WHO DOES BAPTISM SAVE?

[Doug]

Only believing Israel is saved by baptism.

Only believing Israel is instructed to be baptized.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

The ark is not the "like figure" or picture or type: the water is the "like figure". Water saved Noah and his family, and the Jews Peter is speaking to will likewise be saved by baptism. The flood waters put away the filth of the flesh by destroying the wicked.

Baptism will save Israel by the resurrection of Christ.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?


8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Before the dispensation of the grace of God Jews had to believe on the name of Jesus for salvation unto eternal life. They had to believe Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God. Upon belief they were then baptized.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Jesus commanded the twelve disciples to baptize. Jesus said in Mark 16:16 that baptism was part of their salvation.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Paul after his conversion was baptized to wash away sin according to the commandment given Israel. Paul submitted to be baptized so as not to give offence to Ananias, who was devout to the law.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter speaking in Acts 2:38 said baptism was for the remission or forgiveness of sins. Peter also said they would receive the Holy Ghost through baptism.

Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Jesus was buried and rose again. According to Peter, Christ was raised to sit on the throne of David in the prophetic earthly kingdom (Matthew 8:11 Luke 1:32-33).

Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

In the day of the coming of Jesus the waters of the fountain will cleanse Israel of sin.

Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

God made the covenants with Israel alone (Romans 9:4). God made the new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah only (Jeremiah 31:31). The new covenant will cleanse saved Israel with water.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Jesus came the first time to bear the sins of Israel. The believing remnant of Israel would be looking for his second coming for salvation. For Israel their salvation rested upon the coming of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

The times of refreshing was the coming of Jesus. Jesus being resurrected is in heaven. Jesus was first to be received into heaven and upon Israel's conversion, be sent for their salvation when their sins would be forgiven and blotted out (Jeremiah 31:34).

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

The new covenant gives saved Israel a new spirit. God will put his spirit in them and will cause them to keep the commandments of God. God will do for Israel what Israel was never able, nor never be able to do, of itself.

The death of Jesus put in force the new testament, by which Israel's transgressions under the first testament could be forgiven (Hebrews 9:15-17), and be the means by which God can forgive their iniquity under the new covenant (Jeremiah 31:34).

1 Peter 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Peter talks of Jesus, who is gone into heaven, in the verse above. This speaks of his resurrection, which will fulfill the future promise of the spirit to renew Israel by the new covenant. The resurrection of Jesus ensured the fulfillment of the kingdom, and the new covenant.

Baptism saved Israel by the remission of sins. The salvation spoken of is not unto eternal life; that came by grace and by the faith of Christ, by which they believed on him as the Christ, the Son of God.The remission of sins gave Israel the answer of a good conscience toward God ( 1 Peter 3:21). The water of baptism provided the remission of sins to cleanse Israel to be priests of God in the kingdom (Exodus 40:12-15 Leviticus 8:6 Hebrews 10:22).

Israel, by the resurrection of Christ, and the new covenant, would be born again to live unto God in righteousness (1 Peter 2:24), and enter the kingdom to be a light to the Gentiles. That which was prophesied will be fulfilled, the nations will be blessed by Israel (Genesis 18:18 Genesis 26:4).

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Israel has been born again by the lively hope of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. They can have full assurance that their baptism will save them since Jesus has been raised again and is alive in heaven on the right hand of God to save them, and fulfill the new covenant.

1 Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

The resurrection of Jesus assured Israel that their salvation would be realized by his coming.

 

[Josiah]

1 "Israel" is believers, the church.

2. There is no verse that REMOTELY states, "Thou art FORBIDDEN to baptize or teach or art not over the age of you-won't-be-told-what and who hath not first proven that they hath chosen Jesus as their personal Savior and chanted the Sinner's Prayer."


Is Baptism simply an inert, ineffectual action or rite? A ritualistic act that God cannot use for anything? Perhaps symbolizing stuff or reminding of stuff but ineffectual of anything? Or does Scripture suggest that God actually can accomplish something via Baptism, that God can use it for something?


NOTE: no one argues that symbolism is not involved; the new view is that it is ONLY a symbol. Foot washing is a powerful symbol that Jesus instituted; but there is nothing in Scripture or the Early Church that suggests it is anything MORE than that. And so the ACT was never much emphasized or practiced, and nothing is said in Scritpure about it. The Anabaptist position is that Baptism is just such a pure symbol. No one disputes there is symbolism involved (Luther stressed such), the dispute is the dogma invented by the Anabaptists in the 16th Century that that's ALL it is. Much like foot washing.


