Studying other denominations

[NewCreation435]

What tools would you use to try and study what other denominations believe? I was thinking about looking at possibly changing denominations, but not sure which I would change to. I don't feel like my beliefs are really in alignment anymore with the church I go to. I was thinking either Methodist or Presbyterian or maybe to a non denominational church, though in this area that usually means charismatic

 

[hedrick]

What tools would you use to try and study what other denominations believe? I was thinking about looking at possibly changing denominations, but not sure which I would change to. I don't feel like my beliefs are really in alignment anymore with the church I go to. I was thinking either Methodist or Presbyterian or maybe to a non denominational church, though in this area that usually means charismatic

Presbyterians have official confessions of faith. For the PCUSA you should look at the Confession of 1967 and probably the Brief Statement of the Reformed Faith. The web site would be https://www.presbyterianmission.org/. (There's a pcusa.org, but it has become almost useless. Not sure why they moved the content to a different website.) Conservative Presbyterians use the Westminster Confession, and mostly they're pretty serious about it. Note that there are denominations called "Reformed" that are similar to Presbyterians, with beliefs probably somewhere between the PCUSA and conservative Presbyterian groups.

Methodists believe mostly the same thing the PCUSA does, but don't have a collection of confessional statements. Their web site has statements on specific issues. Note that there are conservative Wesleyan denominations, if you're trying to avoid mainline denominations.

Also consider Lutherans and Anglicans, if you're interested in more liturgical denominations. Again, their mainstream denominations are similar to the PCUSA. But they also have conservative offshoots. The LCMS follows the Book of Concord, and has good information on their web site. I'm not sure of the conservative Episcopal.

The mainline denominations differ a lot among congregations. While the leadership have a pretty coherent theology and ethics, there are conservative congregations. The conservative denominations tend to require uniformity.

Most of these groups have web sites that will point to any official confessions and give you a pretty good idea of their priorities and ministry. However some of the mainline churches haven't been writing new confessions, so their apparently authoritative documents may not show what they actually believe. But generally you can still get a good idea from the web sites.

 

[tango]

What tools would you use to try and study what other denominations believe? I was thinking about looking at possibly changing denominations, but not sure which I would change to. I don't feel like my beliefs are really in alignment anymore with the church I go to. I was thinking either Methodist or Presbyterian or maybe to a non denominational church, though in this area that usually means charismatic

Personally I'd be more inclined to look at things at the church level rather than the denomination level. Sometimes variations within a denomination can be surprising. A church I left some years ago because they were so off-the-scale silly charismatic I couldn't even be sure we were talking about the same god any more was notionally aligned with the Brethren In Christ, and yet another Brethen church barely a mile away refused to share premises because they considered the charismatic church to be evil.

I'd be a little wary of expecting a church to align with desires unless they really are critical for you. It's easy to look for reasons to reject something and end up throwing out something that could be a good match. If you think more in terms of red lines that mustn't be crossed for a church to be acceptable and be aware of the things that you'd like but that aren't essential.

Discussions like this always remind me of the old adage which is that you'll never find the perfect church and if you ever do you shouldn't go because you'll ruin it.

 

[NewCreation435]

Presbyterians have official confessions of faith. For the PCUSA you should look at the Confession of 1967 and probably the Brief Statement of the Reformed Faith. The web site would be https://www.presbyterianmission.org/. (There's a pcusa.org, but it has become almost useless. Not sure why they moved the content to a different website.) Conservative Presbyterians use the Westminster Confession, and mostly they're pretty serious about it. Note that there are denominations called "Reformed" that are similar to Presbyterians, with beliefs probably somewhere between the PCUSA and conservative Presbyterian groups.

Methodists believe mostly the same thing the PCUSA does, but don't have a collection of confessional statements. Their web site has statements on specific issues. Note that there are conservative Wesleyan denominations, if you're trying to avoid mainline denominations.

Also consider Lutherans and Anglicans, if you're interested in more liturgical denominations. Again, their mainstream denominations are similar to the PCUSA. But they also have conservative offshoots. The LCMS follows the Book of Concord, and has good information on their web site. I'm not sure of the conservative Episcopal.

The mainline denominations differ a lot among congregations. While the leadership have a pretty coherent theology and ethics, there are conservative congregations. The conservative denominations tend to require uniformity.

