Mass Shootings

[JRT]

Mass shootings, defined as 3 or more, in 2019 have been 248, with 246 deaths, and 979 wounded as of August 4, 2019. How much have "thoughts and prayers" helped at this point? Isn't it time that we take some positive action to prevent this slaughter? Or is it that we have become so desensitized that we just shrug and carry on? If we don't do something aren't we in some way complicit?

 

[Lamb]

Mass shootings, defined as 3 or more, in 2019 have been 248, with 246 deaths, and 979 wounded as of August 4, 2019. How much have "thoughts and prayers" helped at this point? Isn't it time that we take some positive action to prevent this slaughter? Or is it that we have become so desensitized that we just shrug and carry on? If we don't do something aren't we in some way complicit?

As Christians we are told to Pray without ceasing. Thanks be to God that it wasn't any worse and may He continue to heal those who need healing according to His good will.

 

[JRT]

There is an ancient proverb ---- pray to God but row away from the rocks. Is prayer enough if we do not take action? We are God's hands in this world.

 

[zecryphon_nomdiv]

There is an ancient proverb ---- pray to God but row away from the rocks. Is prayer enough if we do not take action? We are God's hands in this world.

I would like to see establishments that prevent people who are qualified to carry concealed weapons, either lift the restrictions on weapons in their establishments or be held legally responsible when they fail to keep their customers or patrons safe by failing to have any kind of security.

 

[NewCreation435]

these posts were moved from prayer and devotional area for discussion about recent mass shootings.

What do you think should be done about all the mass shootings in the U.S.?

 

[Michael]

Mass shootings, defined as 3 or more, in 2019 have been 248, with 246 deaths, and 979 wounded as of August 4, 2019. How much have "thoughts and prayers" helped at this point? Isn't it time that we take some positive action to prevent this slaughter? Or is it that we have become so desensitized that we just shrug and carry on? If we don't do something aren't we in some way complicit?

Indeed, I believe the Church has a great role to play in this. If we would see shootings decrease, as well as the many other violent crimes that are increasing in our nation, God's people must repent. There is a connection that most don't see, but screams at us from God's Word.
Not when the heathen repents, or when the sinner comes to Christ, will God touch our land and drive out sin, but rather, as God Himself declares -

"If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land." - 2Chron 7:14

If we would believe what the Lord God has said, then it really is that simple. Unless those who "claim the Name of Christ depart from iniquity" God will keep His distance from our land and evil will have its way.

After the horrific event as Sandy Hook a few years ago, I sought the face of God, and He spoke clearly to me. Sadly, I've had to share this many times since...

When Lord? https://to-him-who-overcomes.com/files/documents/WHEN-LORD-(mdb).pdf

May we heed the Word of the Lord and allow Him to do His great work of deliverance upon our nation. Before it is too late.

 

[Andrew]

Indeed, I believe the Church has a great role to play in this. If we would see shootings decrease, as well as the many other violent crimes that are increasing in our nation, God's people must repent. There is a connection that most don't see, but screams at us from God's Word.
Not when the heathen repents, or when the sinner comes to Christ, will God touch our land and drive out sin, but rather, as God Himself declares -

"If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land." - 2Chron 7:14

If we would believe what the Lord God has said, then it really is that simple. Unless those who "claim the Name of Christ depart from iniquity" God will keep His distance from our land and evil will have its way.

After the horrific event as Sandy Hook a few years ago, I sought the face of God, and He spoke clearly to me. Sadly, I've had to share this many times since...

When Lord? https://to-him-who-overcomes.com/files/documents/WHEN-LORD-(mdb).pdf

May we heed the Word of the Lord and allow Him to do His great work of deliverance upon our nation. Before it is too late.

The Church has nothing to do with these killings, there is absolutely nothing we can do but pray, even changes to laws aren't going to cause the killers to obey them. Sadly gun laws have no effect on the black market, I believe that walking into a gun show and leaving armed shouldn't be allowed, but it is. It's time we face the music because persecution is expected to come and at the rate of degeneracy in America and the growing anti-Christian attacks from Hollywood and media we should expect persecution just over the horizon.. In other words it's in Gods hands and we are not to lift a finger in defense, this is what being a Christian is all about.

