Can an animal sacrifice in the present atone for the sins of someone who died in the past?

[NathanH83]

I’m not talking about today, of course. But in Old Testament times.

 

[Lamb]

I’m not talking about today, of course. But in Old Testament times.

The only sacrifice that atones for sin of men of the past, present and future is Jesus' death on the cross.

 

[pinacled]

The only sacrifice that atones for sin of men of the past, present and future is Jesus' death on the cross.

Philippians 2:7
Warmth in blood

 

[atpollard]

I’m not talking about today, of course. But in Old Testament times.

Maccabees suggests that it is possible, and even that it is possible to atone for the sin that God has judged by killing the sinner for his sin.

That seems to run contradictory to the explicit statements in the New Testament:

• [1 John 5:16] 16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

It is also contradicted by the letter and spirit of Ezekiel 18
1 The word of the LORD came to me again, saying, 2 “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:

‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge’?

3 “As I live,” says the Lord GOD, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.

4 “Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die.
5 But if a man is just
And does what is lawful and right;
6 If he has not eaten on the mountains,
Nor lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel,
Nor defiled his neighbor’s wife,
Nor approached a woman during her impurity;
7 If he has not oppressed anyone,
But has restored to the debtor his pledge;
Has robbed no one by violence,
But has given his bread to the hungry
And covered the naked with clothing;
8 If he has not exacted usury
Nor taken any increase,
But has withdrawn his hand from iniquity
And executed true judgment between man and man;
9 If he has walked in My statutes
And kept My judgments faithfully—
He is just;
He shall surely live!”
Says the Lord GOD.

10 “If he begets a son who is a robber
Or a shedder of blood,
Who does any of these things
11 And does none of those duties,
But has eaten on the mountains
Or defiled his neighbor’s wife;
12 If he has oppressed the poor and needy,
Robbed by violence,
Not restored the pledge,
Lifted his eyes to the idols,
Or committed abomination;
13 If he has exacted usury
Or taken increase—
Shall he then live?
He shall not live!
If he has done any of these abominations,
He shall surely die;
His blood shall be upon him.

14 “If, however, he begets a son
Who sees all the sins which his father has done,
And considers but does not do likewise;
15 Who has not eaten on the mountains,
Nor lifted his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel,
Nor defiled his neighbor’s wife;
16 Has not oppressed anyone,
Nor withheld a pledge,
Nor robbed by violence,
But has given his bread to the hungry
And covered the naked with clothing;
17 Who has withdrawn his hand from the poor[fn]
And not received usury or increase,
But has executed My judgments
And walked in My statutes—
He shall not die for the iniquity of his father;
He shall surely live!

18 “As for his father,
Because he cruelly oppressed,
Robbed his brother by violence,
And did what is not good among his people,
Behold, he shall die for his iniquity.

19 “Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live. 20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
21 “But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22 None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. 23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord GOD, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?
24 “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? 26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies. 27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. 28 Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 29 Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair?
30 “Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways,” says the Lord GOD. “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord GOD. “Therefore turn and live!”

 

[pinacled]

I’m not talking about today, of course. But in Old Testament times.

A malicious intentional sin leads to death and isn't covered by the blood.

Those that act in such a way are considered ashes outside the camp.
Strangled and forgotten.
A name erased from the book of life.

Blessings Always

 

[pinacled]

A malicious intentional sin leads to death and isn't covered by the blood.

Those that act in such a way are considered ashes outside the camp.
Strangled and forgotten.
A name erased from the book of life.

Blessings Always

The nation is like a mighty lion;
When it is sleeping, no one dares wake it.
Whoever blesses Israel will be blessed,
And whoever curses Israel will be cursed.”

 

[NathanH83]

The only sacrifice that atones for sin of men of the past, present and future is Jesus' death on the cross.

So, a sacrifice in the present CAN atone for the sins of someone who died in the past?

 

[NathanH83]

A malicious intentional sin leads to death and isn't covered by the blood.

Those that act in such a way are considered ashes outside the camp.
Strangled and forgotten.
A name erased from the book of life.

Blessings Always

I’m not sure I understand how you even remotely answered the question

 

[Lamb]

So, a sacrifice in the present CAN atone for the sins of someone who died in the past?

The only sacrifice worthy for atonement is Jesus' sacrifice and that already happened. I'm finding it strange that a Christian wouldn't come to that conclusion already?

The Hebrews/Jews of the past had their faith in the Savior who was to come. Their salvation is just like ours, by grace through faith. It's just that we get to know more about the Savior than they did.

You cannot do anything to gain atonement for anyone.

 

[NathanH83]

The only sacrifice worthy for atonement is Jesus' sacrifice and that already happened. I'm finding it strange that a Christian wouldn't come to that conclusion already?

The Hebrews/Jews of the past had their faith in the Savior who was to come. Their salvation is just like ours, by grace through faith. It's just that we get to know more about the Savior than they did.

You cannot do anything to gain atonement for anyone.

Didn’t the Jews of the Old Testament have animal sacrifices? Couldn’t that atone for someone’s sins before Jesus came?

If so, could an animal sacrifice in their present atone for the sins of someone who died in the past?

 

[Lamb]

Didn’t the Jews of the Old Testament have animal sacrifices? Couldn’t that atone for someone’s sins before Jesus came?

If so, could an animal sacrifice in their present atone for the sins of someone who died in the past?

Those were temporary atonements made but not the spiritual atonement we need that only comes from Jesus' death and resurrection. No, an animal sacrifice to try to make atonement would be rejection of Jesus. Why would you slap God in the face like that?

