Does "For Ever" mean forever?

[hobie]

Here is a great study by my buddy palehorse:
I felt it necessary to do this study for a variety of reasons; but the most important one, in my opinion, is dispelling the false belief of an ever-lasting hell which has turned more people away from the Bible (and Christianity) than probably any other singular topic. No one, not even me, would worship an unloving God that burned people in an ever-lasting torment for the ceaseless ages of eternity. The truth is that the Bible doesnt teach that and that concept flies in the face of the all-loving God we know Him to be; as such, denominations that teach this concept had better rethink their position not only for the sake of Biblical accuracy but also because this pagan teaching (which is rooted firmly in ancient Greek Hellenistic teachings) is causing the massive decay of the Christian church today.

The root of the problem here is the Biblical meaning of the words for ever, everlasting and the various forms of unquenchable, i.e. not be quenched. Most people, understandably so, misunderstand the Biblical concept of these terms. In the Bible these terms sometimes do and sometimes dont equate to our modern meaning of "forever". In todays usage these terms mean for the ceaseless ages of eternity for the most part though not exclusively. For example:
A married couple: they tell each other I'll love you forever but we all know that people die. What they are truly saying is they love each other until death, right? This is a parallel to see how even in modern times "forever" doesnt necessarily mean the ceaseless age of eternity.

So, lets establish what the Bible writers concept of forever was:
Genesis 43:9 - I will be surety for him; of my hand shalt thou require him: if I bring him not unto thee, and set him before thee, then let me bear the blame for ever:
Genesis 44:32 - For thy servant became surety for the lad unto my father, saying, If I bring him not unto thee, then I shall bear the blame to my father for ever.
This was pre-incarnate Jesus talking to the Father in regards to mans sin. Now, will Jesus bear the blame forever? No. (see Hebrews 9:28) The day will come when there is an end to sin. So the meaning here is clearly meant as until it is done.

Exodus 12:14 - And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
Exodus 12:17 - And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.
Exodus 12:24 - And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.
But we know that the feasts were done away with when the Old Covenant was fulfilled by Christ. Exodus 12:14 is talking about the institution of the Passover; later Jesus became our Passover (1 Corinthians 5:7). The key in this verse is the part that says by an ordinance. We know that the ordinances were nailed to the cross (Colossians 2:14); and there arent any ordinances in the 10 Commandments. So again we find that forever does not mean the ceaseless ages of eternity as is commonly misunderstood.

 

[hobie]

Lets get some more examples:
Exodus 19:9 - And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD.
The question here is, how can the people believe thee for ever if they were mere mortals? They could not, of course, unless they were saved and would get ressurected at Christ's second coming. They died and the dead know not anything (Ecclesiastes 9:5). The meaning here is that they would believe for as long as they lived, not the ceaseless ages of eternity. Also, the thick cloud that could be seen by day (it was a fire from the sky at night) was no longer seen after Moses death. So, again, for ever does not equate to our modern understanding of forever.

Exodus 21:6 - Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
Would it be possible for a servant or master to live forever? No. Is a man still a servant to another after death? No. This clearly means that the servant would be a servant for the rest of his life and not the ceaseless ages of eternity.
Exodus 27:21 - In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.
Exodus 28:43 - And they shall be upon Aaron, and upon his sons, when they come in unto the tabernacle of the congregation, or when they come near unto the altar to minister in the holy place; that they bear not iniquity, and die: it shall be a statute for ever unto him and his seed after him.
Did the earthly tabernacle and its ceremonies last forever? No. (see Col. 2:14) Again, we find the meaning of for ever to mean until it is done.

In the case of man, this means "as long as he lives" or "until death." (See 1 Samuel 1:22, 28; Exodus 21:6; Psalm 48:14.) So the wicked will burn in the fire as long as they live, or until death. This fiery punishment for sin will vary according to the degree of sins for each individual, but after the punishment, the fire will go out; it will not last for the ceaseless ages of eternity.
Jeremiah 17:27 - But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall NOT BE QUENCHED.
We all know that Jerusalem is not still burning today; as such the fire that shall not be quenched means that it cannot be put out UNTIL it has done Gods purpose. No man can quench it; only God can. And God obviously did quench that fire else it would still be burning to this day.