 

[tango]

Mass shootings, defined as 3 or more, in 2019 have been 248, with 246 deaths, and 979 wounded as of August 4, 2019. How much have "thoughts and prayers" helped at this point? Isn't it time that we take some positive action to prevent this slaughter? Or is it that we have become so desensitized that we just shrug and carry on? If we don't do something aren't we in some way complicit?

We aren't desensitised at all - if we were these things wouldn't make the news. What is happening is that we are desensitised to untold thousands of deaths but anything involving a gun is hyped as if there were no other crimes.

Look at gang violence in inner cities (with much stricter gun laws). Young black men kill each other all the time and nobody bats an eyelid, but as soon as a white guy kills a handful of young black men the howling about racist violence begins. Thousands of people die every year on our roads and unless the accident is truly horrific it's just accepted as one of those things. On the day that three people were killed by an idiot with a gun in an event that dominated the news, many times that were killed in road accidents in events that maybe got a mention in the local press.

According to the National Safety Council there were approximately 40,000 road deaths during 2018. That's an average of more than 100 people killed, every single day, on the roads. And yet three people killed by a guy with a gun gets all the ink in the media. The time period from January 1 to August 4 is a little over 200 days, during which you claim we are desensitised to the deaths of 246 people. What about the 20,000+ people killed on the roads during the same time? Isn't it time that we take some positive action to prevent this slaughter? If we don't do something aren't we in some way complicit?

 

[NewCreation435]

The Church has nothing to do with these killings, there is absolutely nothing we can do but pray, even changes to laws aren't going to cause the killers to obey them. Sadly gun laws have no effect on the black market, I believe that walking into a gun show and leaving armed shouldn't be allowed, but it is. It's time we face the music because persecution is expected to come and at the rate of degeneracy in America and the growing anti-Christian attacks from Hollywood and media we should expect persecution just over the horizon.. In other words it's in Gods hands and we are not to lift a finger in defense, this is what being a Christian is all about.

I think maybe you missed his point. When I think of what Michael said I think about Israel and how when it was obedient and walking with God there was prosperity. They had peace on every side. They didn't have drought. They had prosperous crops and a lack of disease. But, when they got their eyes off of God then trouble started and groups like Babylon and Assyria and even Egypt came into play, droughts happened. It was something God used to try and get the people's attention. It was a warning sign along with the prophets who were sent to warn them to repent. But, sadly Israel didn't turn away from their sin and went into captivity.
I think in some respects that God is calling the church to repentance and to prayer. But, most Christians don't seem to see it. They think everything is fine even with all the trillions of dollars that the US owes other countries as it goes further and further into debt, as our country slips into materialism and all sorts of sin.

 

[tango]

I think maybe you missed his point. When I think of what Michael said I think about Israel and how when it was obedient and walking with God there was prosperity. They had peace on every side. They didn't have drought. They had prosperous crops and a lack of disease. But, when they got their eyes off of God then trouble started and groups like Babylon and Assyria and even Egypt came into play, droughts happened. It was something God used to try and get the people's attention. It was a warning sign along with the prophets who were sent to warn them to repent. But, sadly Israel didn't turn away from their sin and went into captivity.
I think in some respects that God is calling the church to repentance and to prayer. But, most Christians don't seem to see it. They think everything is fine even with all the trillions of dollars that the US owes other countries as it goes further and further into debt, as our country slips into materialism and all sorts of sin.

I won't dispute that there are issues with the church although to argue that people think everything is fine even with the trillions of dollars in debt doesn't really work. Not only are many people very much not OK with the vast and rapidly growing debt, it's not as if there's much that the people on the ground can actually do about it. Most politicians who have any real chance of getting elected, regardless of party affiliation, seem OK with huge deficits.

Even though there is an ongoing need for Christians to repent the comparison of ancient Israel to the modern day USA isn't necessarily helpful. The nation of Israel were God's chosen people, trying to make the same claim about the US today falls short at the assumed comparison.

 

[NewCreation435]

I won't dispute that there are issues with the church although to argue that people think everything is fine even with the trillions of dollars in debt doesn't really work. Not only are many people very much not OK with the vast and rapidly growing debt, it's not as if there's much that the people on the ground can actually do about it. Most politicians who have any real chance of getting elected, regardless of party affiliation, seem OK with huge deficits.

Even though there is an ongoing need for Christians to repent the comparison of ancient Israel to the modern day USA isn't necessarily helpful. The nation of Israel were God's chosen people, trying to make the same claim about the US today falls short at the assumed comparison.

