JOHN 20:23 IS NOT FOR THE CHURCH TODAY

[psalms 91]

Exactly and because of this we are all commanded to preach the gospel and spread the Word. It is for us as we are grafted in and therefore are children of Abraham and all the promises are for us if we fulfill what God wants

 

[Lamb]

The kingdom was being offered but was postponed by Israel rejecting Christ......postponed to be fulfilled in the future

Jesus didn't lie when He said His Kingdom was not here on earth. The New Jerulsalem on the new earth is what God has planned for us but now you have to see that God gave directions to build His Church (believers) and by doing that He started with the disciples. They were make more disciples by baptizing and teaching. Those goals are not just for the 11 but to be continued until Judgment day. So you err when you think that the gospel reading scriptures are only for the disciples and not relevant to God's believers.

 

[Michael]

The doctrine for the church today is found in the epistles of Paul.

The "great commission " was for Israel.

We are to preach the gospel revealed to Paul (1 Corinthians 15:3-4).

Our "commission" is found in 2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Actually, Paul's "Gospel" is exactly the same as Jesus taught.

What you're attempting to present seems an offshoot of the horrible "replacement theology" doctrine that teaches the "Church" replaced "Israel", of that there is an "earthly kingdom" for the Jews and a "heavenly kingdom" for Gentile "believers." Such concepts are completely foreign to the entire Bible, both New & Old Testaments.

There is only One Gospel; One Kingdom; one Eternal plan & purpose of God.

Amen.

 

[Doug]

Actually, Paul's "Gospel" is exactly the same as Jesus taught.

What you're attempting to present seems an offshoot of the horrible "replacement theology" doctrine that teaches the "Church" replaced "Israel", of that there is an "earthly kingdom" for the Jews and a "heavenly kingdom" for Gentile "believers." Such concepts are completely foreign to the entire Bible, both New & Old Testaments.

There is only One Gospel; One Kingdom; one Eternal plan & purpose of God.

Amen.

I am adamantly not presenting replacement theology

Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom and observing the law....Paul preached the gospel of grace

 

[Michael]

I am adamantly not presenting replacement theology

Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom and observing the law....Paul preached the gospel of grace

There is only one Gospel. Paul taught only what Jesus taught. Either we follow Christ or not. There is only One Way to the Father.

"I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed." - Gal 1:6-9

Paul preached the exact same gospel as did Jesus. It almost sounds as if you are saying the Paul's message supersedes what Jesus taught. That, my friend, is dangerous ground indeed.

 

[hedrick]

There's a parallel in Luke 24:36ff. I think 47 is for the whole church, not just the disciples.

In john it's less clear, but I'd assume the same.

What does it mean, and how close is it to something Jesus said?

The obvious meaning is church discipline. If it were Matthew, I'd say that's obviously the meaning. But that's not so emphasized in John. John sees whether or not we have faith as placing us as Christ's follower or condemning us. This passage connects it with the Holy Spirit. It's at least possible that through the Gospel and baptism, the Church brings the Holy Spirit to people. If they believe, then their sins are forgiven. If not, they are retained. This has the advantage of being essentially the same as the charge in Luke 24:47.

I'm sure people are aware that commentators vary on the meaning. There's some tradition with connecting it to admission to baptism, though the commentators I consulted don't think that's what John meant (nor do I). Some also connect it with Church discipline, but not everyone. At a minimum it means that the Church brings Christ to people, and if they have faith, their sins are forgiven.

 

[Doug]

There's a parallel in Luke 24:36ff. I think 47 is for the whole church, not just the disciples.

In john it's less clear, but I'd assume the same.

What does it mean, and how close is it to something Jesus said?

The obvious meaning is church discipline. If it were Matthew, I'd say that's obviously the meaning. But that's not so emphasized in John. John sees whether or not we have faith as placing us as Christ's follower or condemning us. This passage connects it with the Holy Spirit. It's at least possible that through the Gospel and baptism, the Church brings the Holy Spirit to people. If they believe, then their sins are forgiven. If not, they are retained. This has the advantage of being essentially the same as the charge in Luke 24:47.

I'm sure people are aware that commentators vary on the meaning. There's some tradition with connecting it to admission to baptism, though the commentators I consulted don't think that's what John meant (nor do I). Some also connect it with Church discipline, but not everyone. At a minimum it means that the Church brings Christ to people, and if they have faith, their sins are forgiven.

In Luke 24:47 Jesus is commanding the disciples to go into the world and preach repentance and remission of sins in the name of Jesus to the nations during the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth.

I am not sure why you cited Luke 24:36

 

[hedrick]

In Luke 24:47 Jesus is commanding the disciples to go into the world and preach repentance and remission of sins in the name of Jesus to the nations during the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth.

I am not sure why you cited Luke 24:36

The scene with 24:47 in it begins in 36. I generally recommend looking at the whole context, and not isolated verses.