Early Christian writings along with the NT...

[pinacled]

Where in the Bible does it state what you just said?

Colossians 3:9-13

 

[Andrew]

20 Bible verses about Greeks

A topical Bible which shows the most relevant Bible verse for each topic

bible.knowing-jesus.com

This is one of the many reasons why 1rst and 2nd Maccabees is important to read in order to grasp the Greek influence over the Jews who were born and raised during the hellenistic era when the Septuagint was created, and for that very reason, so that hellenistic Jews who only spoke Greek could benefit from those translations.
"Synagogue" is actually a greek word for gathering, particularly a Jewish gathering for teaching (not to be confused with Temple).

The Greek translation we call the Septuagint or LXX was 100% the only effective way for hellenistic Judaism to study sacred scripture.

Paul was a hellenistic Jew, just because he wrote in greek and spoke to the greek gentile audience in his native greek tongue does not make him a gentile, he was still Jewish.

Jesus however was NOT reading the Greek translation in the synagogue when He quotes Isaiah, but he WAS reading from the same Hebrew text that the Septuagint was copied from, this is why He quotes Isaiah VERBATIM in accordance to the Septuagint.

If you don't believe me just read what Jesus quoted and then read the passage in Isaiah he is quoting from in your OT section of your Bible...

Next look up the same Isaiah passage in the LXX (Septuagint) and ask yourself "was the Septuagint fabricated to fix or hide Jesus' misquotation?, or did Jesus actually quote an earlier and more original Hebrew text and our OT has mistakes??"

 

[Josiah]

The Septuagint was read in the synagogues by Jews for Jews

For a time... for Jews who knew Greek but not Hebrew.... It provided a TRANSLATION of some books read at times in some synagogues. So what? What does that have to do with all Christianity officially/formally/definitively declaring what is and is not canoncial? For some 300 years, The King James ENGLISH Translation was read in Anglican Churches around the world.... for 300 years, Luther's GERMAN translation was read in Lutheran churches in Germany.... What does that prove about Christianity declaring exactly what is and is not Scripture in a formal/official/definitive way? How does that prove that Christianity did at some (yet unnamed) Council what Judaism did at their Council of Jamnia?

Yes, the LXX provided a GREEK translation of some stuff and was used by some Jews who could understand/read Greek but not Hebrew. So what? The Latin Vulgate was a LATIN translation of some stuff and was used by some Christians who could understand/read Latin but not Greek. Neither was an official/formal declaration of anything by anyone for anything, they were TRANSLATIONS for customers who desired to read things in a language they could understand.... Just like Luther's and the KJV and the NIV and the ESV and thousands of other translations. The LXX was a translation - one of thousands - nothing more.





.

 

[pinacled]

This is one of the many reasons why 1rst and 2nd Maccabees is important to read in order to grasp the Greek influence over the Jews who were born and raised during the hellenistic era when the Septuagint was created, and for that very reason, so that hellenistic Jews who only spoke Greek could benefit from those translations.
"Synagogue" is actually a greek word for gathering, particularly a Jewish gathering for teaching (not to be confused with Temple).

The Greek translation we call the Septuagint or LXX was 100% the only effective way for hellenistic Judaism to study sacred scripture.

Paul was a hellenistic Jew, just because he wrote in greek and spoke to the greek gentile audience in his native greek tongue does not make him a gentile, he was still Jewish.

Jesus however was NOT reading the Greek translation in the synagogue when He quotes Isaiah, but he WAS reading from the same Hebrew text that the Septuagint was copied from, this is why He quotes Isaiah VERBATIM in accordance to the Septuagint.

If you don't believe me just read what Jesus quoted and then read the passage in Isaiah he is quoting from in your OT section of your Bible...

Next look up the same Isaiah passage in the LXX (Septuagint) and ask yourself "was the Septuagint fabricated to fix or hide Jesus' misquotation?, or did Jesus actually quote an earlier and more original Hebrew text and our OT has mistakes??"

Hebrew is ole sh'aul(pauls) native tongue
Acts 22
Ole sh'aul was a hebrew of hebrews who studied in a jewish hebrew speaking shul(school/synagogue) under gamaliel.
Greek and latin were secondary languages to the country.

 

[Andrew]

Hebrew is ole sh'aul native tongue
Acts 22
Ole sh'aul was a hebrew of hebrews who studied in a jewish hebrew speaking shul(school/synagogue) under gamaliel.
Greek and latin were secondary languages to the country.

Tarsus, where Paul was born, was a hellenistic city and the center of greek learning, a crossroad of the empire, he was then sent at a young age to Jerusalem to receive rabbinical education at the school of Gamaliel, his first language was greek and he was very well learned in greek philosophy. Read the end of chapter 21, he was recognised as a greek speaker by the chief captain who eventually gave Paul license to speak to the Jews once he told the chief that he could speak Hebrew.

