Why are there some Christians who are obsessed with Flat Earth Conspiracy?

[Origen]

The bottom line is that anything, no matter how outrageous, that supports the flat earth theory is true. And anything that shows the earth is a sphere is either a conspiracy, fake, or an outright lie.

 

[Joshua1Eight]

Christopher Columbus discovered that the Earth is round. This has already been discovered.

 

[Stravinsk]

I talked to a few Flat Earthers. The bottom line is that anything, no matter how outrageous, that supports the flat earth theory is true. And anything that shows the earth is a sphere is either a conspiracy, fake, or an outright lie.

So here I am, and I can tell you that your generalization is false. I said so in my first post. Most flat-earthers subscribe to the pizza shaped model (I used to), but I don't and further, I only consider evidence as my guide, nothing outrageous.

As for lies, there are lots and lots of them. Most people's "overwhelming evidence" is a mixture of upbringing, public education, movies, and lots of NASA photos (and other "space" agencies).

For instance. These pictures taken from a training manual dated 1953 from the U.S. Navy call "Fire Control Fundamentals" shows that if you were being trained as a gunnery officer on a battleship you had to take into account the curvature of the earth and the rotation of the earth for long range targets. Flat Earthers dismiss this type of thing as false/fake, even though it is well documented and was standard training for gunnery officers for decades. Of course, the computer programs that control guided missiles now have to account for the same factors in our modern military.

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You've shown us a cartoon. May I see the source please?

I would also like to know if the same considerations are used in low flying Jet planes traveling at very high speeds across the ocean. Does their gyroscope account for the earth's curve? Don't assume anything, unless you know how gyroscopes work . Do they have to angle up not to eventually crash into the ocean? Heheh.

Of course there is the submarine as well. It carries tanks in it to fill and release compressed air in order to travel up by buoyancy, or down by density (release of air). Eventually a submarine traveling at a great distance is going to surface (due to the curve of the earth) if these tanks are not carefully designed to keep it at the same depth during it's journey.

Perhaps you can find a cartoon for that one as well?

Contrary to your exclamations, I find it is the already biased who will "take anything" as evidence of their indoctrination, including the cartoon you posted.

 

[Stravinsk]

A couple of questions for those who claim to believe the bible. These two statements:

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

and

Matthew 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

- both claim the earth is God's footstool. Your foot is shaped roughly like a rectangle. Do you believe God made an oopsie when he drew man's attention to feet to describe the earth? Have you ever used a globe shaped footstool? Doesn't it have to be huge so that you can fit both feet on it comfortably without them sliding off?

Perhaps one of you bible believers can explain to me how all nations will see the second coming of Christ if they are on opposite sides of a Globe?

 

[NathanH83]

A couple of questions for those who claim to believe the bible. These two statements:

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

and

Matthew 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

- both claim the earth is God's footstool. Your foot is shaped roughly like a rectangle. Do you believe God made an oopsie when he drew man's attention to feet to describe the earth? Have you ever used a globe shaped footstool? Doesn't it have to be huge so that you can fit both feet on it comfortably without them sliding off?

Perhaps one of you bible believers can explain to me how all nations will see the second coming of Christ if they are on opposite sides of a Globe?

What do you think about this verse?

“It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.”
-Isaiah 40:22 (Douay Rheims)

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 40:22 - Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.

www.biblegateway.com

The….GLOBE of the Earth?

 

[Stravinsk]

What do you think about this verse?

“It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.”
-Isaiah 40:22 (Douay Rheims)

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 40:22 - Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.

www.biblegateway.com

The….GLOBE of the Earth?

I think you are using a translation that does not render the words correctly.

Strongs H2329

חוּג​

does not mean "globe" or "ball". It means "circuit" or "vault of heaven". Something that continues on in repetition (as from a single point in a circle around to the same point, but not necessarily using this geometry)

Here in this other Scripture Isaiah does use the word for "ball" or "circle":

Isaiah 22:18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.

Here the Hebrew word is different. It is H1754

דּוּר​

References:

Circuit: H2329 - ḥûḡ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

Circle or Ball: H1754 - dûr - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

 

[Stravinsk]

Also, @NathanH83

You may ask yourself how the heavens in the verse you quoted can be spread as "a curtain" or "a tent" over the earth, reading further in the verse you mentioned. Are the heavens spread out solely to encompass Globe Earth as a dwelling place in the cosmology you believe?

Or is earth just a lonely planet in one universe, with thousands of other universes out there with their own suns and planets? Did God fib again with Isaiah describing the heavens as a tent or curtain *for earth*?

 

[Joshua1Eight]

What do you think about this verse?

“It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.”
-Isaiah 40:22 (Douay Rheims)

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 40:22 - Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.

www.biblegateway.com

The….GLOBE of the Earth?

I’m a Catholic, and I knew our Bible rightly says “globe.” That’s why no Catholics are flath-earthers.

 

[NathanH83]

Also, @NathanH83

You may ask yourself how the heavens in the verse you quoted can be spread as "a curtain" or "a tent" over the earth, reading further in the verse you mentioned. Are the heavens spread out solely to encompass Globe Earth as a dwelling place in the cosmology you believe?