 

[NathanH83]

Those were temporary atonements made but not the spiritual atonement we need that only comes from Jesus' death and resurrection. No, an animal sacrifice to try to make atonement would be rejection of Jesus. Why would you slap God in the face like that?

In the New Testament we have Jesus’ sacrifice. In the Old Testament, they had animal sacrifices. They weren’t slapping Jesus in the face by offering animals, since He hadn’t come yet.

If Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross has the ability to atone for the sins of people who died in the past, then why wouldn’t animal sacrifices in the Old Testament have the ability to atone for the sins of men who died in the past?

 

[Lamb]

In the New Testament we have Jesus’ sacrifice. In the Old Testament, they had animal sacrifices. They weren’t slapping Jesus in the face by offering animals, since He hadn’t come yet.

If Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross has the ability to atone for the sins of people who died in the past, then why wouldn’t animal sacrifices in the Old Testament have the ability to atone for the sins of men who died in the past?

The promise of the Savior was in Genesis. That's the Gospel, the Good News and its' the hope of what the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews had and was their faith that gave them salvation.

The animal sacrifice was because blood needed to be shed until Jesus came. Jesus' sacrifice lacks nothing and their sins are forgiven. You can't sacrifice anything and have God accept it because Jesus is the unblemished lamb of God.

 

[Lamb]

God demanded that blood be shed for sin. Do you notice that in animal sacrifice that the people who sinned had no harm done to themselves? They didn't have to suffer and not a drop of their own blood was shed. This is how God introduced His people to a substitutionary atonement. He introduced them to Law and Gospel. He showed them their sin and the need to be forgiven. He showed them how blemished animals would not suffice. This all leads us to the perfect sacrifice of our Lord and Savior.

 

[NathanH83]

God demanded that blood be shed for sin. Do you notice that in animal sacrifice that the people who sinned had no harm done to themselves? They didn't have to suffer and not a drop of their own blood was shed. This is how God introduced His people to a substitutionary atonement. He introduced them to Law and Gospel. He showed them their sin and the need to be forgiven. He showed them how blemished animals would not suffice. This all leads us to the perfect sacrifice of our Lord and Savior.

Ok, I get all that. But you didn’t answer my question.

If someone was living in Old Testament times, before Jesus came, when animal sacrifices were still being offered, could the Levite priests sacrifice an animal for a person who had already died a certain number of days earlier, before the sacrifice was made for them?

Could an animal sacrifice in THEIR present atone for the sins of someone who died in the past? Why or why not?

I’m talking Old Testament times, not present-day.

 

[Lamb]

Ok, I get all that. But you didn’t answer my question.

If someone was living in Old Testament times, before Jesus came, when animal sacrifices were still being offered, could the Levite priests sacrifice an animal for a person who had already died a certain number of days earlier, before the sacrifice was made for them?

Could an animal sacrifice in THEIR present atone for the sins of someone who died in the past? Why or why not?

I’m talking Old Testament times, not present-day.

This is different than what you initially asked in the OP.

If you're worried about their sins being atoned you shouldn't be looking to a sacrifice but instead look to whether they believed in the Savior who was to come since they already died. I have said it before and will keep repeating it that since Genesis, mankind has salvation in the same way "by grace through faith." They had faith in the one who was to come. We have faith in the one who did come.

We don't need to worry about whether someone would try to sacrifice an animal for someone who had died because we know that Jesus' death covered all of that.

 

[NathanH83]

This is different than what you initially asked in the OP.

If you're worried about their sins being atoned you shouldn't be looking to a sacrifice but instead look to whether they believed in the Savior who was to come since they already died. I have said it before and will keep repeating it that since Genesis, mankind has salvation in the same way "by grace through faith." They had faith in the one who was to come. We have faith in the one who did come.

We don't need to worry about whether someone would try to sacrifice an animal for someone who had died because we know that Jesus' death covered all of that.

I’m talking about BEFORE Jesus came though.

You’re still not answering the question.

If Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross atoned for the sins of those who died in the past, then why wouldn’t an animal sacrifice in Old Testament times not also have the ability to atone for someone who had died in the past?

Look at 2 Maccabees 12.

 

[Lamb]

I’m talking about BEFORE Jesus came though.

You’re still not answering the question.

If Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross atoned for the sins of those who died in the past, then why wouldn’t an animal sacrifice in Old Testament times not also have the ability to atone for someone who had died in the past?

Look at 2 Maccabees 12.

I answered your question! I answered it repeatedly. I'm having a really difficult time trying to understand why a Christian doesn't agree that Jesus' death atoned for the sins of those who died before us.

 

[NathanH83]

I answered your question! I answered it repeatedly. I'm having a really difficult time trying to understand why a Christian doesn't agree that Jesus' death atoned for the sins of those who died before us.

I don’t see how you’ve answered what I’m asking.

I’m asking about 2 Maccabees 12. This was BEFORE Jesus. They can’t reject Jesus when he hasn’t been born yet!

They sacrificed animals to atone for the sins of the soldiers who had died 7 days prior.

So that sacrifice in THEIR present could atone for the sins of those soldiers who died in the past, right?

 

[Lamb]

I don’t see how you’ve answered what I’m asking.

I’m asking about 2 Maccabees 12. This was BEFORE Jesus. They can’t reject Jesus when he hasn’t been born yet!

They sacrificed animals to atone for the sins of the soldiers who had died 7 days prior.

So that sacrifice in THEIR present could atone for the sins of those soldiers who died in the past, right?

I did answer your question. The promise of the Savior was given in Genesis right after the fall. Those who had faith in that promise had salvation. Those who rejected the promise of the Savior damned themselves.

So to AGAIN answer your question, sacrificing an animal would not gain them salvation since we are ALL saved by grace through faith.