 

[pinacled]

Tarsus, where Paul was born, was a hellenistic city and the center of greek learning, a crossroad of the empire, he was then sent at a young age to Jerusalem to receive rabbinical education at the school of Gamaliel, his first language was greek and he was very well learned in greek philosophy. Read the end of chapter 21, he was recognised as a greek speaker by the chief captain who eventually gave Paul license to speak to the Jews once he told the chief that he could speak Hebrew.

[ Art not thou that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar, and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers?

39 But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.

40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying, ]

A jew of tarsus implies hebrew upbringing.
Context is important when studying and learning from a hebrew perspective of exegesis.

What you have asserted about Paul's upbringing is quite familiar to the gossip and slander he endured in the very scripture you cited.

Do you have an issue with jewish people and culture?

 

[Andrew]

[ Art not thou that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar, and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers?

39 But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.

40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying, ]

A jew of tarsus implies hebrew upbringing.
Context is important when studying and learning from a hebrew perspective of exegesis.

What you have asserted about Paul's upbringing is quite familiar to the gossip and slander he endured in the very scripture you cited.

Do you have an issue with jewish people and culture?

What are you talking about? Turkey (where Tarsus was located) along with most of the areas surrounding Mediterranean was becoming hellenistic/Greek.. It does NOT mean that the Jews became Greek or that Greece was only hellenistic, hella means Greek and their spread of influence.
Paul was Jewish and spoke and wrote greek and also studied the law and learned Hebrew, Paul was also Roman, none of this takes away from the fact that he was Jewish.
I have a Jewish friend that doesn't speak a lick of Hebrew, it does not make him non Jewish.
I'm only providing facts my friend, I have no problem with ancient Judaism, I am not concerned over their culture today, I just pray that they accept their King Jesus Christ.

Paul never expressed any issues with the greek translations which he would have been familiar with as they were in fact in the Greek speaking Synagogues, synagogues in and around Jerusalem were speaking Hebrew, if there was a major difference between the Hebrew and Greek translations then where is the evidence? Not in scripture, not in hellenistic era history, it didnt become an issue of debate until after Christianity had already spread. The Jews created a canon to hold their estate in the synagogues, even according to their history, Aquila of Sinope made a new translation of the Hebrew into Greek to replace the former Greek translations in the synagogues in the 2nd century, go ahead and look him up if you don't believe me.

 

[pinacled]

What are you talking about? Turkey (where Tarsus was located) along with most of the areas surrounding Mediterranean was becoming hellenistic/Greek.. It does NOT mean that the Jews became Greek or that Greece was only hellenistic, hella means Greek and their spread of influence.
Paul was Jewish and spoke and wrote greek and also studied the law and learned Hebrew, Paul was also Roman, none of this takes away from the fact that he was Jewish.
I have a Jewish friend that doesn't speak a lick of Hebrew, it does not make him non Jewish.
I'm only providing facts my friend, I have no problem with ancient Judaism, I am not concerned over their culture today, I just pray that they accept their King Jesus Christ.

Paul never expressed any issues with the greek translations which he would have been familiar with as they were in fact in the Greek speaking Synagogues, synagogues in and around Jerusalem were speaking Hebrew, if there was a major difference between the Hebrew and Greek translations then where is the evidence? Not in scripture, not in hellenistic era history, it didnt become an issue of debate until after Christianity had already spread. The Jews created a canon to hold their estate in the synagogues, even according to their history, Aquila of Sinope made a new translation of the Hebrew into Greek to replace the former Greek translations in the synagogues in the 2nd century, go ahead and look him up if you don't believe me.

Considering the historical aspect of disdain between greeks and jews.
Especially during the wars categorized in the latin vulgate books of maccabees.
No amount of attempted convincing will prove that greek was read in a jewish synagogue.

Blessings Always

 

[pinacled]

What are you talking about? Turkey (where Tarsus was located) along with most of the areas surrounding Mediterranean was becoming hellenistic/Greek.. It does NOT mean that the Jews became Greek or that Greece was only hellenistic, hella means Greek and their spread of influence.
Paul was Jewish and spoke and wrote greek and also studied the law and learned Hebrew, Paul was also Roman, none of this takes away from the fact that he was Jewish.
I have a Jewish friend that doesn't speak a lick of Hebrew, it does not make him non Jewish.
I'm only providing facts my friend, I have no problem with ancient Judaism, I am not concerned over their culture today, I just pray that they accept their King Jesus Christ.

