Did the very first Christians have the apocrypha in their Bible?

[NathanH83]

The book of 1st Clement doesn't actually quote the book of Judith and it certainly never called it Scripture. First Clement references the person Judith as an example of heroism but the book itself is not directly quoted.

The book of 1st Clement uses the standard formula for citing Scripture (i.e. "it is written"). This formula is used nine time 1st Clement but it formula is not used with the book of Judith.

Clement calls Judith sacred scripture. Read it again.

 

[pinacled]

Two question please:

What is your point regarding the 2 Enochs?

Do you believe "adamah" is Adam's name?

To answer the first question.
Refer to jude and hebrews

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT ENOCH

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT ENOCH. Enoch Bible verses in the King James Version (KJV) about Enoch.

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

 

[Origen]

Clement calls Judith sacred scripture. Read it again.

The phrase "sacred scriptures" does not appear near the reference to the person Judith. Give the citation in 1st Clement where it clearly calls the book of Judith is sacred scripture.

 

[Origen]

To answer the first question.
Refer to jude and hebrews

Never mind

 

[RichWh1]

Where?

Book of Jude 1:14 quotes Enoch in the writing of Enoch.


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[RichWh1]

There are 2 enoch's
from the lineage of adamah(Adam).

From Enoch a lineage a-rised .
And gave testimony ..

There is only one Enoch mentioned in the Old Testament and it is a reference to the son of Methuselah


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[pinacled]

There is only one Enoch mentioned in the Old Testament and it is a reference to the son of Methuselah


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There are 2 mentioned in Torah.

Genesis 4
ז וַיֵּדַע קַיִן אֶת-אִשְׁתּוֹ, וַתַּהַר וַתֵּלֶד אֶת-חֲנוֹךְ; וַיְהִי, בֹּנֶה עִיר, וַיִּקְרָא שֵׁם הָעִיר, כְּשֵׁם בְּנוֹ חֲנוֹךְ.
17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bore Enoch; and he builded a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son Enoch.


Genesis 5
יט וַיְחִי-יֶרֶד, אַחֲרֵי הוֹלִידוֹ אֶת-חֲנוֹךְ, שְׁמֹנֶה מֵאוֹת, שָׁנָה; וַיּוֹלֶד בָּנִים, וּבָנוֹת.
19 And Jared lived after he begot Enoch eight hundred years, and begot sons and daughters.

 

[Origen]

There are 2 mentioned in Torah.

Genesis 4
ז וַיֵּדַע קַיִן אֶת-אִשְׁתּוֹ, וַתַּהַר וַתֵּלֶד אֶת-חֲנוֹךְ; וַיְהִי, בֹּנֶה עִיר, וַיִּקְרָא שֵׁם הָעִיר, כְּשֵׁם בְּנוֹ חֲנוֹךְ.
17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bore Enoch; and he builded a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son Enoch.


Genesis 5
יט וַיְחִי-יֶרֶד, אַחֲרֵי הוֹלִידוֹ אֶת-חֲנוֹךְ, שְׁמֹנֶה מֵאוֹת, שָׁנָה; וַיּוֹלֶד בָּנִים, וּבָנוֹת.
19 And Jared lived after he begot Enoch eight hundred years, and begot sons and daughters.

My question is what was your point? Why point out there were two Enoch?

 

[pinacled]

Book of Jude 1:14 quotes Enoch in the writing of Enoch.


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I don't recall anything about, "writings".
Could you provide a translation source material please.
I took this to mean noach was forewarned by the Holy Spirit.

Yair(jude 1
[14 Moreover, Hanokh, in the seventh generation starting with Adam, also prophesied about these men, saying, “Look! Adonai came with his myriads of holy ones 15 to execute judgment against everyone, that is, to convict all the godless for their godless deeds which they have done in such a godless way, and for all the harsh words these godless sinners have spoken against him.”]

 

[pinacled]

Yes, I know that. My question is what was your point by making it clear there were two Enoch?

There are those of a certain religion that adhere to the enoch begotten by cain.