Since God doesn't change, even though our circumstances have, I am assuming he does very much the same things that he did before. Love warns. I think it should be an immediate and necessary response if Jesus is truly the Lord of your life that when trouble comes you look up. You ask God important questions such as "what are you trying to teach us through this?" Is God trying to get the churches attention? I would suggest that should be our response both when personal trials come and as a nation. You have to ask yourself why is this going on now when I was a kid you never heard about things like this happening in schools

 

[Josiah]

Mass shootings, defined as 3 or more, in 2019 have been 248, with 246 deaths, and 979 wounded as of August 4, 2019. How much have "thoughts and prayers" helped at this point? Isn't it time that we take some positive action to prevent this slaughter? Or is it that we have become so desensitized that we just shrug and carry on? If we don't do something aren't we in some way complicit?

Yes!

We need to do 2 things....

1. Embrace the sanctity of LIFE. As long as we demand that folks have the RIGHT to kill innocent, defenseless, non-threatening people because we want to, as long as our culture holds that there is no right to life, no ultimate value or sanctity to life, then we will find people who hold that life if not precious, not to be valued, and that innocent, defenselless, non-threatening people can be eliminated if we feel like it. We will find people that agree with the value our culture holds. WE need to value life as a society, as a country, before we can expect others to.

2. Get a handle on mental illness and drug abuse.



.

 

[tango]

Since God doesn't change, even though our circumstances have, I am assuming he does very much the same things that he did before. Love warns. I think it should be an immediate and necessary response if Jesus is truly the Lord of your life that when trouble comes you look up. You ask God important questions such as "what are you trying to teach us through this?" Is God trying to get the churches attention? I would suggest that should be our response both when personal trials come and as a nation. You have to ask yourself why is this going on now when I was a kid you never heard about things like this happening in schools

Sure, God will continue to warn us. The trouble with trying to map ancient Israel onto modern day America is that the Israelites were God's chosen people and the same can't be said for modern Americans. As I'm sure you know the US comprises people from all faiths and none, so to argue the situation is as simplistic as "the church needs to repent" misses the mark. That's not to say the church doesn't need to repent - God's people do need to live to a Godly standard and it's worryingly easy for inappropriate compromise to creep in. That said, although the US has shootings in a way that other nations don't it's not as if the US is alone in having problems with rising crime in general. In the UK handguns are illegal and long guns are very heavily restricted but that doesn't stop crime - instead gangs use knives and baseball bats and anything else they can turn into a weapon.

Scripture gives us all sorts of warnings about what's coming, so perhaps we should be less surprised when the things Scripture said would happen start to happen.

 

[tango]

Yes!

We need to do 2 things....

1. Embrace the sanctity of LIFE. As long as we demand that folks have the RIGHT to kill innocent, defenseless, non-threatening people because we want to, as long as our culture holds that there is no right to life, no ultimate value or sanctity to life, then we will find people who hold that life if not precious, not to be valued, and that innocent, defenselless, non-threatening people can be eliminated if we feel like it. We will find people that agree with the value our culture holds. WE need to value life as a society, as a country, before we can expect others to.

2. Get a handle on mental illness and drug abuse.



.

Indeed. It took seven months for 246 people to die in "mass shootings", defining the term as three or more people killed in one incident. According to the American Life League 120 abortions are carried out every hour in the US (this includes only surgical/medical abortions, not miscarrriages or the use of abortifacient drugs). That means 240 unborn children were terminated in the space of barely two hours. And yet apparently we are somehow desensitized to gun violence.

It truly is remarkable how anything relating to guns gets people howling. If someone gets knifed there's no call to ban knives, no call for a national knife registry. When someone falls asleep at the wheel and causes fatalities or horrific injuries on the road it's accepted as just one of those things. People not paying attention because they were texting or fiddling with their stereo cause crashes and it's accepted as just part of life. But as soon as a gun is involved everything changes and sweeping legislation is required.

Frankly it would make far more sense to introduce a driving test that confirms people actually know how to drive. A test in which you drive around a course of cones at walking pace, followed by a short stint of driving around some quiet local roads with a speed limit no higher than 35mph, doesn't actually prove much of anything. The idea you can do something as simple as this and then be considered competent to merge into heavy traffic in the rain at 70mph is far more absurd than the idea you can go to the local gun shop and walk out with a firearm within an hour.

