of Rome (ca. 35-99), St. Ignatius of Antioch (35-108), and St. Irenaeus of Lyons (130-202) all speak as if St. Simon Peter ministered in Rome, serving as its first bishop (the term “bishop” is an English contraction of the biblical Greek word episkopos, often translated as “overseer” in modern Protestant translations of the New Testament). Tertullian (ca. 155-240) reported that Peter died in the same place as Paul, and it is commonly believed that Paul was martyred in Rome. Since both Peter and Paul were such important and prominent apostles, Rome became an important pilgrimage site for Christians who wanted to visit their graves and worship near where they were buried.

Because of the tie to Peter and Paul (as well as the fact that Rome was the capital city of the western portion of the Roman Empire), the bishop of Rome became the most prominent of the western Christian ecclesiastical leaders


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[NathanH83]

Catholicism: History, Tradition, & Beliefs of the Catholic Church

The Catholic Church is an ancient religious institution boasting over a billion members worldwide. As such, Catholicism is the largest Christian ecclesiastical body in the world. Because of this alone, it is important to have an accurate understanding of the Roman Catholic Church’s history and...

www.christianity.com

The Church at Rome, which would later develop into what we know as Roman Catholicism, was started in the apostolic times (circa AD 30-95). Although we do not have records of the first Christian missionaries to Rome, it is obvious that a church existed there as the New Testament Scriptures were being written. St. Paul himself wrote an epistle to the church at Rome, and the Book of Acts records some of his dealings there. St. Clement of Rome (ca. 35-99), St. Ignatius of Antioch (35-108), and St. Irenaeus of Lyons (130-202) all speak as if St. Simon Peter ministered in Rome, serving as its first bishop (the term “bishop” is an English contraction of the biblical Greek word episkopos, often translated as “overseer” in modern Protestant translations of the New Testament). Tertullian (ca. 155-240) reported that Peter died in the same place as Paul, and it is commonly believed that Paul was martyred in Rome. Since both Peter and Paul were such important and prominent apostles, Rome became an important pilgrimage site for Christians who wanted to visit their graves and worship near where they were buried.

Because of the tie to Peter and Paul (as well as the fact that Rome was the capital city of the western portion of the Roman Empire), the bishop of Rome became the most prominent of the western Christian ecclesiastical leaders


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So Peter himself was an evil Roman Catholic?

 

[RichWh1]

Actually he was not. He was a Christian as they were first called in Antioch
Nowhere in Scripture is Peter called Roman Catholic.


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[NathanH83]

Actually he was not. He was a Christian as they were first called in Antioch
Nowhere in Scripture is Peter called Roman Catholic.


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Ok, so then when did Roman Catholicism begin? My guess would be sometime in the 300’s. But I don’t know.

 

[RichWh1]

Ok, so then when did Roman Catholicism begin? My guess would be sometime in the 300’s. But I don’t know.

According to The Moody Handbook of Theology, the official beginning of the Roman Catholic church occurred in 590 CE, with Pope Gregory I. This time marked the consolidated of lands controlled by authority of the pope, and thus the church's power, into what would later be known as "the Papal States."

551 CE:At the Council of Chalcedon, the head of the church in Constantinople was declared to be the head of the Eastern branch of the church, equal in authority to the Pope. This effectively was the start of the division of the church into the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic branch

The Orthodox Church and the Roman Church were both part of the Catholic Church. After the schism, the Orthodox and Roman both took on the title Catholic, hence the origin of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[NathanH83]

According to The Moody Handbook of Theology, the official beginning of the Roman Catholic church occurred in 590 CE, with Pope Gregory I. This time marked the consolidated of lands controlled by authority of the pope, and thus the church's power, into what would later be known as "the Papal States."

551 CE:At the Council of Chalcedon, the head of the church in Constantinople was declared to be the head of the Eastern branch of the church, equal in authority to the Pope. This effectively was the start of the division of the church into the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic branch

The Orthodox Church and the Roman Church were both part of the Catholic Church. After the schism, the Orthodox and Roman both took on the title Catholic, hence the origin of the Roman Catholic Church.

Interesting

 

[Josiah]

The one, holy, catholic church is usually held to have begun at Pentecost.

This church was not a organization, it was a movement - made up of people, people with the divine gift of faith in Christ as the Savior. It was "catholic" because it embraced ALL believers - wherever they were, in heaven and on earth. It was "orthodox" because it was part of a tradition reaching back to Christ. And those two ADJECTIVES ("catholic" and "orthodox") were used to describe the one, holy church - the communion of believers.

