Does Daniel 11 prophesy about events fulfilled in Maccabees?

[NathanH83]

If so, then why are we being discouraged from reading Maccabees?

 

[RichWh1]

If so, then why are we being discouraged from reading Maccabees?

No one is discouraging others from reading the Books of Maccabees. In fact many scholars encourage the reading of them because they are history of the Jews

 

[NathanH83]

No one is discouraging others from reading the Books of Maccabees. In fact many scholars encourage the reading of them because they are history of the Jews

I was raised in a Protestant church, and I was in fact discouraged from reading those books. I’ve been continually discouraged from reading them from virtually everyone at my church, and I’ve seen plenty of videos of pastors discouraging people from reading them.

Sorry, but you can’t lie to me. I know what’s going on.

 

[RichWh1]

I was raised in a Protestant church, and I was in fact discouraged from reading those books. I’ve been continually discouraged from reading them from virtually everyone at my church, and I’ve seen plenty of videos of pastors discouraging people from reading them.

Sorry, but you can’t lie to me. I know what’s going on.

At college I studied the New Testament and prefaced to the gospels we did a history of pre New Testament and that dealt with the Maccabees ( called the inter testamental period.
I don’t remember being prevented from reading the history of the inter-testamental period.

 

[NathanH83]

At college I studied the New Testament and prefaced to the gospels we did a history of pre New Testament and that dealt with the Maccabees ( called the inter testamental period.
I don’t remember being prevented from reading the history of the inter-testamental period.

I said discouraged, not prevented.
There’s a general discouragement from most Christians in church that those books are historically inaccurate, contain heresies, were added to the Bible by Catholics, and don’t belong. This general attitude discourages most kids in church from reading them.

 

[Andrew]

I said discouraged, not prevented.
There’s a general discouragement from most Christians in church that those books are historically inaccurate, contain heresies, were added to the Bible by Catholics, and don’t belong. This general attitude discourages most kids in church from reading them.

Yup, these "uninspired" but "encouraged" books sure do speak a lot about God and his guidance, if it wasn't God then who was it? A false god? Why would it be encouraged then if they aren't really speaking to the Lord God? hmmmmm

 

[NewCreation435]

I was raised in a Protestant church, and I was in fact discouraged from reading those books. I’ve been continually discouraged from reading them from virtually everyone at my church, and I’ve seen plenty of videos of pastors discouraging people from reading them.

Sorry, but you can’t lie to me. I know what’s going on.

because the Protestant church doesn't consider them scripture

 

[Andrew]

because the Protestant church doesn't consider them scripture

So you agree with him that the Protestant church discourages Maccabees and other "Apocryoha" because they are considered uninspired scripture?
Martin Luther (a very openly opinionated man) says in his summery of 1rst and 2nd Maccabees

 

[NathanH83]

So you agree with him that the Protestant church discourages Maccabees and other "Apocryoha" because they are considered uninspired scripture?
Martin Luther (a very openly opinionated man) says in his summery of 1rst and 2cnd Maccabees

I guess some people today don’t want us to understand the prophecies of Daniel 11. But Martin Luther did.

Now, who do you think doesn’t want us to understand Biblical prophecy? God, or the Devil?

So, are the people telling us not to read these books being inspired by God, or by Satan?

 

[Andrew]

I guess some people today don’t want us to understand the prophecies of Daniel 11. But Martin Luther did.

Now, who do you think doesn’t want us to understand Biblical prophecy? God, or the Devil?

So, are the people telling us not to read these books being inspired by God, or by Satan?

Yup, he clearly understood the prophesy

 

[Andrew]

So, are the people telling us not to read these books being inspired by God, or by Satan?

No one here is inspired to deceive I guarantee you that my friend, the pickle we are in is that in our era of abundant information we can connect dots that had remained dormant, actually lost, for some time.
For many here I believe they truly won't accept these books as sacred scripture (which is what the word "Apocrypha" ironically means "Sacred") -because the history of the reformation period of time is so important and controversial that they miss the fact that the first loved of Christ, our early brothers and sisters and our Church Fathers had absolutely NOTHING to do with false teachings entering into the church, they were persecuted and hung on to every word of scripture centuries before Constantine put Christianity under Roman Rule, these men were martyred for Christ's Name sake and yet we have documents of them as well as Josephus and in agreement even to the NT that the Septuagint was a copy of the sacred Holy hebrew text successfully translated to Greek just in the divine knick of time for gentiles to have them available for the time of Christ to testify against the Christ rejecting Jews who would have done the gentile Christians no favors by handing over their Holy books.. If it weren't for the Septuagint greek translation we would have had no OT, at least not for another 1000 years when the Masoretic was canon :/

 

[NewCreation435]

So you agree with him that the Protestant church discourages Maccabees and other "Apocryoha" because they are considered uninspired scripture?
Martin Luther (a very openly opinionated man) says in his summery of 1rst and 2nd Maccabees

Yes, I am agreeing that it is discouraged because it was not included in the canon of scripture and is considered uninspired. if you want to read it though please go ahead

 

[NathanH83]

Yes, I am agreeing that it is discouraged because it was not included in the canon of scripture and is considered uninspired. if you want to read it though please go ahead

Why would you discourage someone from reading the history of the Maccabees? You can’t understand the prophecies of Daniel 8 and 11 without it. You also can’t understand what Paul was talking about in Hebrews 11:35 without it. So why would you discourage people from being able to understand the Bible?

 

[Josiah]

So interesting when people who are not Lutherans quote him as the infallible, authoritative one.....

When quoting Luther, it's always good to note not only where but when he said that - and in what context. Luther was a Catholic for good portion of his life, and there were many years of transition.

Of course, I've quoted Luther (with a date) when he very clearly states that the unique set of Deutero/Apocrypha books typically included in the lectionary and Catholic Bibles in GERMANY during his years as a Catholic teacher which Luther included with the Scriptures in his German tome, he clearly stated "these are not canonical." He encourages people to read "them" he says they are "useful" and of course "they" are IN his German Bible (one MORE OT book than modern Catholic Bibles) but he makes it clear that in his personal opinion, they are not canonical; good to include with the Scriptures but not canonical. My study Bible has a LOT of stuff in it included with the Scriptures that not one person on the planet considers canonical (Maps, etc.)

I reject the premise that if something is good to read, ERGO it must be the inerrant, divinely and verbatlly inspired words of God and thus canonical for Chrsitian teaching/doctrine. I can think of a few hundred books I'd recommend every Christian read but I wouldn't regard a single word in any of them to be the inscripturated words of God OR canonical.

Is the Prophecy of Daniel 11 fulfilled in some book? No. Is it POSSIBLE that something mentioned in a book is the fulfillment of such? Sure, it's POSSIBLE. Even if that book were NOT at all Scripture or canonical. Why..... how many books talk about
Christmas (many canonical Books prophecy that event) but does that make every book and song and poem about Christmas ERGO canonical inspired words of God of EXACTLY the same nature and use as say the Letter to the Romans in our NT?