Absent fruits signal the absence of faith

[Lamb]

Absent fruits signal the absence of faith.

We've all heard it countless times on CH that fruits are a sign of faith. And that's true! But every time a thread on Justification or forgiveness comes up someone is bound to say "...but what about good works and fruit?

Good works and bearing fruit comes from the Gospel and that is the good news that Jesus died for the forgiveness of your sins. It's the Holy Spirit who takes that person who is justified in Christ (see this thread https://christianityhaven.com/showthread.php?8143-Faith-in-self-does-not-justify) and sanctifies him, guiding him to do the works and bear fruits He has planned.

We know the Law is mirror, curb and guide and although the Law tells us what to do and not do it cannot give life.

Navel gazing to see if we're doing enough good works is not the answer. For one, your good works won't justify you...Jesus did that. Your good works are necessary because God wants you to do them. They will be judged on Judgment Day but remember, Jesus justified you so fear not, you have eternal life not based on your works but on Jesus.

Since the Law cannot give you life it must be the Gospel. When a Pastor laments about his flock and wonders if they're doing the good works that the Holy Spirit wants them to do, he should be intent on knowing that even though the Law should still be preached, the Gospel is what will actually continue to give them life and change their inner nature.

Absent fruit? Absent faith. More faith...you're bound do bear more fruit because a bird flies, a fish swims and a believer bears fruit.

 

[psalms 91]

More faith comes by reading the Word, experiencing life and learning, many ways. God gives us a measure of faith and then expects us to grow it, The Word is pretty clear on this

 

[Particular]

It seems there is one fruit, the fruit of the Spirit. There are many "flavors" to this fruit, Paul describes.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
~ Galatians 5:22-23

God may gift us the gift of faith when he graciously saves us. But sin may empty the believer of the fruit of the Spirit.
Paul goes on to show us what life looks like when the fruit of the Spirit is evidenced.

And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
~ Galatians 5:24-26

 

[MOJS4545]

faith in God makes a person want to act for God and demonstrate their love for God. So faith is demonstrated through actions.

 

[Lamb]

My point in the OP was that we know that our faith will produce good fruit and yet a lot of people might say in order to produce more fruit we need to hear more law (do this and don't do that). My point though was that since it's because of faith that we produce that don't need to hear more law but more gospel (Jesus died for the forgiveness of your sins) since that's what faith trusts in.

 

[pinacled]

My point in the OP was that we know that our faith will produce good fruit and yet a lot of people might say in order to produce more fruit we need to hear more law (do this and don't do that). My point though was that since it's because of faith that we produce that don't need to hear more law but more gospel (Jesus died for the forgiveness of your sins) since that's what faith trusts in.

Have you ever considered The Torah(law) to be a pruning instrument of The Lords hand in order' of increasing Fruits of the Tree that is life?

Though a tree is known by its timber and fruits. Rarely it is known by its petals.

Blessings Always

 

[pinacled]

More faith comes by reading the Word, experiencing life and learning, many ways. God gives us a measure of faith and then expects us to grow it, The Word is pretty clear on this

Amen,

With the armored helmet of Salvation the faithful are renewed in their mind with a washing of The Word.

Blessed be The Holy One

 

[Lamb]

Have you ever considered The Torah(law) to be a pruning instrument of The Lords hand in order' of increasing Fruits of the Tree that is life?

Though a tree is known by its timber and fruits. Rarely it is known by its petals.

Blessings Always

The Law kills. 2 Corinthians 3:6 The Gospel gives life. 2 Corinthians 5:17. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come

 

[pinacled]

The Law kills. 2 Corinthians 3:6 The Gospel gives life. 2 Corinthians 5:17. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come

While you have cited a letter written to a certain congregation. I'm not sure what you are communicating.
I recall the letter is what kills.
The Torah( law) is said to be holy by ole sh'aul.
And that all scripture is for correction and training in righteousness.
John 15:2
Something to consider about pruning is our Lord Yeshua own Word concerning trees and limbs that do not bare fruit.
I was thinking pruning(removal)would concern only limbs that lacked in fruit while the whole tree is left untouched or manacured where fruits are found.

Blessings Always

 

[Lamb]

While you have cited a letter written to a certain congregation. I'm not sure what you are communicating.
I recall the letter is what kills.
The Torah( law) is said to be holy by ole sh'aul.
And that all scripture is for correction and training in righteousness.
John 15:2
Something to consider about pruning is our Lord Yeshua own Word concerning trees and limbs that do not bare fruit.
I was thinking pruning(removal)would concern only limbs that lacked in fruit while the whole tree is left untouched or manacured where fruits are found.