We find in the following verses the same concept:
Isaiah 1:28-31 - And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed. 29 For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen. 30 For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water. 31 And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.
The key here is the last part of the last line: and none shall quench them. This clearly means that no one will be able to quench the fire that burns the wicked. But just as we learned in Jeremiah 17:27 only God can quench a fire that He has started. God is consistent in His doings.
When we apply this to another example from Isaiah where he further talks of Christs second coming, we now understand it more clearly:
Isaiah 34:8-10 - For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance (this is when it happens not before) , and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
Now we see that from generation to generation means the generations of the wicked, i.e. generations of wicked poeple, not that the fire will last from generation to generation. The only way for that to mean otherwise would mean that people would be procreating in hell which is an absurd notion. That would then further mean that babies born in hell would burn for no reason. That idea goes totally against what we know of Gods character, does it not? Also in this verse we find another "not be quenched" phrase which by now is clearly understood to mean "unstoppable until it has served its purpose".

Lets look at Jonahs example:
Jonah 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars were about me FOR EVER: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
The book of Matthew says Jonah was in the belly of the whale THREE DAYS; not for ever. Here we see the same thing that for ever can mean a limited amount of time. Though I must say, to Jonah those 3 days must have seemed like forever. In Jonah 2:6, "for ever" means "three days and nights." (See Jonah 1:17.) In Deuteronomy 23:3, this meant "10 generations."

These examples should be ample to illustrate that for ever according to Biblical teachings does not mean the ceaseless ages of eternity. The same holds true for other phrases such as "not be quenched" and "everlasting". Now that weve firmly established the true scriptural concept involved here lets move on to the question of hell-fire.

 

[hobie]

Question: If the wicked burn in hell for the ceaseless ages of eternity then wouldnt they also have eternal life?
The wicked dont get eternal life, the Bible doesnt teach that:
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 John 3:15 - Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
John 3:15 - That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 5:39 - Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
John 6:54 - Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Romans 2:7 - To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Romans 5:21 - That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Proverbs 10:25 - As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation.
This verse is an example of everlasting actually meaning our modern usage of the word. Notice that the wicked become no more. If they burned in hell forever then this verse (and many others) should be removed from the Bible because they would totally contradict the concept that has been already been well established.
Isaiah 33:14 - The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
This verse goes back to showing that everlasting doesnt mean our modern usage. Notice the phrase devouring fire; how can a fire devour something that continues to exist? Simple it cannot. The fire DOES devour the sinners/wicked and they are no more.

When the Bible says the wicked will burn for ever it does NOT necessarily mean the ceaseless ages of eternity; it simply means until it is done/accomplished. To say those in hell will burn forever totally uproots the following verses and many more:
Isaiah 47: 9-14 But these two things shall come to thee in a moment in one day, the loss of children, and widowhood: they shall come upon thee in their perfection for the multitude of thy sorceries, and for the great abundance of thine enchantments. For thou hast trusted in thy wickedness: thou hast said, None seeth me. Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee; and thou hast said in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me. Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not know from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall upon thee; thou shalt not be able to put it off: and desolation shall come upon thee suddenly, which thou shalt not know. Stand now with thine enchantments, and with the multitude of thy sorceries, wherein thou hast laboured from thy youth; if so be thou shalt be able to profit, if so be thou mayest prevail. Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.
Quick note - stubble burns fairly quickly.

 

[hobie]

Malachi 4:1-3 - For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
If the dead burn in hell forever then they would be left with root and branch. Also, how can the righteous tread down the wicked that will be ashes if they are eternally burning forever? Simple, they cannot. The Bible does not contradict itself and a eternally burning hell is not scripturally accurate. That concept is foreign to the scriptures.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The wages of sin is not eternal life while burning in an eternal hell; the wages of sin is death. Hell-fire is the means used to bring about that death.