Paul never expressed any issues with the greek translations which he would have been familiar with as they were in fact in the Greek speaking Synagogues, synagogues in and around Jerusalem were speaking Hebrew, if there was a major difference between the Hebrew and Greek translations then where is the evidence? Not in scripture, not in hellenistic era history, it didnt become an issue of debate until after Christianity had already spread. The Jews created a canon to hold their estate in the synagogues, even according to their history, Aquila of Sinope made a new translation of the Hebrew into Greek to replace the former Greek translations in the synagogues in the 2nd century, go ahead and look him up if you don't believe me.

[ But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: ]

Do you understand this statement from paul himself?

If not, I will help you.
No mean city" , in english comprehension refers to a neutral identity.
Which is why he refers to himself as a jew foremost in the address.

 

[Andrew]

[ But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: ]

Do you understand this statement from paul himself?

If not, I will help you.
No mean city" , in english comprehension refers to a neutral identity.
Which is why he refers to himself as a jew foremost in the address.

pinacled, Paul was a Jew, I said that multiple times already

 

[pinacled]

pinacled, Paul was a Jew, I said that multiple times already

Thankyou for clarifying.
Would you be willing to recognize and accept that his native tongue is hebrew?

פרשת השבוע - Torah Readings for this week

WEEKLY TORAH READINGS, This week's Torah, Haftarah, and Brit Chadashah reading.

www.hebrew4christians.com

 

[Andrew]

Thankyou for clarifying.
Would you be willing to recognize and accept that his native tongue is hebrew?

פרשת השבוע - Torah Readings for this week

WEEKLY TORAH READINGS, This week's Torah, Haftarah, and Brit Chadashah reading.

www.hebrew4christians.com

The greeks set up a statue of Zeus in the Temple and sacrificed pigs to their gods, Maccabees ran them out just like Jesus ran off the money changers.. your link even identifies the Maccabees re-dedication of the Temple as the source for Hanukkah aka the Feast of Dedication that Jesus celebrated at Temple.

Again Paul had to learn Hebrew in Jerusalem for he was born in a greek dominated city where even Jews were speaking greek, Turkey was completely hellenistic hence why Paul was sent to Jerusalem in the first place.. he did not learn at Temple, he learned at a synagogue in Jerusalem, why not a synagogue in Tarsus?

So he could learn Hebrew..

..that's why he went to Jerusalem

 

[pinacled]

The greeks set up a statue of Zeus in the Temple and sacrificed pigs to their gods, Maccabees ran them out just like Jesus ran off the money changers.. your link even identifies the Maccabees re-dedication of the Temple as the source for Hanukkah aka the Feast of Dedication that Jesus celebrated at Temple.

Again Paul had to learn Hebrew in Jerusalem for he was born in a greek dominated city where even Jews were speaking greek, Turkey was completely hellenistic hence why Paul was sent to Jerusalem in the first place.. he did not learn at Temple, he learned at a synagogue in Jerusalem, why not a synagogue in Tarsus? So he could learn Hebrew.. that's why he went to Jerusalem

The why and reason ole sh'aul was sent from his birth place to study under greater teachers of torah in his homeland is a gift from his parents that he honored.
A financial privilege that few of his fellow jews had.

In acts you find that he honored them again by visiting jerusalem according to torah while even under threat of death.

I hope you recall that ole sh'aul also had served dutifully without question under a high priest during his service for the temple. Even if misguided by the current preisthood of his time.

Unfortunately he forgot to be a light amongst other nations until yeshua blinded him on the road. After which he recieved healing and blessing to travel again with a message of hope to all who had not been able to visit jerusalem during the 3 high holy days nor in their lifetime.

Blessings Always

 

[pinacled]

The greeks set up a statue of Zeus in the Temple and sacrificed pigs to their gods, Maccabees ran them out just like Jesus ran off the money changers.. your link even identifies the Maccabees re-dedication of the Temple as the source for Hanukkah aka the Feast of Dedication that Jesus celebrated at Temple.

Again Paul had to learn Hebrew in Jerusalem for he was born in a greek dominated city where even Jews were speaking greek, Turkey was completely hellenistic hence why Paul was sent to Jerusalem in the first place.. he did not learn at Temple, he learned at a synagogue in Jerusalem, why not a synagogue in Tarsus?

So he could learn Hebrew..

..that's why he went to Jerusalem

Why do you assume the parents of ole sh'aul who sent him to study under renowned torah teachers had not spoke nor taught hebrew to their son?

 

[Andrew]

The why and reason ole sh'aul was sent from his birth place to study under greater teachers of torah in his homeland is a gift from his parents that he honored.

In acts you find that he honored them again by visiting jerusalem according to torah while even under threat of death.

I hope you recall that ole sh'aul also had served dutifully without question under a high priest during his service for the temple. Even if misguided by the current preisthood of his time.