Or is earth just a lonely planet in one universe, with thousands of other universes out there with their own suns and planets? Did God fib again with Isaiah describing the heavens as a tent or curtain *for earth*?

Lots of the things in the Bible are poetic. Do you think Flat Earth theory better describes it?

 

[NathanH83]

I think you are using a translation that does not render the words correctly.

Strongs H2329

חוּג​

does not mean "globe" or "ball". It means "circuit" or "vault of heaven". Something that continues on in repetition (as from a single point in a circle around to the same point, but not necessarily using this geometry)

Here in this other Scripture Isaiah does use the word for "ball" or "circle":

Isaiah 22:18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.

Here the Hebrew word is different. It is H1754

דּוּר​

References:

Circuit: H2329 - ḥûḡ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

Circle or Ball: H1754 - dûr - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

There’s a video I made about unicorns in the Bible, which determines that unicorns are actually rhinos. I found that the Douay-Rheims is the only translation that correctly says rhinoceros in Deut. 33:17. Other translations either say wild ox or unicorn, which isn’t really accurate.

Ironically, the translation not only gets rhinoceros correct, but it also gets globe correct. Coincidence? I think not.

Now, I’m not defending the Douay Rheims, as it has lots of other corruptions in it. But I do believe it’s valuable, being a strict translation of the Latin Vulgate, and I do believe it gets SOME things right that all other translations get wrong.

 

[Origen]

Christopher Columbus discovered that the Earth is round. This has already been discovered.

That is a myth. He didn't discover that the Earth is round. Christopher Columbus already knew the Earth was round.

 

[Josiah]

Christopher Columbus discovered that the Earth is round. This has already been discovered.

Actually, as I understand it, it had been known that the Earth is round for thousands of years before Columbus.... the Ancient Egyptians knew this, the ancient Hawaiians knew this. The ancient Greeks even figured out the size of the Earth (very accurately). Columbus knew all this from his navigation training. Thing is, he was bad at math. And his wrong math told him the Earth is a lot smaller than the Greeks had determined some 2000 years earlier and as he was taught, so while everyone else held that the Atlantic Ocean was HUGE, covering nearly 2/3s of the planet, he thought the planet was so small that the latest advancement in ships enabled Asia to be reached by going west. He was wrong, of course. But while most thought it very likely he would just die out there in the ocean, luck was with him and (just in the nick of time) he bumped into land European's didn't know about. Luck.... for a wrong man who was really bad at math. Funny how things work sometimes, LOL.




.

 

[Stravinsk]

Lots of people airing their so called educated opinions, far less answering my questions. Telling.

 

[Stravinsk]

There’s a video I made about unicorns in the Bible, which determines that unicorns are actually rhinos. I found that the Douay-Rheims is the only translation that correctly says rhinoceros in Deut. 33:17. Other translations either say wild ox or unicorn, which isn’t really accurate.

Ironically, the translation not only gets rhinoceros correct, but it also gets globe correct. Coincidence? I think not.

Now, I’m not defending the Douay Rheims, as it has lots of other corruptions in it. But I do believe it’s valuable, being a strict translation of the Latin Vulgate, and I do believe it gets SOME things right that all other translations get wrong.

Right, you believe that because of your upbringing, education and entertainment. Therefore if a translation agrees, it's right too.

Now answer my questions. You quoted Isaiah 40. Did God stretch out the heavens like a curtain and a tent -for the earth- or is earth just a spec in a vast galaxy of other suns and universes?

Do stars fall to the earth or was John the Revelator fibbing also?

Can you name a single place where God says he created space or "planets"?

Why does God fib when he says that water is above the firmament instead of space?

Have you ever seen a footstool shaped like a globe?

Why does God fib when declaring the earth doesn't move?

Why does God condemn sun worship when we all dance around the sun and our (Catholic) Calendar is purely solar based?

Do stars sing? Does that mean the sun sings too?

 

[Stravinsk]

Lots of the things in the Bible are poetic. Do you think Flat Earth theory better describes it?

This is Christian double speak for "the bible is lying but I don't want to say so". Let's not kid each other. Clearly there are poetic parts of the bible, and this is usually obvious.

I don't suppose saying Jesus rising from the grave is poetic fits that bill? After all, He rose on the 3rd day....same as Jonah exiting the sea onto dry land. Now read Genesis...dry land appears on the 3rd day and it's the first day plants rise. Coincidence? Maybe Jesus is really just a metaphor for plant life. See how poetic that is?

Edit: No yeast required *ahem*...rising during feast of unleavened. Hint Hint...

 

[Josiah]

Science and Christianity

. I have a Ph.D. in physics. My older sister has a Ph.D. in biology. We both accept science and we both accept the Bible as inerrant. I'm Lutheran, she's Catholic. We are both strong, active Christians. She still works as a scientist, I did but no longer do. In some ways, Science and...

www.christianityhaven.com

.

 

[Lanman87]

You've shown us a cartoon. May I see the source please?

A copy of "Fire Control Fundamentals" can be found at https://maritime.org/doc/firecontrol/index.htm This is the website of the San Francisco Maritime National Park Association.

