God's hatred cannot be disputed.

[greyhawke]

Scripture teaches that God does not love all people. He loves the sheep and hates the goats. Neither is his love unconditional:-

Sirach 12:6 ¶ For the Most High also hates sinners and will inflict punishment on the ungodly.

Psalm 5:5 ¶ The boastful will not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers.

Psalm 11:5 ¶ The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and his soul hates the lover of violence.

Hosea 9:15 ¶ Every evil of theirs began at Gilgal; there I came to hate them. Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of my house. I will love them no more; all their officials are rebels.

Leviticus 20:23 ¶ You shall not follow the practices of the nation that I am driving out before you. Because they did all these things, I abhorred them.

Romans 9:13 ¶ As it is written, ‘I have loved Jacob, but I have hated Esau.’

Now, the Book of Sirach, or Ecclesiasticus is a Deuterocanonical book of the Old Testament, which is the only book that is disputed by Protestant Christians; nevertheless, Psalm 5:5 is the one passage that is most closely resembling of Sirach 12:6; for they have both claimed that God hates all evildoers and sinners, which is the most crucial point of this entire thread.

Besides Sirach 12:6, all the other passages are unanimously accepted by Christians worldwide.

Consequently, there can be no question that God hates all evildoers and sinners.

That is the most crucial point.

Please discuss the aforementioned.

 

[NathanH83]

There’s no need to quote Sirach. That book doesn’t belong in the Bible.

 

[greyhawke]

There’s no need to quote Sirach. That book doesn’t belong in the Bible.

Regardless of the omission of Sirach, Psalm 5:5 (and the other passages) has clearly stated that God hates all evildoers and sinners.

For Christians worldwide, it is indisputable; but still disputed by atheists, and other religions.

However, this is a Christian-only forum, and that settles the matter.

 

[Josiah]

God hates all sin.
All people are sinful.
God loves all people.

There's no contradiction. God hates our sin. God is love. His love flows from who HE is, not who WE are.



.

 

[greyhawke]

God hates all sin.
All people are sinful.
God loves all people.

There's no contradiction. God hates our sin. God is love. His love flows from who HE is, not who WE are.



.

Wrong. God doesn't love all people because the above scripture has clearly testified that he hates sinners.

Presupposing that the scripture is correct, then you are most certainly wrong (vice versa); but you can't both be right.

There is no contradiction because God hates all sins (proverbs 6:16-19) AND He also hates the people who've sinned (Psalm 5:5 & 11:5; Hosea 9:15; Leviticus 20:23; Romans 9:13).

Unless you intend to refute the above scripture, then it is absolutely true that God hates the people who've sinned.

There is no way that you could possibly refute the scripture cited, which says that God hates people who've sinned.

Not only does God hate sin, but he also hates the people who've sinned.

There is a Huge difference between God's hatred of sins and his hatred of people who've sinned, but he hates Both of them, which cannot be refuted according to the above scripture.

Is it too difficult for you to understand the subtle difference?

Besides, WHO are "we", because you are not the same as Jesus Christ, Son of God?

 

[Josiah]

God hates all sin.
All people are sinful.
God loves all people.

There's no contradiction.



.

Wrong. God doesn't love all people because the above scripture has clearly testified that he hates sinners.

Wrong.

Scripture states that God hates sin and loves all people. And the Bible is NOT wrong!!!

You assume that "hate" and "love" are opposites. Not so. Read Romans 5:8. "Hate" has to do with disapproval, "love" has to do with favor. I have a 3 year old son. I OFTEN disapprove of him, I ALWAYS love him; like the heavenly Father, I'd die for this one I disapprove of because I love him.

God hates all sin (proverbs 6:16-19) AND He hates the people who've sinned (Psalm 5:5 & 11:5; Hosea 9:15; Leviticus 20:23; Romans 9:13).

Unless you intend to refute the above scripture, then it is absolutely true that God hates the people who've sinned.

... not only so, but He hates all people who have not sinned; He hates SIN not just sinners.

You have this correct. But you are denying that God loves all.


John 3:16 "the WORLD"....

Mark 12:31. God COMMANDS all to love everyone.... does God sin by not doing the same?

God IS love, the Bible says (and it's NOT wrong!). His love to us flows from who HE is, not who WE are. Thus, like any good father, He both disapproves ("hate") AND loves.... everyone.






.

 

[greyhawke]

Wrong.

Scripture states that God hates sin and loves all people. And the Bible is NOT wrong!!!

You assume that "hate" and "love" are opposites. Not so. Read Romans 5:8. "Hate" has to do with disapproval, "love" has to do with favor. I have a 3 year old son. I OFTEN disapprove of him, I ALWAYS love him; like the heavenly Father, I'd die for this one I disapprove of because I love him.