Unfortunately he forgot to be a light amongst other nations until yeshua blinded him on the road. After which he recieved healing and blessing to travel again with a message of hope to all had not been able to visit jerusalem during the 3 high holy days nor their lifetime.

Blessings Always

Paul was indeed chosen for having such a large spectrum of tongues, western/greek philosophy and knowledge, Roman militant expeditions, high level Jewish priesthood and of course a life changing calling from Christ that made him the ideal messenger for the gentiles as well as to the Jews of all classes and ranks, the precise charismatic attributes thay God had imputed in him for the grafting in of gentiles unto the new covenant.

This scope of all things Paul was crafted for includes his greek influenced upbringing as a Jew of youth being fluent in greek before studying the Hebrew tongue and Law under Rabbis in Jerusalem as both a Roman Citizen and Hellenistic Jew

 

[Andrew]

Why do you assume the parents of ole sh'aul who sent him to study under renowned torah teachers had not spoke nor taught hebrew to their son?

Hebrew had become a dying language in the west, aramaic was the closest a Jew would get to understanding Hebrew if he or she was born in a community that had been hellenistic for centuries, even then aramaic writings of the Torah were forbidden, there were a few aramaic targums that floated around but it was easier and safer to just hear and read the greek translated scrolls in the synagogues in the west, OR you could go to Jerusalem where Hebrews maintained the language but it had to be taught to hellenistic Jews.

 

[pinacled]

Hebrew had become a dying language in the west, aramaic was the closest a Jew would get to understanding Hebrew if he or she was born in a community that had been hellenistic for centuries, even then aramaic writings of the Torah were forbidden, there were a few aramaic targums that floated around but it was easier and safer to just hear and read the greek translated scrolls in the synagogues in the west, OR you could go to Jerusalem where Hebrews maintained the language but it had to be taught to hellenistic Jews.

The province where ole sh'aul was born is north of jerusalem.
You are making assertions and avoiding my question about ole sh'aul, his parents teaching, and hebrew heritage.

Why do you ignore and diminish the prominence of hebrew culture and language with an exultation of a greek variance.?

 

[pinacled]

Hebrew had become a dying language in the west, aramaic was the closest a Jew would get to understanding Hebrew if he or she was born in a community that had been hellenistic for centuries, even then aramaic writings of the Torah were forbidden, there were a few aramaic targums that floated around but it was easier and safer to just hear and read the greek translated scrolls in the synagogues in the west, OR you could go to Jerusalem where Hebrews maintained the language but it had to be taught to hellenistic Jews.

Hellenistic jew" , "which paul was not", is an overall term to describe jews who had adopted a greek culture and philosophy.
They were further shunned by their own brethren who had greater means of education and access to the temple.
Hence yeshua turning tables and visiting the poor as the prophets spoke of.

Blessed be The Holy One

 

[Andrew]

Hellenistic jew" , "which paul was not", is an overall term to describe jews who had adopted a greek culture and philosophy.
They were further shunned by their own brethren who had greater means of education and access to the temple.
Hence yeshua turning tables and visiting the poor as the prophets spoke of.

Blessed be The Holy One

More like they were ingrained into a culture of the greek rule centuries before and the descendants inherited that culture as the norm while maintaining their religious traditions none the less.
Just look at Jews in America today, I can name more Jewish celebrities and directors/producers in Hollywood than Christians celebrities and producers, not all Jews are learned in Hebrew although they do keep to their traditions, a good number of Jews in America are atheist.. sounds strange but it's true, they are considered a race of their own so it doesn't make them non Jewish if they don't believe in God.
In Jerusalem it's very different, their culture is their own, the children are raised in Hebrew schools and then go on to learn at Hebrew academies, studying the Torah diligently and ultimately devoting their lives to the study of the Talmud if they wish to become Rabbis, the rest serve in the Jewish community from merchants to doctors to government, very very different from most American Jews..

Paul was born Jewish in a greek environment speaking the language of greek and then learned Hebrew in Jerusalem, he would have known of the greek translations, yet he never mentioned a great concern over centuries old translations of the Jewish Holy books, he only warned of other any other gospel ("being no gospel at all") being preached and brought into churches bringing in doctrines of devils (The Gnostics who taught that Christ did not come in the flesh but was pure light/spirit)

Christians had no problem booting out the false gospels of the gnostics

 

[Andrew]

The province where ole sh'aul was born is north of jerusalem.
You are making assertions and avoiding my question about ole sh'aul, his parents teaching, and hebrew heritage.

Why do you ignore and diminish the prominence of hebrew culture and language with an exultation of a greek variance.?

Yeah, that area was dominated by Greek and Rome remember?