Open/Closed Doors

[NewCreation435]

"Often things do become more difficult after we obey God. You cannot determine if you’re in God’s will by whether or not things are going well in your current circumstances. “Open” and “closed” doors are not always indications of God’s direction." From Experiencing God, Henry Blackaby (underline mine)

We discussed this quote in my group today where we are discussing the book "Experiencing God" by Henry and Richard Blackaby. Do you agree that once we obey God that sometimes things actually become more difficult? Are open or closed doors always an indication that something is God's will? How do you discern the difference?

 

[Josiah]

"Often things do become more difficult after we obey God. You cannot determine if you’re in God’s will by whether or not things are going well in your current circumstances. “Open” and “closed” doors are not always indications of God’s direction." From Experiencing God, Henry Blackaby (underline mine)

We discussed this quote in my group today where we are discussing the book "Experiencing God" by Henry and Richard Blackaby. Do you agree that once we obey God that sometimes things actually become more difficult? Are open or closed doors always an indication that something is God's will? How do you discern the difference?

Determining God's will is often subjective. Yeah, is it God's will that I murder my next door neighbor? Nope. But is it God's will that I sell my house and buy another? Ah, not so easy..... I think several things can HELP, and the "open/closed" thing is one (just one)... taken together, there is help there but still, it may not be black and white.

As for following God, yeah - when a person has one lord (Satan), one "Adam", one nature - it's easier. I once heard a person say, "The unchristian has it easy - Satan doesn't bother with him, but when he becomes a Christian, he becomes a target." Probably some truth there. The Bible is full of statements about struggles and hard times, quite the opposite of the "Properity" preachers. To quote another, "We are crew on a battleship, not guests on a cruise ship."

 

[tango]

Some good points in here already, and only one reply before mine!

Sometimes we can be clear that a course of action isn't in God's will. The Bible tells us some things are required and some are prohibited. In the middle is a range of things where Scripture is silent. For example, Jesus said "go into the world...." but whether that means my call is to preach the gospel to my local community or sell my house and move half way around the world isn't written into Scripture.

There are times when following God's will results in doors swinging open just as we approach them, as if by magic. Other times they appear closed but open when we push. Sometimes a door appears to be closed but then another path opens. And maybe God uses one thing as a catalyst to get us to move, only to provide something else when we get nearer the mark.

Another consideration is that if we are following God's call we can expect spiritual opposition, whereas if we are just sitting comfortably and well back from the battle lines we won't see the same level of opposition.

A couple of personal examples....

Before my wife and I moved to this area we both felt God was calling us to it, but we wanted to have a church lined up before we moved. Over time things fell into place, including finding a church. By the time we moved the church had totally gone off the rails, buying in massively to the extremities of the prosperity gospel, false prophets, the works. It was clear nothing was going to change, and I ended up wondering whether the move had been a mistake. But a chance meeting unrelated to church led me to a different local church, where my wife and I have been members for some years now.

In another thread I mentioned that my wife and I have been approved to adopt a child. When we felt God was calling us to take that path we reached out to a local agency but found many of the required forms were all but impossible to fill because we don't quite fit into any of the boxes. Just about every which way we turned resulted in more questions, questions that our family worker couldn't immediately answer because she hadn't been asked them before. Every which way it seemed like a door might close on us, not because we were necessarily unsuited to the task but because we couldn't provide this form or that piece of paperwork. But each and every time a door that looked like it was swinging closed didn't actually close. And finally we got our approval. It will be interesting to see whether the process of being matched with a child who needs a home will prove easier or harder than is "normal".

 

[Particular]

"Often things do become more difficult after we obey God. You cannot determine if you’re in God’s will by whether or not things are going well in your current circumstances. “Open” and “closed” doors are not always indications of God’s direction." From Experiencing God, Henry Blackaby (underline mine)

We discussed this quote in my group today where we are discussing the book "Experiencing God" by Henry and Richard Blackaby. Do you agree that once we obey God that sometimes things actually become more difficult? Are open or closed doors always an indication that something is God's will? How do you discern the difference?

The sanctification of the saint comes in many facets. The writer of Hebrews tells us this:

Hebrews 12:5-29 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears. For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest and the sound of a trumpet and a voice whose words made the hearers beg that no further messages be spoken to them. For they could not endure the order that was given, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned.” Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I tremble with fear.” But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven. At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.” This phrase, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of things that are shaken—that is, things that have been made—in order that the things that cannot be shaken may remain. Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe, for our God is a consuming fire.

 

[NewCreation435]

The sanctification of the saint comes in many facets. The writer of Hebrews tells us this:

Hebrews 12:5-29 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears. For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest and the sound of a trumpet and a voice whose words made the hearers beg that no further messages be spoken to them. For they could not endure the order that was given, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned.” Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I tremble with fear.” But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven. At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.” This phrase, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of things that are shaken—that is, things that have been made—in order that the things that cannot be shaken may remain. Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe, for our God is a consuming fire.

what does that have to do with my post?

 

[Particular]

what does that have to do with my post?