Psalms 37:20 - But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
Psalms 112:10 - The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish.
Proverbs 10:28 - The hope of the righteous shall be gladness: but the expectation of the wicked shall perish.
Psalms 68:2 - As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.
The wicked cannot perish and burn forever at the same time that would be an oxymoron if there ever was one. It would also mean that the Bible is inaccurate and inconsistent which it isn't. Again, it is US that must change our preconceived notions and accept what the Bible is telling us.

Psalm 104:35 - Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD.
Aha, the wicked will become no more; a verse that says it plainly.

Ezekiel 28:18, 19 - Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Another verse that says it plainly; they (the wicked) will be no more. They cant be burning forever AND be no more at the same time. Obviously it is the result that will be eternal and forever.

How does this all come together?
The Biblical teaching is simple; the results of hell-fire are eternal, everlasting, and forever; the actual fire and those burning in it are not. I think people can get confused with the actual burning and the final result and purpose of hell-fire. The result lasts forever, the fires do not. This confusion is reflected well in the following verse where "everlasting" is the stumbling-block word but now that you know the truth verses like this become easily understandble:
Daniel 12:2 - And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Conclusion:
Many portions of the Bible simply cannot be reconciled unless the reader understands that the term for ever or not be quenched or unquenchable can also mean until it is done/accomplished and not always the ceaseless ages of eternity as is the common English meaning. For the Bible to be consistent, which we all know it is and all believers should understand that, then WE must change, not the Bible. We must change our understanding and get rid of preconceived notions. As with anything, the reader must understand the context as well as the Biblical meaning of words, not the modern, in order to fully comprehend the meaning. The term "for ever," as used in the Bible, means simply a period of time, limited or unlimited. It is used 56 times in the Bible in connection with things that have already ended. The key is to consider its proper context and compare scriptures to get the full meaning. Unless one reads with the desire to understand and the willingness to compare scriptures then they will not understand this topic or any others that the Bible teaches, its just that simple.

 

[Josiah]

IMO, forever means forever.

I reject the universalism you proclaim, that EVERYONE is saved regardless of faith.



.

 

[Lamb]

Jesus said in Matthew 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

If Jesus didn't mean eternal punishment then neither did He mean eternal life? Of course He meant eternal life for those who trust in Him....so the same goes for those who reject Him which is eternal punishment.

 

[hobie]

Jesus said in Matthew 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

If Jesus didn't mean eternal punishment then neither did He mean eternal life? Of course He meant eternal life for those who trust in Him....so the same goes for those who reject Him which is eternal punishment.

If you look at here...
Matthew 25:41 King James Version (KJV)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

and compare to the text here...
Jude 7 King James Version (KJV)
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The fact is that eternal fire does not mean a fire that will never go out as we find same expression is used in Jude concerning the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha. In this use for the fire of "eternal" "everlasting" many are applying modern definitions without reference to their ancient contextual usage and violates one of the most fundamental rules of interpretation.

Sodom and Gomorrha are not still burning today, yet they burned with "eternal fire," and we are told that it was an example of something. So what example is it of, we see it in 2 Peter 2:6:

2 Peter 2:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

The eternal fire which brought Sodom to ashes is an example of what will finally happen to the wicked. So the fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha will also burn the wicked in the lake of fire. This is a eternal fire as like Sodom and Gomorrha they will be no more as it will burn the wicked to ashes.

 

[Lamb]

If you look at here...
Matthew 25:41 King James Version (KJV)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

and compare to the text here...
Jude 7 King James Version (KJV)
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The fact is that eternal fire does not mean a fire that will never go out as we find same expression is used in Jude concerning the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha. In this use for the fire of "eternal" "everlasting" many are applying modern definitions without reference to their ancient contextual usage and violates one of the most fundamental rules of interpretation.