Most of these groups have web sites that will point to any official confessions and give you a pretty good idea of their priorities and ministry. However some of the mainline churches haven't been writing new confessions, so their apparently authoritative documents may not show what they actually believe. But generally you can still get a good idea from the web sites.

that looks like an extensive web site for the Presbyterians. I am a little more comfortable with Methodist although the whole denomination seems to have become more liberal over the years. I have heard that the UMC churches are or will be splitting, but haven't heard any details about that.

 

[hedrick]

that looks like an extensive web site for the Presbyterians. I am a little more comfortable with Methodist although the whole denomination seems to have become more liberal over the years. I have heard that the UMC churches are or will be splitting, but haven't heard any details about that.

The proposed split is, as always, because of homosexuality. Covid removed focus from this. Before that, there was an agreement in principle to create a US church. At the moment, foreign Methodist churches have the ability to modify the Discipline for their own conditions. They are quasi-autonomous. But the US is not. So Africans vote on our policies, but we don't vote on theirs. (Well, we vote on international policies, but they can override them and the US can't.)

The proposal is to fix that. Originally the missions were fairly small. It was clear that they needed flexibility, but it wasn't envisioned that the US would be in the same position. As foreign churches have grown and the US church has shrunk, the US is no longer the center of the UMC universe, and if homosexuality weren't an issue, it would be obvious that the US should be treated the same as any other country. Other countries have been complaining that too much time is spent in the international meeting dealing with issues involving just the US. But there's no choice under the current governance, since the there is no US governing body.

However the moment the US has the ability to do so, it will permit ordination of gays. (Indeed the US is unlikely to enforce the prohibitions anyway.) At that point a few conservative churches will leave. It's not clear how many. I don't think a lot of churches actually want a gay pastor, but a lot of people are willing to exist in the same denomination as those churches that do. (Because of differences in structure, the issue for Methodists is just pastors. For the Presbyterians it included all lay leadership.)

International meetings to deal with this kind of thing have been put off for a while. However it looks like conservatives in the US are going to go ahead with creating their new conservative denomination. I assume they'll try to take conservative churches outside the US with them. So the split may happen anyway, just without the organizational work that had been planned to make both sides as functional as possible. If they do that, then the number of votes to give the US some autonomy seems assured. (To my knowledge, few in the US want to force acceptance of homosexuals on the African church. Hence the most likely goal is for the US to have the same degree of autonomy as other countries.)

As to getting more liberal: I don't think so. There hasn't been significant theological difference among the mainline churches for decades. Not sure that means increasing liberalism. At least in the PCUSA, theology and other things are pretty much the same as when I was growing up in the church in the 1950s and 1960s. I attended a Methodist church in high school, and I didn't see much difference then either. Neither church believed in inerrancy. Both ordained women. Both followed moderate versions of current Biblical and theological scholarship. They still do. The battle over these issues was fought in the early 20th Cent.

I don't know enough about the other mainline denominations that I can make the same statements about them.

 

[hedrick]

By the way, the Methodist situation is also about economics. The conservative churches that want to split are large, well-funded churches. They don't want to pay for a denomination that is trying to support lots of struggling rural churches. There are implications in statements and actions that they'd be withdrawing even if they got their way on homosexuality.

 

[Josiah]

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[NewCreation435]

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I've taken that before. I did it again today and scored 100% Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist was 96%. Methodist was at 88%. Based on this I probably shouldn't switch

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

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[Lanman87]

I would look up the websites of churches in your area and read their statement of faith and look at their bulletin/order of worship.

Having said that, generally speaking, more liberal denominations are Episcopal, The Presbyterian Church USA, and some United Methodist conferences. By liberal I mean they don't hold to the inerrant nature of scripture, (and by extension the doctrine of Sola Scriptura), support or at least accept LGBTQ+ and/or abortion rights, and believe the primary purpose of the church is to influence social change.

Generally speaking more conservative churches are Southern Baptist, Presbyterian Church of America, and Assembly of God (if you are interesting in Pentecostalism), and most non-denominational churches. Some United Methodist churches are conservative and some are more liberal. It depends largely on the region of the country/world you live in. By conservative I mean they hold to the inerrancy of Scripture (and sola scriptura), Salvation by Faith Alone and traditional Christian morality including marriage being between and man and woman and are pro-life when it comes to abortion.

