6th day of creation question

[Andrew]

Was the day man was created the same day as the fall?

1. God took man from the east of Paradise and put him in the Garden and breathed life into him and he became a living soul
2. Adam names all the animals
3. God puts Adam in a deep sleep, removes a rib from him to create for him his wife 'Eve'
4. God blesses them and warns Adam and Eve of forbidden fruit
5. Eve is tempted and takes the fruit and gives it to Adam
6. God in the cool of the day calls for Adam and finds him and Eve hiding in the bushes because they ate the forbidden fruit
7. God expels Adam and Eve from the Garden

"The day you eat you will surely die"

"God rested on the seventh day"

So they died spiritually I accept that.. God rested on the seventh day I accept that.. but did God rest after the Fall or did all of these events occur in one 24 hour day?

The reason I ask is because I've been running into Evolutionary Creationists online and one fellow brought up this question so I thought I would share this to hear your thoughts and answers

 

[tango]

Where does it say the fall took place on the sixth day?

 

[Andrew]

Where does it say the fall took place on the sixth day?

It doesn't, but isn't that what the majority of Christians assume?

 

[tango]

It doesn't, but isn't that what the majority of Christians assume?

If anything I think the text suggests the opposite. God saw that what he created was good at the end of the sixth day, so presumably the fall hadn't happened by then or God wouldn't have seen his creation was good.

 

[Andrew]

If anything I think the text suggests the opposite. God saw that what he created was good at the end of the sixth day, so presumably the fall hadn't happened by then or God wouldn't have seen his creation was good.

Totally agree!

 

[tango]

Totally agree!

So why did you think the majority of Christians assumed the opposite?

 

[Andrew]

So why did you think the majority of Christians assumed the opposite?

Well like I said, I run across them on social media, they sense that because the 6th day is both mans creation and fall (opposed to 24 hours) that perhaps God used evolution to create everything... So basically apes became cavemen and then once they evolved into modern man, God spoke to Adam (and Eve?) and this evidently took millions of years or whatever to accomplish, and then some time after mankind backslid... or something like that.

They believe in the full scope of science evolution (theory) and the 6th days of creation as one and the same.

 

[psalms 91]

There is a section of Christians that believe the fall occured within hours of Adam being created but I tend to lean towards what was stated about eh seventh day.

 

[tango]

Well like I said, I run across them on social media, they sense that because the 6th day is both mans creation and fall (opposed to 24 hours) that perhaps God used evolution to create everything... So basically apes became cavemen and then once they evolved into modern man, God spoke to Adam (and Eve?) and this evidently took millions of years or whatever to accomplish, and then some time after mankind backslid... or something like that.

They believe in the full scope of science evolution (theory) and the 6th days of creation as one and the same.

The trouble with this reasoning is that it's flawed from the start.

The Bible doesn't inherently support the notion that the fall occurred on the 6th day so any argument that states "because the 6th day is both man's creation and fall then X" doesn't actually support X at all.

Where Scripture is silent it is logically valid, up to a point, to fill in the blanks in ways that may support a specific theory. It's the sort of thing that requires a lot of care because it's very easy to end up with all sorts of truly ludicrous notions on the basis they aren't explicitly ruled out by Scripture. To give an example, in Acts 2 where Peter addresses the crowd the text doesn't explicitly state that he didn't stand on a platform made of green cheese with strawberry frosting but you'd need to torture any sense of reality to conclude that Scripture's silence could be taken to support a theory that required him to have done so.

Personally I don't think the account of creation in Genesis rules out theistic evolution. It says "God created..." without giving any indication how God created. Perhaps God took a lump of earth and created something that wriggles in the sea, then another day he took a lump of clay and made something that flew in the air. Perhaps he took a lump of earth and made a fish, then took a fish and tweaked it so it had legs and could walk on the land. The only aspect of theistic evolution I can't see any support for in Scripture is the idea that man evolved from animals because the text is clear that God formed Adam from the dust of the earth. I don't see any way to conclude that, as far as the origins of man are concerned, either evolution theory is wrong or the Bible is wrong.

 

[NewCreation435]

It doesn't tell us how long Adam and Eve were in the garden before they sinned. it could have been one day or ten thousand.

 

[Pedrito]

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tango (Post #9):

The Bible doesn't inherently support the notion that the fall occurred on the 6th day...

Exactly the opposite in fact.

Genesis 2:1 tells us “Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.”

The creation was completed on the sixth day (“yom” - time period).

The “completed” in Verse 2 has the sense of “had completed” or “stopped” or “ceased from”.

The fall of the previously created man, and the announced initiation of a plan to deal with that, are subsequent to the finalisation of God’s creative activities.

They have nothing to do with the sixth day.

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[hobie]

Was the day man was created the same day as the fall?

1. God took man from the east of Paradise and put him in the Garden and breathed life into him and he became a living soul
2. Adam names all the animals
3. God puts Adam in a deep sleep, removes a rib from him to create for him his wife 'Eve'
4. God blesses them and warns Adam and Eve of forbidden fruit
5. Eve is tempted and takes the fruit and gives it to Adam
6. God in the cool of the day calls for Adam and finds him and Eve hiding in the bushes because they ate the forbidden fruit
7. God expels Adam and Eve from the Garden

"The day you eat you will surely die"

"God rested on the seventh day"

So they died spiritually I accept that.. God rested on the seventh day I accept that.. but did God rest after the Fall or did all of these events occur in one 24 hour day?

The reason I ask is because I've been running into Evolutionary Creationists online and one fellow brought up this question so I thought I would share this to hear your thoughts and answers

Here is some points which make sense...