Sodom and Gomorrha are not still burning today, yet they burned with "eternal fire," and we are told that it was an example of something. So what example is it of, we see it in 2 Peter 2:6:

2 Peter 2:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

The eternal fire which brought Sodom to ashes is an example of what will finally happen to the wicked. So the fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha will also burn the wicked in the lake of fire. This is a eternal fire as like Sodom and Gomorrha they will be no more as it will burn the wicked to ashes.

You didn't address my point at all. If there is no "eternal" punishment then in your type of thinking because you think eternal does not mean eternal that there is NO ETERNAL LIFE WITH GOD???? Address that please because it's in the verse I quoted.

 

[Josiah]

You didn't address my point at all. If there is no "eternal" punishment then in your type of thinking because you think eternal does not mean eternal that there is NO ETERNAL LIFE WITH GOD???? Address that please because it's in the verse I quoted.

Either that or the universalism our friend implied.

The Bible says "eternal" "forever" "everlasting." I think the Bible is probably correct.




.

 

[hobie]

You didn't address my point at all. If there is no "eternal" punishment then in your type of thinking because you think eternal does not mean eternal that there is NO ETERNAL LIFE WITH GOD???? Address that please because it's in the verse I quoted.

The wicked perish, they are no more for eternity or basically the ceaseless ages.
Here is a good explanation on this issue..
"In Biblical usage of the word “forever,” we see that the context and application MAY be for something that will come to an end. God said of the Temple that Solomon built, “‘For now I have chosen and sanctified this house, that My name may be there forever; and My eyes and My heart will be there perpetually'” (2 Chronicles 7:16). However, because of the sins of Israel and then Judah, God caused this Temple to be destroyed! (Compare 2 Chronicles 36:15-21).

When studying the concept of “forever” in context, we see a variety of intended meanings. The word can express a never-ending condition or situation, but it can also refer to a certain limited period of time, based on the life of the parties involved and also dependent on relevant conditions." When the Bible uses the term "forever," does this always mean the same as "everlasting" or "eternally"? | Church of the Eternal God

To the wicked, the burning in the lake of fire will not cease till it has entirely devoured them.

Psalm 37:20 King James Version (KJV)
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

The Bible confirms they will be turned to ashes:
Malachi 4:1,3 King James Version (KJV)
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch...
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

But many who have been told by teachers and ministers that the false teaching that man is immortal and so the dead live forever read the words "that it shall leave them neither root nor branch...for they shall be ashes " and still insist that the wicked are alive and suffering someplace under their feet. Even Christ's words in Matthew 25 are not confusing when we see the obvious meaning:
Matthew 25:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Many are troubled over the expression, "everlasting punishment," but the punishment Christ is talking about is that it will last eternally. Jesus was simply saying that the death would be everlasting.

 

[Lamb]

The wicked perish, they are no more for eternity or basically the ceaseless ages.
Here is a good explanation on this issue..
"In Biblical usage of the word “forever,” we see that the context and application MAY be for something that will come to an end. God said of the Temple that Solomon built, “‘For now I have chosen and sanctified this house, that My name may be there forever; and My eyes and My heart will be there perpetually'” (2 Chronicles 7:16). However, because of the sins of Israel and then Judah, God caused this Temple to be destroyed! (Compare 2 Chronicles 36:15-21).

When studying the concept of “forever” in context, we see a variety of intended meanings. The word can express a never-ending condition or situation, but it can also refer to a certain limited period of time, based on the life of the parties involved and also dependent on relevant conditions." When the Bible uses the term "forever," does this always mean the same as "everlasting" or "eternally"? | Church of the Eternal God

To the wicked, the burning in the lake of fire will not cease till it has entirely devoured them.