In the 16th Century, the synergistic Anabaptists overturned 1500 years of Christian faith by inventing a new dogma that baptism is an ineffectual, inert ritual that accomplishes nothing (spiritual or otherwise). They stressed that it is ONLY a symbol They invented an entirely new and never before heard of concept that "Baptism is visible, outward proof of the person choosing Jesus as their personal Savior, etc., etc." They repudiated and denounced every baptism in history and of every non-Anabaptist because this view was found nowhere but among the Anabaptist. Additionally, they invented several new prohibitions/mandates on the practice of Baptism: 1) A certain never-disclosed AGE must first be attained by the recipient ("Anti-Paedobaptism - no baptisms for children), 2) The recipient must first adequately prove they have chosen Jesus as their personal Savior ("Credobaptism"), 3) The recipient must first prove they have adequately repented of all their sins, 4) The recipient must have every part of their body entirely and fully immersed under water (Immersion Only Baptism). THIS thread is not about those prohibitions/mandates that they invented. There are already threads on these new inventions, but this is about their theology: Baptism is ONLY an OUTWARD symbol of inner good works performed by the recipient. In effect, they claimed that Baptism is what Christians had held Confirmation to be. It was a radical idea, a brand new one, reversing 1500 years of universal Christianity.



What does SCRIPTURE say?


I can find no Scriptures that state or indicate that Baptism is inert, ineffectual, just a symbolic ritual. Or that only those over a never-disclosed age can receive this. Or that only those who have adequately proven that they have chanted the Sinner's Pray may recieve it. IMO, that new Dogma (one of the defining, distictive dogmas of Baptists) is without any Scripture whatsoever. There is not one Scripture that remotely indicates that Baptism does nothing, accomplishes nothing, that it is SO stressed in the NT and SO important in the Book of Act and placed equal with teaching in the Great Commission, SO important in the Early Church because... well... worthless, not used by God. There is NOTHING in Scripture to support the Anabaptist's invented dogma of "ONLY an outward symbol of an inner good work performed by the recipient."

But there are several Scriptures, that when taken together, suggest something quite different. IMO, I'm not sure one can create DOGMA here, but there certainly is a powerful implication that God DOES something via baptism,or at least that this can be a "means of grace" - something God can use to convey His gifts. Let's look at some...


Acts 22:16

Acts 2:38

1 Peter 3:21

Romans 6:3-4

1 Corinthians 6:11

1 Corinthians 12:13

Galatians 3:26-27

Ephesians 5:25-27

Colossians 2:11-12

Titus 3:5

1 Peter 3:18-22

John 3:5

Acts 2:38

Romans 6:3-4

1 Corinthians 12:13

Galatians 3:27

Colossians 2:11-12


A couple of quick notes: Nowhere in any of these is the word "then" or "after which" used; the word is "kai" (and) which only associates or connects things; it does not mean or imply sequence or chronological order Also the word "wash" in some of the above verses is a variant of the word "baptize" or "baptism."


I admit no ONE verse above is indisputable or perspicuous, but together there is a strong indication. And equally significant is that we find nothing that indicates that it is a inert, ineffectual ritual; only a symbol.


We need to also consider that Jesus, the Apostles and the Early Church gave great importance to this! Jesus places it along side of (and seemingly equal to) teaching in the Great Commission, for example. It seems less likely that it would be regarded as so very critical if it is an inert, ineffectual ritual that changes and accomplishes nothing at all. Jesus used the symbol of foot washing, for example, but that ACT was never given much importance and rarely practiced because everyone acknowledged it was a SYMBOL of something inward. Baptism could not be more different.




What Did the Early Christians believe?


Again, we find none prior to that synergistic Anabaptist in the late 16th Century who view Baptism as just an inert ritual, only symbol, but great things are ascribed to it. NOT EVEN ONE who spoke of baptism as "an outward act of an inner decision or good work." Below is just a tiny sample. Note that the context of each is WATER BAPTISM.


The Epistle of Barnabas (A.D. 130) “This means that we go down into the water full of sins and foulness, and we come up bearing fruit in our hearts, fear and hope in Jesus and in the Spirit.”

The Shepherd of Hermas (A.D. 140?): "they descend into the water dead, and they arise alive.”

St. Justin Martyr (A.D. 160?) "And we, who have approached God through Him, have received not carnal, but spiritual circumcision, which Enoch and those like him observed. And we have received it through baptism, since we were sinners, by God’s mercy; and all men may equally obtain it."

St. Irenaeus (A.D. 190?). "And when we come to refute them [i.e. those heretics], we shall show in its fitting-place, that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God, and thus to a renunciation of the whole [Christian] faith."