 

[Origen]

There are those of a certain religion that adhere to the enoch begotten by cain.

What do you mean by adhere?

 

[pinacled]

What do you mean by adhere?

They curse israel

 

[Origen]

הָאָדָם

I see your mistake. הָאָדָם is not "adamah." It is "ha-adam" = the man. The ה on the front of the noun is the article. The word you wrote was "adamah" and that is the word for "ground, dirt." The Hebrew word is אֲדָמָה. The ה on the end of the word shows it is a feminine noun.

 

[pinacled]

I see your mistake. הָאָדָם is not "adamah." It is "haadam" = the man. The ה on the front noun is the article. The word you wrote was "adamah" and that is the word for "ground, dirt." The Hebrew word is אֲדָמָה. The ה on the end of the word shows it is a feminine noun.

A relation to the hebrew meaning of red earth.
Cain was the first that spilled blood.
And esauv was born with a red complexion reflecting a nature of lineage.

 

[pinacled]

I see your mistake. הָאָדָם is not "adamah." It is "haadam" = the man. The ה on the front of the noun is the article. The word you wrote was "adamah" and that is the word for "ground, dirt." The Hebrew word is אֲדָמָה. The ה on the end of the word shows it is a feminine noun.

My intention was to share in understanding.
Thankyou for the keen inquiry ..

To be technical.
et ' hadam is the hebrew transliteration.
אֶת-הָאָדָם

Blessings Always

 

[Origen]

My intention was to share in understanding.
Thankyou for the keen inquiry ..

To be technical.
At ' hadam is the hebrew transliteration.
אֶת-הָאָדָם

Blessings Always

I cannot agree with you about the transliteration. It is usually done with a hyphen (i.e. ha-adam) which I left out by accident in post 33.

Also the letter aleph ought to be represented in transliteration with the symbol ʾ (it should look like this ʾadam).

Your example leaves out the vowel qames under the ה. The usual form of the article is הַ prefixed to the word, with a dages forte in the first letter of the word. Since the leter aleph cannot take a dages the vowel is lengthen from a patah to a qames.

The from אֶת can be either the sign of the direct object or the preposition. Without context there is no way to tell.

 

[pinacled]

I cannot agree with you about the transliteration. It is usually done with a hyphen (i.e. ha-adam) which I left out by accident in post 33.

Also the letter aleph ought to be represented in transliteration with the symbol ʾ (it should look like this ʾadam).

Your example leaves out the vowel qames under the ה. The usual form of the article is הַ prefixed to the word, with a dages forte in the first letter of the word. Since the leter aleph cannot take a dages the vowel is lengthen from a patah to a qames.

The from אֶת can be either the sign of the direct object or the preposition. Without context there is no way to tell.

am at et

Are essentially honorifics

My Jewish Learning - Judaism & Jewish Life | My Jewish Learning

Explore Jewish Life and Judaism at My Jewish Learning, your go-to source for Jewish holidays, rituals, celebrations, recipes, Torah, history, and more.

www.myjewishlearning.com

 

[pinacled]

I cannot agree with you about the transliteration. It is usually done with a hyphen (i.e. ha-adam) which I left out by accident in post 33.

Also the letter aleph ought to be represented in transliteration with the symbol ʾ (it should look like this ʾadam).

Your example leaves out the vowel qames under the ה. The usual form of the article is הַ prefixed to the word, with a dages forte in the first letter of the word. Since the leter aleph cannot take a dages the vowel is lengthen from a patah to a qames.

The from אֶת can be either the sign of the direct object or the preposition. Without context there is no way to tell.

alef tav - hei alef dalet mem.
=10

The tav and mem being structurally consistent in numerical composition.

 

[Origen]

Dictionary of Classical Hebrew, Vol. 1 pp. 439 and 449

 

[pinacled]

View attachment 1374
View attachment 1375
Dictionary of Classical Hebrew, Vol. 1 pp. 439 and 449

Love the orange underline addition.

But the hebrew should be read right to left.
Bar
Bat
Ben

Are also honorifics.
Of yammin