I’m not saying that I expect everyone in the world to accept the Apocryphal books.
NATHAN
Brother, I invite and encourage you to READ this.
1. Who here has demanded, "Nathan, it is forbidden for you to read or use some books you won't identify!" Or even "Nathan, you are FORBIDDEN to consider some unidentified books as Scripture!!" Or "It is a sin for a publishing house to put stuff in a book with "BIBLE" written on the front cover in genuine imitation gold letters that Nathan doesn't consider to be fully canonical Scripture!!!" IMO, what the issue is: You constant, perpetual, for over a year now, insistence that some corpus of books (you refuse to identify) ARE to be considered as among The inerrant, fully and equally canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God by US. Brother, it's been YOU suggesting that WE regarding something that way, no one telling you that it's forbidden for YOU to do so. I think you have it exactly backwards.
2. Several of us have specifically said that there
ARE books (thousands, actually) that often
ARE very helpful, inspirational, informational, transformational that are
GOOD to read and use and study and know.... even good for publishing houses to INCLUDE in tomes with "BIBLE" appearing on the cover.
I have specifically mentioned Second Maccabees as among the ones I so consider. No one here has remotely suggested you can't or shouldn't read or use or quote from 2 Maccabees (in fact, no one here has suggested you shouldn't do so for ANY book). I told you that my Lutheran church had done a very extensive study of several books that MIGHT perhaps be among the corpus you haven't identified. You didn't care. I told you that the publishing house owned and operated by The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod publishes a collection of these books - and this is promoted and used in the LCMS. You didn't care. I told you that there are readings from some of these in some Lutheran Lectionaries (read during the Sunday Mass). You didn't care. I told you that Luther's German Translation INCLUDED books which MIGHT be some you are talking about, one MORE than the post-Trent RCC includes in their new Bibles. You didn't care. What did I say that made you believe that I think it's forbidden for you to read, use, quote or hold in esteem books beyond the 66 that John Calvin declared to be Scripture? Because I said nothing of the sort. I don't think anyone did. I think you have it backwards.
3. You have argued that CHRISTIANITY officially/formally declared this (unidentified) corpus of books to be The inerrant, fully and equally canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God by decision of an authoritative, PAN-Christian, ALL-Christianity, ECUMENICAL of The Ruling Body of CHRISTIANITY and WE (all here at CH) must dociilcly submit to this Ruling Body, this kind of Council. But you are wrong. And you refused to state that YOU docilicly submit to such councils (so why should we?). You finally admitted it. NO such action ever happened.... CHRISTIANITY never put anything IN anything, so CHRISTIANITY can't take OUT what it never put IN. You changed this to ALL PROTESTANTISM (all it's 400 million members and some 40,000 denominations) put something IN and then took some OUT but you never could state where either happen because, well, neither did. You kept making ever more absurd, false, UNhistorical claims to suggest something happened - but it was all just falsehoods, as at times you admitted. You kept insisting the BIBLE STATES things (ever weirder thing), you would not quote the verse (then you'd PROVE your claim false) but we read those verses nonetheless and it was proven, yup, another obvious, undeniable, bold falsehood.... repeated on and on and on and on even though it was PROVEN to be false (well, to those who can actually read the words).
4. A year ago, I theorized you may just like hyperbole or are just REALLY sloppy in conveying your ideas. So I gave you LOTS of opportunities to clarify, but you just got more and more wrong, unhistorical, illogical... and evasive, dodging, paying "the shell game". I think you lost a LOT of the community here in the process. Brother, IF (big word there!), IF you had simply said, "Although my Evangelical church seems to dismiss it, I have found some books such as Tobit and Judith and Second Maccabees to be really helpful in my understanding and life. I encourage you to give them a look!" Well, MANY of us here would have given that a big AMEN! But you didn't say that. Or even if you had written, "You know, many Christians include 1 and 2 Maccabees in their biblical tomes!" Again, nothing but "yup." But you went on and on and on and on - for over a year - in thread after thread, post after post, page after page, INSISTING "This verse states" when it CLEARLY does not. "This happened" when it clearly did not. And no one can tell you anything..... You just don't seem to CARE, not a bit, if what you so boldly posted not only is something you can't show is true but is shown to you is untrue... when you state, "this verse states" when all those over the age of 4 who can read KNOW, undeniably, it's just not true. It's too bad actually..... because I think you have some information and insights that could be a blessing here but you've come to be known for false claims, false history, evasion.
I say this NOT to hurt but to help. If I didn't care about you, I would have done what most have - just ignore you. Origen and others have been people of the patience of a saint with you (CH is like that) because we DO care about truth and about each other here.
I’m saying that I don’t appreciate people demanding me to reject the Apocryphal books as scripture ...You don’t want me demanding you put them in? Well, stop demanding that I take them out!
Prime example.
Quote me where I posted: "i demand you reject the Apocraphal books as Scripture."
Quote at least 3 members of the CH community who DEMANDED you rip out some sections of a book your book. I want to read the verbatim quotes of even one here who told you that.
It really is annoying that even though I started reading the Bible in Junior high, and have read it all the way through during high school and in my 20’s, it’s not until NOW in my mid-30’s, that I’m just now finding out what these prophecies in Daniel 8 and 11 are talking about. I’m just now learning what Hebrews 11:35 is referencing. And I’m just now learning what that holiday is that Jesus celebrated in John 10. And I’m just now learning what Hebrews 13:2 meant about people who entertained angels unaware.
Maybe you're in a church of the wrong denomination. Maybe you're taking out your anger on the wrong people.
Maybe IN LIEU OF saying
THAT, you're going on and on and on and on about how ALL CHRISTIANS embraced as full, equal canonical books you won't identify.... about some Council of some Ruling Body you don't submit to did something.... how some verse states something we all with eyes KNOWS that's a lie.... Maybe??
You don’t want people demanding that you add books to your Bible. Well, I don’t want people demanding that I take books out of my Bible!
CHRISTIANITY has done
neither.
PROTESTANTISM has done
neither.
Your individual, singular, unique denomination or pastor
might have... maybe... but that's a whole different enchilada. Your pastor and your congregation is not CHRISTIANITY or PROTESTANTISM or me.
continues in next post....
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