For 300 years, this was largely an underground, loose, movement. There were congregations (typically informal house churches) but very little organization beyond that - nothing we could call a "denomination." This was advantagious since Christianity was an illegal religion and often persecuted.... it did not serve the movement well to have leaders, headquarters, lists, buildings. Now, in this time, there were SOME (a few) characteristics of a denomination - very rare local meetings.... cooperation in charity and mission work.... eventualy bishops that oversaw more than one parish - but all this was very local and very informal. We have precious few documents from this period since there simply was not a denomination to make them. INDIVIDUAL Christians... INDIVIDUAL congreagations... no pan Christian organization.

All that changed in 313. Christianity became a ROMAN religion and ROME formed the first denomination in its own image very much a carbon copy of typical Roman institutions. And it wanted something structured and in unity (thus, the early Ecumenical Councils - called and lead by the Ceasar). I think it is HERE that we can - for the first time in history - speak of a Christian denomination or organization. But it was NOT "Roman Catholic" (nor was it Eastern Orthodox) - it was one denomination that had a strong East-West difference; it's appropriate to speak of the Eastern church (Greek) and Western church (Latin) but both were part of one organization (that officially ended in 1054).

SO... IMO, we can say that un 313, the PROTO to both the RCC and EOC came into existence, the first denomination. But the RCC and EOC as we know them came into existence in 1054 when this PROTO Roman Church split into the Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Church(es).



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[Stephen]

The term Roman Catholic Church instead of the proper title Catholic Church was an invention of the Reformation.

 

[Stephen]

The Orthodox Church and the Roman Church were both part of the Catholic Church. After the schism, the Orthodox and Roman both took on the title Catholic, hence the origin of the Roman Catholic Church.

The official longer name of both Catholic and Orthodox Churches at the Schism was “One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church” and they retained those titles after the Schism.

 

[RichWh1]

The official longer name of both Catholic and Orthodox Churches at the Schism was “One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church” and they retained those titles after the Schism.

The word “catholic “ was a small c not Big C as the denomination is today.
The word means‘universal’ not a denomination!!

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[Josiah]

The official longer name of both Catholic and Orthodox Churches at the Schism was “One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church” and they retained those titles after the Schism.

I respectfully disagree.

The adjectives "one" "holy" "catholic" apostolic" refer to the communion of all believers, not to a specific denomination. The very modern trick in English speaking countries of capitolizing those terms (perhaps in the Creed) to imply they are proper names is... well.... unfortunate (but rare - most Catholics use the terms in lower case, as the adjectives they are).

The denomination that came into being upon the creation by the Roman Empire was simply the Roman Church, the church of the empire. Parishes outside that simply were not recognized since they were not part of the Empire's establishment. As West and East parts of that denomination widened, the West came to be known increasingly as the Latin Church (Latin speaking part) and the East as Greek Church (Greek speaking part) but these were not monikers, simply ways to note the division in worship, theology, customs, etc. that increasingly differed (and finally - officially - created two denominations in 1054).

As our friend Rich noted above, "catholic" was and is primarily an adjective - and that's all it was for centuries. Yes, eventually the Latin Church assumed that denominational moniker (prideful as that was, LOL - but then lots of denominational monikers are very prideful). But "Catholic" and "catholic" are two very different things. Yes there is the catholic church to which ALL the baptized belong (it's universal) with Christ as the Head and spread out over all the continents and centuries - the church to which both Martin Luther and Pope John Paul II and Joel Olsteem belong by virtue of their baptism and faith. And there is The Catholic Church, the largest of the thousands of denominations headquartered in Rome, Italy. Both wonderful things but not the same thing.


Blessings


Josiah




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[Stephen]

one, holy, catholic and apostolic church (not capitalised) is correct as a description
One Holy Catholic And Apostolic Church (capitalised) is correct as a title.

What a Church is known as is not necessarily the same as it's official title.
Roman Catholic Church is a good example . It is known by that name by many Protestants but it's official title is One Holy Catholic And Apostolic Church, commonly abbreviated to Catholic Church. So the Catechism is the Catechism Of The Catholic Church, not Roman Catholic Church.
The Roman Church was a reference to the Church in Rome, just as you might talk about the London Church or Boston Church. It was not a designation of the whole Church.

 

[Tigger]

How can two separate entities properly be called 'one', holy, catholic and apostolic church and be in schism at the sametime?