"The language of Genesis one does not allow the necessary time prior to or during Creation week.2 Is it possible to find time after the Creation week—prior to Adam and Eve’s eviction from the Garden of Eden—as some have suggested?3 Does the Bible allow such an infusion of time in Genesis 3? Can we even know?

The argument is that millions of years could have elapsed in the Garden prior to the first sin, during which evolution and deep time occurred. Ages, presumably, were not being counted until the first sin. Several problems immediately surface upon considering such an assumption.

1. Genesis 1:14-15 indicates that the purpose of the stars as created during the Creation week was “to give light on the Earth,” “to divide the day from the night,” and to allow the only creatures who do so to reckon “signs and seasons…days and years.” Clearly, time, and specifically years, were being counted from the beginning. “So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died” (Genesis 5:5). However many years Adam and Eve were in the Garden, we know it was not more than 930.
2. How likely is it that humans would be able to resist temptation for one year, much less 930 years, much less 4,500,000,000 years? After all, Satan was already present “from the beginning” (John 8:44) trying to manipulate Adam and Eve to disobey God, and unlike today, even doing so in a direct, visible way—making verbal arguments to tempt Adam and Eve.
3. Genesis 3 recounts the first sin and the eviction of Adam and Eve from Paradise. God subsequently placed cherubim and a flaming sword in the path of any who would attempt to re-enter the Garden and eat from the Tree. The text proceeds to relate the events that followed their eviction. “Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain…. Then she bore again, this time his brother Abel” (4:1-2). Abel, of course, was ultimately murdered by Cain some time later. The implication by those seeking to squeeze in time after Creation, then, is that Adam and Eve were in the Garden for millions of years prior to even conceiving Cain and Abel. Jesus, however, stated that the blood of Abel was shed at the “foundation of the world”—not millions or billions of years later. Note that the evolutionary model argues that humans (the genus homo) arrived on the scene two to three million years ago—at least 13,798,000,000 years after the Universe began, and at the very end of recorded time, not at the foundation of the world.
4. Further, Genesis 5:3 indicates that Adam was 130 when Seth, who was born after Cain and Abel, was born. Adam and Eve could not have, therefore, been in the Garden for even 130 years.
5. Jesus called the devil “a murderer from the beginning,” the “father” of lies (John 8:44)—a clear allusion to his actions in the Garden which led to the death of Adam, Eve, and every human since. Adam and Eve’s “murder” was considered by Jesus to be at the “beginning,” not the end, of geologic time.
6. It is also the case that Adam and Eve had been commanded by God to “be fruitful and multiply, and fill the Earth” (Genesis 1:28). Upon marrying, Moses recounts God’s command for husband and wife: “a man shall…be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh” (2:24). If Adam and Eve had refused to do so, they would have been disobeying God and, therefore, sinning. Recall that humanity’s reluctance to “be fruitful and multiply, and fill the Earth” after the Flood (9:1) resulted in God’s actions at Babel (11:1ff.). We can, therefore, assume that Adam and Eve were obeying God, since their first sins were tied to eating from the forbidden Tree (3:6ff.), not from disobeying God’s command regarding procreation. Since Adam and Eve did not conceive a child until after their eviction from the Garden, it stands to reason that they were not even in the Garden long enough to do so.
7. Consider also that the desire to insert time into the biblical text is generally the result of an attempt to reconcile the Bible with contemporary geology (the geologic column) and paleontology (the fossil record). The fossil record, however, reveals that humans do not “evolve” until the late Cenozoic era—again, at the very top of the fossil record and geologic column. The 3.8 billion years of necessary time to reconcile the evolutionary timeframe of the fossil record with Scripture, therefore, must be injected before humans are even on the scene, not after Adam and Eve are in the Garden. In other words, even if Adam and Eve were in the Garden for millions of years, the biblical model would still not harmonize with the contemporary model."...

http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=9&article=5652

 

[Josiah]

It doesn't, but isn't that what the majority of Christians assume?

I've never heard that opinion....


.

 

[Pedrito]

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A few quick thoughts on Hobie’s thoughts expressed in Post #12.

The language of Genesis one does not allow the necessary time prior to or during Creation week.2 Is it possible to find time after the Creation week—prior to Adam and Eve’s eviction from the Garden of Eden—as some have suggested?3 Does the Bible allow such an infusion of time in Genesis 3? Can we even know?

The days of creation (and rest) are expressed in Genesis 1:5,8,13,19,23,31, and Geneses 2:2. Seven altogether.

Yet the first six days of that time period is called “the day” in Genesis 2:4. The Hebrew word “yom” covers a broad range of meanings in English. It allows people who so desire, to waste time speculating, instead of studying the Bible in its penetrating depth.

Genesis 1:14-15 indicates that the purpose of the stars as created during the Creation week...

The stars, sun and moon etc. were not said to be created in those verses (with Verse 16). They were created (Strong’s H1254) before the Earth’s formative processes are described. The word translated “made” in verse 16 (Strong’s H6213) is translated many ways into English, one of which is “appoint”. That would be consistent with the sun and moon becoming visible as cloud cover slowly dispersed.

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As pointed out elsewhere, Genesis Chapter 1 is in total agreement with the modern sciences. That is, if the recorded progression is understood to correspond to what an recorder near the surface of the Earth would have observed.

The real question is, how did Moses, or how did the original person (Adam?) from whom this knowledge was handed down to Moses, know? Consider: At what stage in modern history did the sciences catch up to Geneses 1? How long did it take them to do so?

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