If you are conservative then a good alternative to United Methodist is Church of the Nazarene (if there is one in your area). They are heavily influenced by Wesleyan Theology so their doctrine is very similar to United Methodist.

Then you have outliers like Independent Baptist who are KJV only and believe church music should not have a syncopated rhythm. And Church of Christ who believe in salvation by both faith and works and believe musical instruments in church is sinful.

It is important to remember that in many denominations local churches are autonomous from other churches. They may both be a part of a denomination but the local churches may have a vastly different culture and emphasis. Some may be more liturgical and traditional while others are less formal and less traditional. Some will have organs and choirs and others will have a "praise band" and "worship team".

My personal belief is that choose where to go to church is about main things:

1. Fidelity to the Gospel of Christ as revealed in the Scriptures.
2. Is this where God wants me to worship and serve?

Other things like type of music, culture of the church, and secondary doctrinal matters are all secondary matters when decided on a church. At least for me personally.

 

[NewCreation435]

I would look up the websites of churches in your area and read their statement of faith and look at their bulletin/order of worship.

Having said that, generally speaking, more liberal denominations are Episcopal, The Presbyterian Church USA, and some United Methodist conferences. By liberal I mean they don't hold to the inerrant nature of scripture, (and by extension the doctrine of Sola Scriptura), support or at least accept LGBTQ+ and/or abortion rights, and believe the primary purpose of the church is to influence social change.

Generally speaking more conservative churches are Southern Baptist, Presbyterian Church of America, and Assembly of God (if you are interesting in Pentecostalism), and most non-denominational churches. Some United Methodist churches are conservative and some are more liberal. It depends largely on the region of the country/world you live in. By conservative I mean they hold to the inerrancy of Scripture (and sola scriptura), Salvation by Faith Alone and traditional Christian morality including marriage being between and man and woman and are pro-life when it comes to abortion.

If you are conservative then a good alternative to United Methodist is Church of the Nazarene (if there is one in your area). They are heavily influenced by Wesleyan Theology so their doctrine is very similar to United Methodist.

Then you have outliers like Independent Baptist who are KJV only and believe church music should not have a syncopated rhythm. And Church of Christ who believe in salvation by both faith and works and believe musical instruments in church is sinful.

It is important to remember that in many denominations local churches are autonomous from other churches. They may both be a part of a denomination but the local churches may have a vastly different culture and emphasis. Some may be more liturgical and traditional while others are less formal and less traditional. Some will have organs and choirs and others will have a "praise band" and "worship team".

My personal belief is that choose where to go to church is about main things:

1. Fidelity to the Gospel of Christ as revealed in the Scriptures.
2. Is this where God wants me to worship and serve?

Other things like type of music, culture of the church, and secondary doctrinal matters are all secondary matters when decided on a church. At least for me personally.

I hadn't thought about church of the Nazarene. I think there is a few of those, but not many. I have attended a Wesleyan church. The one I attended seemed very similiar to Baptist.
I have watched a lot of services online during this time when COVID has disrupted so many churches. My pastor at the church I attend does a daily facebook live, but I am usually at work and can't watch it when he does them and he tends to do them at different times and isn't consistent with when he does them.

 

[NewCreation435]

View attachment 1303

Yes, I think we talked about that before and I did do that and Southern Baptist were high on the list.

 

[Lanman87]

I have watched a lot of services online during this time when COVID has disrupted so many churches.

I've watched a lot of different services as well from different churches. Maybe one good that has come out of this horrible Covid mess is that churches are streaming entire services and many churches who weren't streaming at all had to take up live streaming. If someone is "new to town" and or are looking for a church home they can have a lot better idea of the culture and teaching of a church before attending.

Christianity is a large family and it is interesting to see some family that I never get to see in person.

 

[Faith]

Presbyterians have official confessions of faith. For the PCUSA you should look at the Confession of 1967 and probably the Brief Statement of the Reformed Faith. The web site would be Presbyterian Mission Agency | Mission & Ministry. (There's a pcusa.org, but it has become almost useless. Not sure why they moved the content to a different website.) Conservative Presbyterians use the Westminster Confession, and mostly they're pretty serious about it. Note that there are denominations called "Reformed" that are similar to Presbyterians, with beliefs probably somewhere between the PCUSA and conservative Presbyterian groups.