... not only so, but He hates all people who have not sinned; He hates SIN not just sinners.

You have this correct. But you are denying that God loves all.


John 3:16 "the WORLD"....

Mark 12:31. God COMMANDS all to love everyone.... does God sin by not doing the same?

God IS love, the Bible says (and it's NOT wrong!). His love to us flows from who HE is, not who WE are. Thus, like any good father, He both disapproves ("hate") AND loves.... everyone.






.

Wrong. God doesn't love all people because the scripture has clearly said that He hates sinners.

Love and hate are mutually exclusive; for it is impossible to love AND hate the same person at the once.

You can't have it both ways; it's either love or hate, but you can't have them both, because you can't love AND hate the same person at once.

Who is right? You or the scripture?

Obviously, the scripture is correct, but you are most certainly wrong.

 

[Josiah]

Wrong. God doesn't love all people because the scripture has clearly said that He hates sinners.

Scripture says God HATES sin (not just sinners)....and He loves all. Contrary to Scriptures like Romans 5:8 and contrary to dictionaries (!), you ASSUME some contradiction that doesn't exist. Not even among humans..... IF love could only exist where sin does not then love would not exist (duh!).... perhaps you are not married, likely you are not a parent or you'd KNOW (very clearly) that disapproval and love co-exist... WHENEVER there is love. There are no sinless people to love, my friend.

Seems to me you not only are ignoring MANY Scriptures.... and all of life experience.... but you perhaps have watered down sin to where it's meaningless (how else do you come up with billions of people without sin?) and (worse) have watered down love until it is less than meaningless (indeed, nothing more than approval).




.

 

[greyhawke]

Scripture says God HATES sin (not just sinners)....and He loves all. Contrary to Scriptures like Romans 5:8 and contrary to dictionaries (!), you ASSUME some contradiction that doesn't exist. Not even among humans..... IF love could only exist where sin does not then love would not exist (duh!).... perhaps you are not married, likely you are not a parent or you'd KNOW (very clearly) that disapproval and love co-exist... WHENEVER there is love. There are no sinless people to love, my friend.

Seems to me you not only are ignoring MANY Scriptures.... and all of life experience.... but you perhaps have watered down sin to where it's meaningless (how else do you come up with billions of people without sin?) and (worse) have watered down love until it is less than meaningless (indeed, nothing more than approval).




.

Basically, I think you are wrong to challenge God's authority on this matter, and at the same time to have assumed that you can still go to heaven.

How asinine to assume that God is on the same level as you, a mere mortal; what religion do you call it, because it certainly isn't Christianity?

 

[Josiah]

How asinine to assume that God is on the same level as you, a mere mortal; what religion do you call it, because it certainly isn't Christianity?

Basically, I believe what God has said whereas you deny it.

Basically, I believe that God hates sin (always, everywhere) because the Bible says so.... and that God loves all (always, everywhere) because the Bible says so.

Basically, you are silly to insist that God cannot love those who are sinners. Since all are sinful, your view is that God loves no one... and that God's command that we love all (sinners) He is commanding us to do something not possible and that He does not do.

Basically, I think you think John 3:16 says, "For God so loves those who are not sinful so that He gave His only begotten Son but for no reason since there was nothing for Him to do or forgive, a waste of time."

Basically, I suspect you think God loves you and thus you are without sin (and thus need no God, no Cross, no Savior, no grace, no mercy) and that Romans 5:8 is wrong and Paul was mistaken when he wrote that "ALL have sinned" because He loves you but cannot love sin.



.

 

[pinacled]

Wrong. God doesn't love all people because the above scripture has clearly testified that he hates sinners.

Presupposing that the scripture is correct, then you are most certainly wrong (vice versa); but you can't both be right.

There is no contradiction because God hates all sins (proverbs 6:16-19) AND He also hates the people who've sinned (Psalm 5:5 & 11:5; Hosea 9:15; Leviticus 20:23; Romans 9:13).

Unless you intend to refute the above scripture, then it is absolutely true that God hates the people who've sinned.

There is no way that you could possibly refute the scripture cited, which says that God hates people who've sinned.

Not only does God hate sin, but he also hates the people who've sinned.

There is a Huge difference between God's hatred of sins and his hatred of people who've sinned, but he hates Both of them, which cannot be refuted according to the above scripture.

Is it too difficult for you to understand the subtle difference?

Besides, WHO are "we", because you are not the same as Jesus Christ, Son of God?

Incorrect.

Only the ungodly are loathed.
Meaning the loathed are those that have received the mark of the beast

 

[pinacled]

Wrong. God doesn't love all people because the above scripture has clearly testified that he hates sinners.

Presupposing that the scripture is correct, then you are most certainly wrong (vice versa); but you can't both be right.