Blessings Always

The Law is holy and good and is used as a curb, guide and mirror. It won't save you though because you can't be perfectly obedient as God requires for holiness which is why when Jesus died on the cross we have been reconciled to Him and declared righteous. It's that Gospel that brings life. The Law is like a hammer that comes down hard on us to show us our sin. The Gospel gives us life and causes us to bear fruit because a new creation will grow according to the will of God.

 

[pinacled]

The Law is holy and good and is used as a curb, guide and mirror. It won't save you though because you can't be perfectly obedient as God requires for holiness which is why when Jesus died on the cross we have been reconciled to Him and declared righteous. It's that Gospel that brings life. The Law is like a hammer that comes down hard on us to show us our sin. The Gospel gives us life and causes us to bear fruit because a new creation will grow according to the will of God.

I don't recall the Torah(law) described as a hammer in The Holy scriptures.
Rather I heard David speak in the spirit that The Torah was a lamp to his feet. Which reminds me of the good soil where a fruitful tree is nourished in promises.

Blessings Always

 

[Lamb]

I don't recall the Torah(law) described as a hammer in The Holy scriptures.
Rather I heard David speak in the spirit that The Torah was a lamp to his feet. Which reminds me of the good soil where a fruitful tree is nourished in promises.

Blessings Always

Jeremiah 23:29 Is not My word like fire, declares the LORD, and like a hammer that smashes a rock?

 

[pinacled]

Brothers, my heart’s deepest desire and my prayer to God for Isra’el is for their salvation; 2 for I can testify to their zeal for God. But it is not based on correct understanding; 3 for, since they are unaware of God’s way of making people righteous and instead seek to set up their own, they have not submitted themselves to God’s way of making people righteous. 4 For the goal at which the Torah aims is the Messiah, who offers righteousness to everyone who trusts. 5 For Moshe writes about the righteousness grounded in the Torah that the person who does these things will attain life through them.[a] 6 Moreover, the righteousness grounded in trusting says:

“Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend to heaven?’” —

that is, to bring the Messiah down — 7 or,

“‘Who will descend into Sh’ol?’” —

that is, to bring the Messiah up from the dead. 8 What, then, does it say?

“The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart.” —

that is, the word about trust which we proclaim, namely, 9 that if you acknowledge publicly with your mouth that Yeshua is Lord and trust in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be delivered. 10 For with the heart one goes on trusting and thus continues toward righteousness, while with the mouth one keeps on making public acknowledgement and thus continues toward deliverance. 11 For the passage quoted says that everyone who rests his trust on him will not be humiliated. 12 That means that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile — Adonai is the same for everyone, rich toward everyone who calls on him, 13 since everyone who calls on the name of Adonai will be delivered.[d]

14 But how can they call on someone if they haven’t trusted in him? And how can they trust in someone if they haven’t heard about him? And how can they hear about someone if no one is proclaiming him? 15 And how can people proclaim him unless God sends them? —

as the Tanakh puts it,
“How beautiful are the feet of those announcing good news about good things!”[ie]{The Torah as lamp to ones feet}

16 The problem is that they haven’t all paid attention to the Good News and obeyed it. For Yesha‘yahu says,

“Adonai, who has trusted what he has heard from us?”[f]

17 So trust comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through a word proclaimed about the Messiah.

18 “But, I say, isn’t it rather that they didn’t hear?” No, they did hear —

“Their voice has gone out throughout the whole world
and their words to the ends of the earth.”[g]

19 “But, I say, isn’t it rather that Isra’el didn’t understand?”

“I will provoke you to jealousy over a non-nation,
over a nation void of understanding I will make you angry.”[h]

20 Moreover, Yesha‘yahu boldly says,

“I was found by those who were not looking for me,
I became known to those who did not ask for me”;

21 but to Isra’el he says,

“All day long I held out my hands
to a people who kept disobeying and contradicting.”

 

[pinacled]

Brothers, my heart’s deepest desire and my prayer to God for Isra’el is for their salvation; 2 for I can testify to their zeal for God. But it is not based on correct understanding; 3 for, since they are unaware of God’s way of making people righteous and instead seek to set up their own, they have not submitted themselves to God’s way of making people righteous. 4 For the goal at which the Torah aims is the Messiah, who offers righteousness to everyone who trusts. 5 For Moshe writes about the righteousness grounded in the Torah that the person who does these things will attain life through them.[a] 6 Moreover, the righteousness grounded in trusting says:

“Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend to heaven?’” —

that is, to bring the Messiah down — 7 or,

“‘Who will descend into Sh’ol?’” —

that is, to bring the Messiah up from the dead. 8 What, then, does it say?

