How fearful are you right now of Covid?

How fearful are you right now in catching the Covid virus?


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tango

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The high numbers in America are false positives.
You know my dad went to Taiwan in the 90s as part of a business trip and they are all practically stacked and packed on top of each other.. guess how many death's they have had due to covid since the pandemic... 7.

My sister works in an old folks hospice home and all deaths are considered Covid related, it's all propaganda folks, to blame the bad orange man.

It's clear that this is a very clever virus. Some of the things we've learned about it so far....

1. It's harmless in Home Depot but deadly in church
2. If I go to a local independent shoe store I'll probably die, so we have to close those stores. But I can go and buy shoes in Wal-Mart and that's safe
3. Family funerals are deadly but riots are OK
4. Wearing masks stops the virus, but we still have to close everything down because masks aren't enough
5. If Grandma goes out she'll almost certainly die, so it's better for her to suffer the social isolation that some have said is worse than physical torture.
6. Masks work, except when they don't, but then maybe they do. So there's no point in us wearing them because they don't do anything until we are mandated to wear them because they make a crucial difference.
7. The fuhrer won't let us meet in large groups because that's dangerous but it's OK for him to join a protest that violates his own order because that's safe.
 

tango

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On a different note it's interesting to see the shifting narrative.

Originally the masks were about protecting us but now they are about protecting those around us. So whereas not wearing a mask might once have indicated a lack of fear, now it apparently indicates a lack of caring about those around you.

Originally the talk was of "flattening the curve", not necessarily even about saving lives - just delaying the deaths so the health system wasn't overwhelmed. The idea was to buy time to get everything in place. That slowly shifted to reducing cases regardless of economic and social costs, and then everybody blamed the federal government for the fact the states didn't do anything with the time they bought.

If you heard of a place where one man and his sidekick unilaterally ruled the lives of some 13,000,000 people, deciding who was and who was not allowed to earn a living, what businesses were allowed to stay open and under what circumstances, under what circumstances people were allowed to leave their homes and so on, ruling by executive diktat and ignoring other branches of government, you'd be forgiven for thinking of a place like North Korea. Nope, this is the state where the Declaration of Independence was signed.

The "land of the free and the home of the brave" is increasingly "the land of the scared and the home of the slave".
 

Andrew

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It's clear that this is a very clever virus. Some of the things we've learned about it so far....

1. It's harmless in Home Depot but deadly in church
2. If I go to a local independent shoe store I'll probably die, so we have to close those stores. But I can go and buy shoes in Wal-Mart and that's safe
3. Family funerals are deadly but riots are OK
4. Wearing masks stops the virus, but we still have to close everything down because masks aren't enough
5. If Grandma goes out she'll almost certainly die, so it's better for her to suffer the social isolation that some have said is worse than physical torture.
6. Masks work, except when they don't, but then maybe they do. So there's no point in us wearing them because they don't do anything until we are mandated to wear them because they make a crucial difference.
7. The fuhrer won't let us meet in large groups because that's dangerous but it's OK for him to join a protest that violates his own order because that's safe.
I work in a restaurant, no mask no service.. Until you sit down, then you are allowed to take it off as long as you sit down...?

This is all druidic America, cover your face and ritually stand 6 feet apart from each other, meanwhile China has open wet markets again and are doing great!

Orange man... bad
 

tango

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I work in a restaurant, no mask no service.. Until you sit down, then you are allowed to take it off as long as you sit down...?

This is all druidic America, cover your face and ritually stand 6 feet apart from each other, meanwhile China has open wet markets again and are doing great!

Orange man... bad

Of course. Once you sit down the virus can't transmit. Just like it can't transmit if you're in a branch of a huge corporation but is deadly if you're the only person in a small independent store.

It makes me think of the lunacy of things like closing trail shelters. Because the people who can be trusted to maintain six feet of separation on the trail will apparently try to copulate or something if the shelter is open. I suppose it makes sense - people who can be trusted to stay six feet apart in the (essential) marijuana store apparently can't be trusted to stay six feet apart in church.
 

tango

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One interesting thing is to compare places like Japan and the US. From what I can tell Japan has much less of a problem with the virus despite people being packed in on top of each other. A couple of friends visited Tokyo and it sounds like their trains make the NYC subway look positively spacious even at rush hour.

One article I read suggested that the Japanese lifestyle is fundamentally more healthy than the American lifestyle, which sounds entirely plausible. The incidence of obesity is one thing but the levels of extreme obesity in the US are truly remarkable. I'm not exactly hugely traveled but I've been to a few places around Europe and the US and I've never seen obesity anything like the US anywhere else. In Europe being so fat you can't even walk without a mobility scooter is all but unheard of; in the US it seems to be not only accepted but all but expected that stores will lay on scooters for people so obese they can't walk under their own strength. People who are so morbidly obese they could lose half their body weight and still be morbidly obese, who ride around on mobility scooters eating super-jumbo sized ice cream and caramel corn appear to be one of many quirks of the US. And of course just about everything in the US offers drive-thru facilities because, you know, perish the thought someone might have to actually get out of their SUV and burn a few calories walking all the way to the counter. And then there's the diet, heavily processed food every which way and huge lines at McDonalds.