St. Irenaeus (A.D. 190?) "“Now, this is what faith does for us, as the elders, the disciples of the apostles, have handed down to us. First of all, it admonishes us to remember that we have received baptism for the remission of sins in the name of God the Father, and in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became incarnate and died and raised."

St. Clement of Alexandra (A.D. 215?) "The same also takes place in our case, whose exemplar Christ became. Being baptized, we are illuminated; illuminated, we become sons; being made sons, we are made perfect; being made perfect, we are made immortal."

St. Clement of Alexandra (A.D. 215?) "For it is said, “Put on him the best robe,” which was his the moment he obtained baptism. I mean the glory of baptism, the remission of sins, and the communication of the other blessings, which he obtained immediately he had touched the font."

St. Cyprian (A.D. 255) responding to a man who was asking him the specific question of whether or not the pouring of water in baptism would be valid: "You have asked also, dearest son, what I thought about those who obtain the grace of God while they are weakened by illness – whether or not they are to be reckoned as legitimate Christians who have not been bathed with the saving water, but have had it poured over them."


There are countless more. My point here is not the individual things here said, but the unavoidable and universal affirmation that Baptism is not an inert, ineffectual, mere ritual or pure symbol... Nowhere do we see any sense of it as some "outward ritual indicating a previous good work." Universally, baptism is seen as something God uses to accomplish something. Not until the late 16th Century.... not until the Anabaptists invented the new dogma of "Baptism Can't Do Anything" did ANY Christian agree with that view or even express it. The Anabaptist invention is found nowhere in the Bible and nowhere among Christians .... it is a radical new dogma invented by the radical Anabaptists in the late 16th Century, used to denounce and repudiate as invalid all baptisms that did not involve them.


I am NOT saying this is a "slam dunk".... any more than say the Trinity. I'm only saying the suggestion of both Scripture and history is quite solidly on the historic side, and we simply find NOTHING in Scripture or history that supports the Anabaptist reinvention (nor did they even claim such). I wonder, too, about the argument that "it is OBVIOUS by the words in Scripture that Baptism in just a outward symbol of personal accomplishments and good works by the person." IF it's obvious, where are those Scriptures? And why did no one notice that for over 1500 years, if it's "OBVIOUS?"




I welcome Scriptures that indicate that Baptism is ONLY an outward symbol of inner accomplishments; that it's sole function is to outwardly SYMBOLIZE a proven reality already accomplished by the individual.




Thank you.


- Josiah



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[Josiah]

The new dogma that Baptism is just an outward, inert, ineffectual symbol was invented by the Anabaptists in the 16th Century. It's now common in Baptist groups that descended from the Anabaptists and also in modern "Evangelicalism" (especially in the USA) and in some "cults."

Understanding the ancient, orthodox and majority view is admittedly complex. Here is a thread about that. It requires SEVERAL POINTS and thus about a dozen posts. Most Christians don't have the attention span for that, I'll admit. But it's there.

Lutheran Perspective on Baptism

There are several points, they are to be taken TOGETHER, they will mean several posts (since post length here is restricted). I share NOT with the goal of changing anyone's mind on this but to share the perspective of Lutherans on this. Let me make clear too that there are several issues here...

www.christianityhaven.com

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[atpollard]

Baptism saves no one, in and of itself. Immersing or sprinkling every person in the world at gunpoint will not result in universal salvation. This is salvation:

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. [Eph 2:1-10 NASB]​

God saves. God chooses the means. God chooses the time. God predestines the results. It looks one way for the thief on the cross, another way for the fisherman from Galilee named Peter, still another way for an Ethiopian eunuch, and yet again different for Saul on the road to Damascus or Lydia preparing her cloth by the river. The common denominator in all of those cases is GOD ... “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God”.

 

[atpollard]

2. There is no verse that REMOTELY states, "Thou art FORBIDDEN to baptize or teach or art not over the age of you-won't-be-told-what and who hath not first proven that they hath chosen Jesus as their personal Savior and chanted the Sinner's Prayer."


Is Baptism simply an inert, ineffectual action or rite? A ritualistic act that God cannot use for anything? Perhaps symbolizing stuff or reminding of stuff but ineffectual of anything? Or does Scripture suggest that God actually can accomplish something via Baptism, that God can use it for something?

You do realize that you are refuting a claim that the OP has not even made?

If you will reread the OP, his argument is that WATER BAPTISM is for biological Israel and not for gentile Christians ... which has absolutely NOTHING to do with Infant baptism or the topic of “Sacrament” or “Ordinance”. However thank you for not letting an opportunity to pass without reminding all visiting Baptists that you hate our beliefs and hold them in contempt ... however off topic to the discussion that reminder might be.