Methodists believe mostly the same thing the PCUSA does, but don't have a collection of confessional statements. Their web site has statements on specific issues. Note that there are conservative Wesleyan denominations, if you're trying to avoid mainline denominations.

Also consider Lutherans and Anglicans, if you're interested in more liturgical denominations. Again, their mainstream denominations are similar to the PCUSA. But they also have conservative offshoots. The LCMS follows the Book of Concord, and has good information on their web site. I'm not sure of the conservative Episcopal.

The mainline denominations differ a lot among congregations. While the leadership have a pretty coherent theology and ethics, there are conservative congregations. The conservative denominations tend to require uniformity.

Most of these groups have web sites that will point to any official confessions and give you a pretty good idea of their priorities and ministry. However some of the mainline churches haven't been writing new confessions, so their apparently authoritative documents may not show what they actually believe. But generally you can still get a good idea from the web sites.

I now belong to the Lutheran LCMS and the liturgy is very contemporary. But we do recite the Creed, have Communion every other week, Etc.

 

[Faith]

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I took the quiz and got 100% Lutheran LCMS, which is what I am.

 

[Faith]

We have two locations for my church but each has its own pastors and we don’t have a satellite service.

 

[Albion]

I took the quiz and got 100% Lutheran LCMS, which is what I am.

Well, I also took this quiz and it made me out to be LCMS too, which is definitely not accurate.

There are only a certain number of questions that the creator of any of these polls is allowed to ask, and in this case far too many of the allotted slots were devoted to asking questions about believing (or not) in God and the Bible. Those questions don't separate the conservative Protestant denominations very effectively.

 

[Pedrito]

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Albion has hit the nail on the head. I used to work in the survey industry. Questionnaires are only as good as the questions within them are pertinent.

I would suggest that any true seeker should ignore survey results, rid their minds of as much denominational teaching as they can, and read the Scriptures with as totally an open mind as personally possible (i.e. become a blank canvas).

I would suggest that the following method of study, if done with complete honesty, will cut through the filters that each religious group uses to veil the naked truth in God’s Holy Word.

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For each passage, verse, phrase and word, ask the following questions.

1. What does it actually say?

2. What does it really mean?
- what have we been directly taught that it means?
- what have we been indirectly taught that it means?
- what must it mean to match the beliefs with which we feel comfortable?

3. What else can it mean?
- what other meaning is relatively obvious (what does it actually say)?
- what else could it possibly mean?
- what else could it not possibly mean (i.e. would conflict with what we want to believe)?
- does it give us a sense of discomfort to consider any of those meanings? If so, why?

4. According to the lexicons (dictionaries), what other meanings could there be?

5. What other scriptures are there to support each of the possible meanings?
- which meaning most closely blends into the unfolding tapestry of God’s Word (if one has started to form)?

6. What did the speaker/writer and hearers/readers understand the words to mean, based on their cultural and religious backgrounds?
- what would have automatically sprung into their minds?

7. Could there be a translation anomaly (either accidental or deliberate)?
- compare different translations.
- in what way are they different?
- do they contradict each other?
- how can we determine which is correct?
- if a deliberate mistranslation is found (modern translations) or a spurious insertion is found (older translations), what was the motive for
that mistranslation or that spurious addition?

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Happy hunting (for those so inclined)! .... (And don’t be surprised if you feel discomfort.)

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[eddif]

I Corinthians 1:10 KJV


Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Denominations tend to want you to believe their founding fathers. Usually when you change you are asked to believe what they believe. Usually some beliefs are good and some not so good. You may choose to just stay where you are and seek to find out truth and help all members of all denominations read the letters to the churches, and be joined together in one mind.
Good to not be divided from anyone.

 

[Lamb]

I Corinthians 1:10 KJV


Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Denominations tend to want you to believe their founding fathers. Usually when you change you are asked to believe what they believe. Usually some beliefs are good and some not so good. You may choose to just stay where you are and seek to find out truth and help all members of all denominations read the letters to the churches, and be joined together in one mind.
Good to not be divided from anyone.

I disagree that denominations want their members to believe what their founder believed in. There are things that Luther wrote that Lutherans don't believe in because we are not a follower of Luther, but a follower of Christ. Luther had some great insight to God's grace which is what the Church needed back in his day.