It's interesting to see the relative levels of panic around COVID and other things people freely choose to do. People panic that COVID can cause long-term lung damage but then smoke. People panic that COVID can damage their hearts but the lines at McDonalds don't get any shorter and people drive to get the mail because they can't be bothered to walk all the way to the end of their driveway, or they drive to the store that's less than 100 yards from their house.

Another interesting article I read looked at the correlation between severity of COVID symptoms and vitamin D deficiency. The article was clear that correlation doesn't automatically mean there is a causality but it was interesting to see a strong correlation between severity of COVID symptoms and vitamin D deficiency. The best way to get vitamin D is to be outside, but how many people seldom go outside other than for the walk (the shortest possible walk, naturally) between their air conditioned car and the air conditioned building they are going to? The vitamin D issue could also explain why non-whites suffer more because apparently they need more time in the sun for their skin to produce comparable amounts of vitamin D, with blacks needing more time than Hispanics, and Hispanics needing more time than whites. For good measure ultraviolet light is known as an antiviral (I think it's UV-C that's the most effective), which adds another reason to be out in the sun. Guess what you're not doing if you're "sheltering in place" or "staying home"?

Obviously anything that transmits based on human proximity will affect urban areas more than rural areas for no reason other than population density. At the same time, "stay home" looks very different if you live in a high-rise apartment block in the inner city compared to living in a house with a yard in a rural area. So the people who most need to get out and soak up some vitamin D are the ones most likely to be stopped from doing so by orders to stay at home. Not only that but such orders are more easily enforced in urban areas than rural areas.

I wonder how much issues like this will destroy cities, as those who can afford it may well look to move to more remote areas to escape the madness.
 

tango

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The third article on the page you linked mentioned that vitamin D deficiency appears to correlate with predisposition to COVID, although it notes (as the article I mentioned also noted) that correlation isn't the same as causality.

It may be that obesity, age and ethnicity happen to be correlated to both increased susceptibility and increased vitamin D deficiency as a result of some other factor. It's just interesting to see when correlations exist, to try and figure whether it is likely to represent a causality, a link, or something that happens to correlate without meaning anything at all.
 

Lamb

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The high numbers in America are false positives.
You know my dad went to Taiwan in the 90s as part of a business trip and they are all practically stacked and packed on top of each other.. guess how many death's they have had due to covid since the pandemic... 7.

My sister works in an old folks hospice home and all deaths are considered Covid related, it's all propaganda folks, to blame the bad orange man.

Isn't it just awful how all deaths are being considered Covid in those places? And then you get the naysayers who insist that's not what is happening but too many people are confirming it.
 

tango

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Isn't it just awful how all deaths are being considered Covid in those places? And then you get the naysayers who insist that's not what is happening but too many people are confirming it.

I forget where I found the article that compared the US to (I think) Sweden and how the US reports all deaths that even loosely involve COVID and being COVID deaths while the other country differentiates between people who died of COVID from people who died with COVID.

The way the US does it seems to make no more sense than to argue that the person who died when they had a heart attack while driving and crashed into a tree died of indigestion because they had a packet of Tums in their pocket.

Interestingly, the UK is looking at making face coverings compulsory in shops. They're doing it properly, with a Parliamentary vote rather than executive diktat, but from what I can tell it looks like children under 11 will be exempt. They're following the science, apparently. That would be the same science that US states are allegedly following when they require masks to be worn by anyone over the age of 2.

So does a 4-year-old represent a threat or not? Apparently the science says yes, and at the same time the science says no. And the powers that be wonder why people don't pay attention to them.
 

hedrick

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So does a 4-year-old represent a threat or not? Apparently the science says yes, and at the same time the science says no. And the powers that be wonder why people don't pay attention to them.
There are things we don't know yet. There's not enough data being collected on children. But there are things that are known. The fact that we're not sure about children doesn't discredit things that are known.
 

tango

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There are things we don't know yet. There's not enough data being collected on children. But there are things that are known. The fact that we're not sure about children doesn't discredit things that are known.

I'm not sure I said it did discredit things that were known. It's just hard to take political leaders seriously when they claim they "follow the science" but the reality looks like they are making it up as they go along. If one "science driven" policy says an 8-year-old child is a danger and another "science driven" policy says that same child is not a danger, it's hardly surprising people wonder whether those making the decisions know what they are talking about at all, no?

Of course it's really hard to follow anything useful when a "COVID death" might mean someone who died of COVID, it might mean someone who died of something unrelated but happened to also have COVID, it might mean someone who was a presumed COVID death, and it might mean someone who died of something totally unrelated but the death certificate said COVID even though they didn't have it.
 

Lamb

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A news article today said there are signs of lasting immunity even in mild coronavirus victims and this is promising news! Looks like the panic just might end in November after all ;)
 
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