“The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart.” —

that is, the word about trust which we proclaim, namely, 9 that if you acknowledge publicly with your mouth that Yeshua is Lord and trust in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be delivered. 10 For with the heart one goes on trusting and thus continues toward righteousness, while with the mouth one keeps on making public acknowledgement and thus continues toward deliverance. 11 For the passage quoted says that everyone who rests his trust on him will not be humiliated. 12 That means that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile — Adonai is the same for everyone, rich toward everyone who calls on him, 13 since everyone who calls on the name of Adonai will be delivered.[d]

14 But how can they call on someone if they haven’t trusted in him? And how can they trust in someone if they haven’t heard about him? And how can they hear about someone if no one is proclaiming him? 15 And how can people proclaim him unless God sends them? — as the Tanakh puts it, “How beautiful are the feet of those announcing good news about good things!”[e]

16 The problem is that they haven’t all paid attention to the Good News and obeyed it. For Yesha‘yahu says,

“Adonai, who has trusted what he has heard from us?”[f]

17 So trust comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through a word proclaimed about the Messiah.

18 “But, I say, isn’t it rather that they didn’t hear?” No, they did hear —

“Their voice has gone out throughout the whole world
and their words to the ends of the earth.”[g]

19 “But, I say, isn’t it rather that Isra’el didn’t understand?”

“I will provoke you to jealousy over a non-nation,
over a nation void of understanding I will make you angry.”[h]

20 Moreover, Yesha‘yahu boldly says,

“I was found by those who were not looking for me,
I became known to those who did not ask for me”;

21 but to Isra’el he says,

“All day long I held out my hands
to a people who kept disobeying and contradicting.”

Torah as a lamp to those with ears, eyes, hands, and feet.

Blessed be The Holy One who washes his with The Word.

 

[pinacled]

Jeremiah 23:29 Is not My word like fire, declares the LORD, and like a hammer that smashes a rock?

Shatters hearts of stone with a letter/certificate of divorce.
And whose heart was shattered with a crushing sea after pursuing the children of Yisrayl(Israel.

Hammer is a translation/ transliteration for weight.

Like a millstone hung over those who are cast into the sea for......?
Answer; hardness of heart.
And those who married into Egypt were punished.
Yet the lineage yhdh(Judah) survived just as the Lord promised.
The very same lineage our Lord Yeshua(Jesus) was born of in his mother's line of inheritance.

Blessed be The Holy One

 

[Lamb]

Shatters hearts of stone with a letter/certificate of divorce.
And whose heart was shattered with a crushing sea after pursuing the children of Yisrayl(Israel.

Hammer is a translation/ transliteration for weight.

Like a millstone hung over those who are cast into the sea for......?
Answer; hardness of heart.
And those who married into Egypt were punished.
Yet the lineage yhdh(Judah) survived just as the Lord promised.
The very same lineage our Lord Yeshua(Jesus) was born of in his mother's line of inheritance.

Blessed be The Holy One

The Law won't save us because it puts a burden on us. It's the Gospel, the good news that the Messiah died for the forgiveness of our sins that relieves us of that burden and gives us peace. That's what creates new life in us and we bear fruit.

 

[pinacled]

The Law won't save us because it puts a burden on us. It's the Gospel, the good news that the Messiah died for the forgiveness of our sins that relieves us of that burden and gives us peace. That's what creates new life in us and we bear fruit.

Supposing which burden you carry sis.
Do you carry a burden of the cross of inheritance alongside Yeshua ..

Or do you carry the burden of the Torah(law) of sin and death.

The Torah in spirit speaks volumes when you look with eyes of the heart.
Where ole sh'aul once looked into the mirror on a certain yom(day) and saw darkly.
I saw Light hovering over the deep .

Blessings Always

 

[Lamb]

Supposing which burden you carry sis.
Do you carry a burden of the cross of inheritance alongside Yeshua ..

Or do you carry the burden of the Torah(law) of sin and death.

The Torah in spirit speaks volumes when you look with eyes of the heart.
Where ole sh'aul once looked into the mirror on a certain yom(day) and saw darkly.
I saw Light hovering over the deep .

Blessings Always

The burden of the Law bears down on us daily because we still live in these sinful bodies. If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Thanks be to God we are redeemed by the Christ who died for us.

 

[pinacled]

The burden of the Law bears down on us daily because we still live in these sinful bodies. If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Thanks be to God we are redeemed by the Christ who died for us.

In as much as a son or daughter is sealed. Fruits will be shown in the spirit.

With such a free gift of treasures. Where they store such is important.

Being that the promise of inheritance has been freely offered with Change of priestly order. All sons and daughters are welcome to the Holy place in The Name of The Holy One.

Blessings Always

 

[pinacled]

The burden of the Law bears down on us daily because we still live in these sinful bodies. If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Thanks be to God we are redeemed by the Christ who died for us.

Our flesh no longer bears record.
The spirit of Torah is what does.
Love, Joy and more fulfills the Torah in spirit.