Psalm 37:20 King James Version (KJV)
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

The Bible confirms they will be turned to ashes:
Malachi 4:1,3 King James Version (KJV)
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch...
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

But many who have been told by teachers and ministers that the false teaching that man is immortal and so the dead live forever read the words "that it shall leave them neither root nor branch...for they shall be ashes " and still insist that the wicked are alive and suffering someplace under their feet. Even Christ's words in Matthew 25 are not confusing when we see the obvious meaning:
Matthew 25:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Many are troubled over the expression, "everlasting punishment," but the punishment Christ is talking about is that it will last eternally. Jesus was simply saying that the death would be everlasting.

You still haven't addressed the verse I brought up. You're showing only one side when the verse uses the term for both sides, eternal punishment and eternal life. So please, address eternal life then? Do you think it's not eternal?

 

[hobie]

You still haven't addressed the verse I brought up. You're showing only one side when the verse uses the term for both sides, eternal punishment and eternal life. So please, address eternal life then? Do you think it's not eternal?

You got to understand that the wicked receive a punishment, they get the wages of sin and are destroyed and perish for the ceaseless age of time, conversely the saints are taken to heaven get a reward of life that lasts for the ceaseless age of time. Its that simple...

 

[Lamb]

You got to understand that the wicked receive a punishment, they get the wages of sin and are destroyed and perish for the ceaseless age of time, conversely the saints are taken to heaven get a reward of life that lasts for the ceaseless age of time. Its that simple...

So you are insisting that the same word used within the same sentence carries two entirely different meanings? Eternal punishment is what Jesus said. He didn't say what you are implying at all.

 

[hobie]

So you are insisting that the same word used within the same sentence carries two entirely different meanings? Eternal punishment is what Jesus said. He didn't say what you are implying at all.

You have to look at the context and combine with the other text on the matter, and its clear the wicked are consumed and perish. Their punishment is their destruction, they will never be brought back as it is a separation that is complete and final. They do not get to eternal life, their lives are extinguished for eternity. Sin is no more and Christ has redeemed the saints from its wages so no more death.

 

[Lamb]

You have to look at the context and combine with the other text on the matter, and its clear the wicked are consumed and perish. Their punishment is their destruction, they will never be brought back as it is a separation that is complete and final. They do not get to eternal life, their lives are extinguished for eternity. Sin is no more and Christ has redeemed the saints from its wages so no more death.

Still, I'm asking you if the same word within the same sentence means two different things which is what you are claiming. If it were the case then a different word would have been used by Jesus and not the same one.

 

[hobie]

The word is used to show they meet eternal death, which is they ceased to exist forever, which is consistent with the saints given life in Gods kingdom forever.

The wicked end up in the lake of fire and receive the second death, which separates them from God and lasts for eternity.

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 14:9-11
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[Lamb]

Jesus said in Matthew 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Jesus says "eternal punishment". You keep trying to change what He says.

 

[hobie]

Jesus said in Matthew 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Jesus says "eternal punishment". You keep trying to change what He says.

No, the second death is for eternity, they perish.

 

[Lamb]

No, the second death is for eternity, they perish.

If they perish then according to you those who are believers will not have life for eternity.

If Jesus wanted to have a different meaning there would have been a different word used in the first portion of His statement. You're trying to change what Jesus means to fit your theology.

 

[hobie]

If they perish then according to you those who are believers will not have life for eternity.

If Jesus wanted to have a different meaning there would have been a different word used in the first portion of His statement. You're trying to change what Jesus means to fit your theology.

Only the wicked perish as we all well know, and Christ makes clear those who believe in Him will not perish, so its very clear what is meant.

John 10:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Take a look at more verses and you find that the wicked will be burned up not burning forever in an eternal fire:
Mat 13:41, The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42, And shall cast them into a furnace of fire (as punishment): there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 13:49, So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 13:50, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire (as punishment): there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The punishment is everlasting destruction, they are separated from God for eternity by this fire and never brought back:
2 Thessalonians 1:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

You have to understand that it is the destruction, not the process that is forever. God could bring you back but this will be a separation for the ceaseless ages of time. Sin will be no more and neither will the wicked, and Satan will also meet his end..

Ezekiel 28:13-19 King James Version (KJV)
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.