I would also like to know if the same considerations are used in low flying Jet planes traveling at very high speeds across the ocean. Does their gyroscope account for the earth's curve? Don't assume anything, unless you know how gyroscopes work . Do they have to angle up not to eventually crash into the ocean? Heheh.

Of course there is the submarine as well. It carries tanks in it to fill and release compressed air in order to travel up by buoyancy, or down by density (release of air). Eventually a submarine traveling at a great distance is going to surface (due to the curve of the earth) if these tanks are not carefully designed to keep it at the same depth during it's journey.

If you are a pilot who is flying at 35,000 feet then your are going to keep your plane at 35,000 feet relative the ground. If you are in a submarine at -300 feet then you are going to keep your submarine and -300 feet relative to the surface. There is not much mystery in that.

Contrary to your exclamations, I find it is the already biased who will "take anything" as evidence of their indoctrination, including the cartoon you posted.

The "Cartoon" I posted is a verified document of the US Military. Do you deny that battleship gunnery officers were taught to take into account the curvature of the earth in making long rang shots from battleships? I've shown evidence that it as common knowledge and teaching of the U.S. Navy. Where is your evidence that it was not common knowledge and taught by the US Navy?

 

[Stravinsk]

If you are a pilot who is flying at 35,000 feet then your are going to keep your plane at 35,000 feet relative the ground. If you are in a submarine at -300 feet then you are going to keep your submarine and -300 feet relative to the surface. There is not much mystery in that.

The "Cartoon" I posted is a verified document of the US Military. Do you deny that battleship gunnery officers were taught to take into account the curvature of the earth in making long rang shots from battleships? I've shown evidence that it as common knowledge and teaching of the U.S. Navy. Where is your evidence that it was not common knowledge and taught by the US Navy?

First of all, please do me the basic courtesy of reading the details of what I posted. Did I mention 35,000 feet? No. I said Jet planes flying at high speeds close to the ocean. You know...like the ones on aircraft carriers? There ya go! Surely you've seen footage of such planes flying close to the top of the ocean over at high speeds? How do their gyroscopes account for the earth's curve (similar to your missiles) so that they don't crash into the ocean due to the curve. Surely they must angle up, right? Even just a little bit, right? But gyroscopes don't take this into account.

Submarines....dude...you believe the earth is curved...oceans too. That means that the sub will gradually rise to the point where it surfaces due to curve of the earth, traveling enough distance. (btw...I didn't mention 300feet or any depth...)....unless they account for this in maintaining a (changing) air pressure to keep the sub perpetually submersed. Is this simple logic too hard to comprehend? You have to put it into context...remember...all the earth is curved, including the oceans subs travel in according to you.

 

[NathanH83]

This is Christian double speak for "the bible is lying but I don't want to say so". Let's not kid each other. Clearly there are poetic parts of the bible, and this is usually obvious.

I don't suppose saying Jesus rising from the grave is poetic fits that bill? After all, He rose on the 3rd day....same as Jonah exiting the sea onto dry land. Now read Genesis...dry land appears on the 3rd day and it's the first day plants rise. Coincidence? Maybe Jesus is really just a metaphor for plant life. See how poetic that is?

Edit: No yeast required *ahem*...rising during feast of unleavened. Hint Hint...

Do you find that it’s the Bible that convinces you of flat earth, or science? Or both?

 

[Lanman87]

No. I said Jet planes flying at high speeds close to the ocean. You know...like the ones on aircraft carriers? There ya go! Surely you've seen footage of such planes flying close to the top of the ocean over at high speeds? How do their gyroscopes account for the earth's curve (similar to your missiles) so that they don't crash into the ocean due to the curve. Surely they must angle up, right? Even just a little bit, right? But gyroscopes don't take this into account.

Submarines....dude...you believe the earth is curved...oceans too. That means that the sub will gradually rise to the point where it surfaces due to curve of the earth, traveling enough distance. (btw...I didn't mention 300feet or any depth...)....unless they account for this in maintaining a (changing) air pressure to keep the sub perpetually submersed. Is this simple logic too hard to comprehend? You have to put it into context...remember...all the earth is curved, including the oceans subs travel in according to you.

The principal is the same no matter what altitude/depth. The pilot adjust the path to maintain the desired altitude/depth. As long as your flying at an altitude of 30000 feet or 100 feet (or whatever your desired altitude) you are always going to conform to the curve of the earth. The submarine doesn't need to change buoyancy because one they reach the prescribe depth they stay at the prescribe depth. 300 feet (or whatever depth you pick) is the same distance from the surface no matter where you are on the earth. The submarine stays at the same depth from the surface, so as the surface falls away due to curvature, so does the submarine.

Submarine and planes aren't going in a straight flat line. They are going at a constant altitude/depth.

Do you deny that battleship gunnery officers were taught to take into account the curvature of the earth in making long rang shots from battleships? I've shown evidence that it as common knowledge and teaching of the U.S. Navy. Where is your evidence that it was not common knowledge and taught by the US Navy?

Why didn't you answer this question?