There is no contradiction because God hates all sins (proverbs 6:16-19) AND He also hates the people who've sinned (Psalm 5:5 & 11:5; Hosea 9:15; Leviticus 20:23; Romans 9:13).

Unless you intend to refute the above scripture, then it is absolutely true that God hates the people who've sinned.

There is no way that you could possibly refute the scripture cited, which says that God hates people who've sinned.

Not only does God hate sin, but he also hates the people who've sinned.

There is a Huge difference between God's hatred of sins and his hatred of people who've sinned, but he hates Both of them, which cannot be refuted according to the above scripture.

Is it too difficult for you to understand the subtle difference?

Besides, WHO are "we", because you are not the same as Jesus Christ, Son of God?

All is forgiven except....
A satanist sent on a mission to distract is an obvious feint.

 

[Andrew]

Incorrect.

Only the ungodly are loathed.
Meaning the loathed are those that have received the mark of the beast

True.
The lake of fire is reserved for the devil and his angels and all who receive the mark of the beast (opposed to the mark of God).

These can be siders with persecutors and of worldly goods, ie. promoters of the false doctrine of prosperity are both in favor of obtaining wealth, health and worldly possessions as well as discriminating against the poor and laden as lacking faith and not being "blessed" by God.

 

[pinacled]

True.
The lake of fire is reserved for the devil and his angels and all who receive the mark of the beast (opposed to the mark of God).

These can be siders with persecutors and of worldly goods, ie. promoters of the false doctrine of prosperity are both in favor of obtaining wealth, health and worldly possessions as well as discriminating against the poor and laden as lacking faith and not being "blessed" by God.

Are you admitting there is only a single lake?
Or are you promoting an inferior lake of fire called purgatory.

Choose your water wisely.
[staff edit]

 

[greyhawke]

Basically, I believe what God has said whereas you deny it.

Basically, I believe that God hates sin (always, everywhere) because the Bible says so.... and that God loves all (always, everywhere) because the Bible says so.

Basically, you are silly to insist that God cannot love those who are sinners. Since all are sinful, your view is that God loves no one... and that God's command that we love all (sinners) He is commanding us to do something not possible and that He does not do.

Basically, I think you think John 3:16 says, "For God so loves those who are not sinful so that He gave His only begotten Son but for no reason since there was nothing for Him to do or forgive, a waste of time."

Basically, I suspect you think God loves you and thus you are without sin (and thus need no God, no Cross, no Savior, no grace, no mercy) and that Romans 5:8 is wrong and Paul was mistaken when he wrote that "ALL have sinned" because He loves you but cannot love sin.



.

By definition, Jesus Christ is the only human who doesn't require salvation at all; the only one who is exempted from the Judgment of God, for he himself is the Judge of all (John 5:22, 23, 30 & Matthew 25:31-33); but you yourself have no understanding of the Christian Bible.

 

[greyhawke]

Incorrect.

Only the ungodly are loathed.
Meaning the loathed are those that have received the mark of the beast

By definition, you have simply concurred with the key point about this thread.

Obviously, God doesn't love all people if he hates all the evildoers and sinners.

Love and hatred are mutually exclusive and cannot coexist at all.

 

[greyhawke]

True.
The lake of fire is reserved for the devil and his angels and all who receive the mark of the beast (opposed to the mark of God).

These can be siders with persecutors and of worldly goods, ie. promoters of the false doctrine of prosperity are both in favor of obtaining wealth, health and worldly possessions as well as discriminating against the poor and laden as lacking faith and not being "blessed" by God.

By definition, those who've received the mark of the beast are the same ones who've "disobeyed the Gospel of Jesus Christ" (2 Thessalonians 1:8) due to their "disbelief" in God's only begotten Son (John 3:16).

Consequently, the mark of the beast is just a different perspective, and a different way of expressing the same problem in hamartiology and soteriology.

 

[greyhawke]

All is forgiven except....
A satanist sent on a mission to distract is an obvious feint.

Please clarify this.

 

[pinacled]

By definition, you have simply concurred with the key point about this thread.

Obviously, God doesn't love all people if he hates all the evildoers and sinners.

Love and hatred are mutually exclusive and cannot coexist at all.

Love and hate don't mutually exist..

Purgatory is the strange fire warned about and offered by luciferian filth.
That cook using feces

 

[pinacled]

By definition, those who've received the mark of the beast are the same ones who've "disobeyed the Gospel of Jesus Christ" (2 Thessalonians 1:8) due to their "disbelief" in God's only begotten Son (John 3:16).

Consequently, the mark of the beast is just a different perspective, and a different way of expressing the same problem in hamartiology and soteriology.

Denial of salvation under the holy name is what leads to the mark.

A betrail called commodity