We are always in God's will. Good or bad experiences come by God's ordinance. When we walk with God, he disciplines us (trains us). That training may be very difficult, but it is by God's good purpose. Hebrews 12 tells us this will happen and we should not lose heart.

Even when we have walked away from God, we are not out of His will. We are out of His fellowship, but not out of His will.

Since God does not use a urim and thummin to direct us, nor use the casting of lots; we make our decision and trust that God is perfectly in control no matter the decision we make. Make your decision and trust God. Don't be like a boat tossed on a wave. Just decide and trust.

 

[NewCreation435]

We are always in God's will. Good or bad experiences come by God's ordinance. When we walk with God, he disciplines us (trains us). That training may be very difficult, but it is by God's good purpose. Hebrews 12 tells us this will happen and we should not lose heart.

Even when we have walked away from God, we are not out of His will. We are out of His fellowship, but not out of His will.

Since God does not use a urim and thummin to direct us, nor use the casting of lots; we make our decision and trust that God is perfectly in control no matter the decision we make. Make your decision and trust God. Don't be like a boat tossed on a wave. Just decide and trust.

I disagree completely. If I am disobedient and sinning I am not in God's will. If I was, then God would be wrong to correct me since I am only doing what is His will.

 

[Particular]

I disagree completely. If I am disobedient and sinning I am not in God's will. If I was, then God would be wrong to correct me since I am only doing what is His will.

You are in sin. God ordained sin. Meaning that God, by His Sovereign will, chose to allow you to walk in sin. You never left His will. You did, however, walk in disobedience.

I suspect our differences are in how we view God's Sovereignty in action and thus how we perceive the will of God.

From my perspective, no human has the capacity to thwart the will of God. When we walk in disobedience, God gave us over to that sin, but His will for how our lives play out hasn't changed. We humans just don't have that kind of power to create such chaos in God's omnipotent will.

 

[tango]

I disagree completely. If I am disobedient and sinning I am not in God's will. If I was, then God would be wrong to correct me since I am only doing what is His will.

I read an article some time back that talked of God's will. I remember there were three aspects to it - sovereign will, something else, and permissive will. Permissive will was described as things God allows to happen even if they aren't necessarily what God would have chosen. So if you decide to have an affair with your secretary or poison your neighbor's dog or something you aren't doing what God would have wanted but you are doing something that God allows to happen.

I think a lot of differences of opinion will come down to the question of whether God preordains some things to happen or all things to happen. I suspect going there will derail the thread beyond redemption.

 

[NewCreation435]

I read an article some time back that talked of God's will. I remember there were three aspects to it - sovereign will, something else, and permissive will. Permissive will was described as things God allows to happen even if they aren't necessarily what God would have chosen. So if you decide to have an affair with your secretary or poison your neighbor's dog or something you aren't doing what God would have wanted but you are doing something that God allows to happen.

I think a lot of differences of opinion will come down to the question of whether God preordains some things to happen or all things to happen. I suspect going there will derail the thread beyond redemption.

Yes, that seems to happen a lot (derailing threads).

 

[Particular]

The OP said this:

"Often things do become more difficult after we obey God. You cannot determine if you’re in God’s will by whether or not things are going well in your current circumstances. “Open” and “closed” doors are not always indications of God’s direction." From Experiencing God, Henry Blackaby (underline mine)

I shared Hebrews 12:5-29, expressing how the writer of Hebrews viewed the events of his life.
Paul, in his writings, found contentment in all things as God brought him through calm and calamity.
We worry far too much about the path and far too less about the process. God is in the process of sanctifying us. His purpose is to make us in the image of Christ so that we reflect our Savior. The path we go down is less important that the process our King will use to make us holy. Don't sweat the path. Do what seems wisest and trust God to direct your path. That choice is less important than the choice to trust God's Sovereign care in all circumstances. "In this life there will be troubles..."

 

[tango]

I think it's very easy to get caught up in the idea that God has a very specific path our life is supposed to follow and any deviation from that path is therefore a Very Bad Thing. If we go too far down that path we worry about every little decision we have to make and what God might be leading us to do in the most trivial details.

For the most part I think God's plan for us is, as Particular says above, to sanctify us and make us more like Jesus. There may be times when our path meanders through metaphorical hills and vales where the precise steps we take are of less importance then the overall direction we are going. There may be times when we face a metaphorical bridge over a ravine, where the bridge is the only way to cross the ravine. In a situation like that what matters is that we reach the bridge and cross it, not the exact path we took to get to the bridge.

Too much worry about fine detail can result in paralysing fear. Whether we're thinking that God has one specific person designated as our spouse-to-be and therefore any other person is Wrong, whether God has a very specific career path for us and the slightest deviation is therefore Wrong, whether God wants us to live in a particular house and so even buying the house next door is Wrong, the mental process becomes one more of anguish and uncertainty than peace and joy.

God's call is conceptually very simple - "be holy, as I am holy". "Love God". "Love each other". If God wants to call any individual one of us to do something specific he is quite capable of making that clear.