 

[RichWh1]

How can two separate entities properly be called 'one', holy, catholic and apostolic church and be in schism at the sametime?

Two entities are not called ‘one’. The church was in existence before any schism took place. The adjectives refer to the church as a singular entity.


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[Faithhopeandcharity]

When it was founded by Christ on Peter matt 16:18-19 but officially at Pentecost!
Christ is King of Glory!

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, (acts 2:17 last days began at Pentecost) that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, (Israel) and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Jesus Christ is king!

We must submit and obey the king of kings!

And His authorized ministers that He Himself appointed!

Matt 16:18-19 & 28:28 eph 2:20 Jn 20:21-23

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

 

[Josiah]

When it was founded by Christ on Peter matt 16:18-19 but officially at Pentecost!
Christ is King of Glory!

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, (acts 2:17 last days began at Pentecost) that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, (Israel) and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Jesus Christ is king!

We must submit and obey the king of kings!

And His authorized ministers that He Himself appointed!

Matt 16:18-19 & 28:28 eph 2:20 Jn 20:21-23

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Thanks for so powerfully proving that Scripture says NOTHING about the Roman Catholic Church... and that the self-serving, self-centered, egotistical, power-grabbing claims of the individual RCC for it itself are without Biblical support. Yup. You're right.




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[Faithhopeandcharity]

Thanks for so powerfully proving that Scripture says NOTHING about the Roman Catholic Church... and that the self-serving, self-centered, egotistical, power-grabbing claims of the individual RCC for it itself are without Biblical support. Yup. You're right.




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We must admit there is a moral necessity for divine revelation:
And that this divine revelation must be conveyed to all men without change or error:

Virtues are supernatural helps from God to do His will!

Faith is an intellectual assent to a truth revealed by Christ and proposed by His holy church for our belief!

“Faith is the virtue by which we firmly believe all the truths God has revealed, on the word of God revealing them, who can neither deceive nor be deceived (John 20:29)”

Act of Faith
O my God, I firmly believe that Thou art one God in three Divine Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I believe that Thy Divine Son became man and died for our sins, and that He will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe these and all the truths which the Holy Catholic Church teaches, because Thou hast revealed them, Who canst neither deceive nor be deceived. Amen.

The nature of vice and virtue:

Pride by its nature must always be in rebellion and protest!
Alway says no, I will not serve!
Always associated with presumption and arrogance!

Humility by its nature must obey, and be faithful! Unless you become like little children. Matt 18:3 always associated with faith, hope, and charity!

The truth is filled with virtues and sets us free!
The doctrine of devils is filled with the vices of the devils to ensnare those who refuse to listen to the truth from the bosom of holy mother church!




1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32
The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14

Dan 2:44 Isa 2:2 Micah 4:1 fulfilled in matt 5:14

matt 16:18-19 shall not prevail
Matt 18:17 hear the truth from the church
1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar and ground of truth.

Faith ascents & never protests or rebels!
Spiritual Pride protests & is always in rebellion

The nature of spiritual pride is rebellion!
Spiritual pride must protest, and must be right!

Christ and His one true church cannot be right or my self-righteous personal interpretation base on spiritual pride and private judgement must be wrong, and that is unacceptable!

Truth must be revealed by God, and taught by the church, proposed for our belief, we must be instructed!
Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 Acts 8:31 Lk 10:16 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42


Nature of doctrine:

Truth or doctrine MUST be Revealed by God And Proposed by the church for belief, not spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
Claim: “scripture alone”
It’s really just the ugly repugnant pride!
It’s no faith at all only spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
They Hope in creatures not in God!

It is unlawful to refuse to accept a truth revealed by God!

Matt 28:19 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Truth matters! It is revealed by God and therefore CANNOT be changed!
The church likewise is founded by Christ and therefore CANNOT be reformed!

 

[Josiah]

“Faith is the virtue by which we firmly believe all the truths God has revealed, on the word of God revealing them, who can neither deceive nor be deceived (John 20:29)”

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Acts 9:4 eph 5:32
Jn 14:6 Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23
(Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)
Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14

Dan 2:44 Isa 2:2 Micah 4:1 matt 5:14

matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:17
1 Tim 3:15

Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 Acts 8:31 Lk 10:16 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42

Matt 28:19 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Thanks for so powerfully proving that Scripture says NOTHING about the Roman Catholic Church... and that the self-serving, self-centered, egotistical, power-grabbing claims of the individual RCC for it itself are without Biblical support. Yup. You're right.






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[Josiah]

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