 

[JRT]

There is a real difference between cars and guns. Cars are designed to facilitate the safe transportation of human beings. Guns are designed to kill and a great many of them are specifically designed to kill human beings.

 

[tango]

There is a real difference between cars and guns. Cars are designed to facilitate the safe transportation of human beings. Guns are designed to kill and a great many of them are specifically designed to kill human beings.

Design is irrelevant. A baseball bat is designed to hit a baseball. Barbed wire is designed to keep cattle in a field. Neither of those observations changes the danger posed by someone wielding a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire. Design is little more than a strawman argument to justify wailing about one problem while ignoring a much bigger problem. But, you know, if nobody cares about 40,000+ dead every year on the roads maybe we could have less wailing about a small fraction of the death toll thanks to "mass shootings".

The simple fact is that guns trigger such irrational responses and some of the lamest attempts to appeal to emotion over reason I've seen in a long time. In this thread we're discussing whether we are desensitised to gun violence, when you can barely turn on the news without seeing some talking head or other wailing about it. Yet the deaths from "mass shootings" reached 246 in eight months, according to your posted statistics, and every which way we turn there's more virtue signalling relating to guns. The same number of people die on the roads in less than two days and the typical response from the anti-gun brigade is "ah yes, but cars are designed for transport so it's OK". Apparently 30 people dead in a month due to guns is terrible and Something Must Be Done, but 100+ dead in a day on the road is just one of those things because, you know, there's a cost to everyone in saving 100+ lives a day. 100+ abortions performed in an hour apparently also isn't even worth a mention because apparently it's more important to rein in those nasty guns.

The key thing I've noticed is that events that draw a lot of coverage are the ones people focus on. I was talking to a lady yesterday who has never flown and is afraid to fly because of terrorism. When a plane goes down it's all over the news, and with good reason. But if you look at the number of Americans killed by terrorism and compare it to the number of Americans killed by peanut allergies the picture changes a lot. Likewise a child who is killed in an accident is more likely to be poisoned than shot and far more likely to be burned than shot, and yet we hear talk of federal requirements for firearm storage (for the children, innit) and nothing about poison storage. It's just a means of pitting those who don't own guns against those who do.

Another example is that rifles are used in a tiny proportion of firearm homicides, and in this context "rifles" means any rifle, not just the big scary-looking ones people call "assault weapons" and "weapons of war" (hint: semi-automatic rifles aren't weapons of war - for war you want fully automatic versions). Yet any time something big and scary-looking is misused the media is all over it calling for their precious "assault weapons ban" even if they can't define what is and what isn't an "assault weapon". Needless to say when a gun is used by a law-abiding citizen to prevent a crime the media conveniently ignores it, although if a white citizen stops a black would-be criminal you can be pretty sure they'd make a racial issue of it.

 

[Josiah]

Design is irrelevant. A baseball bat is designed to hit a baseball. Barbed wire is designed to keep cattle in a field. Neither of those observations changes the danger posed by someone wielding a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire. Design is little more than a strawman argument to justify wailing about one problem while ignoring a much bigger problem. But, you know, if nobody cares about 40,000+ dead every year on the roads maybe we could have less wailing about a small fraction of the death toll thanks to "mass shootings".

The simple fact is that guns trigger such irrational responses and some of the lamest attempts to appeal to emotion over reason I've seen in a long time. In this thread we're discussing whether we are desensitised to gun violence, when you can barely turn on the news without seeing some talking head or other wailing about it. Yet the deaths from "mass shootings" reached 246 in eight months, according to your posted statistics, and every which way we turn there's more virtue signalling relating to guns. The same number of people die on the roads in less than two days and the typical response from the anti-gun brigade is "ah yes, but cars are designed for transport so it's OK". Apparently 30 people dead in a month due to guns is terrible and Something Must Be Done, but 100+ dead in a day on the road is just one of those things because, you know, there's a cost to everyone in saving 100+ lives a day. 100+ abortions performed in an hour apparently also isn't even worth a mention because apparently it's more important to rein in those nasty guns.

The key thing I've noticed is that events that draw a lot of coverage are the ones people focus on. I was talking to a lady yesterday who has never flown and is afraid to fly because of terrorism. When a plane goes down it's all over the news, and with good reason. But if you look at the number of Americans killed by terrorism and compare it to the number of Americans killed by peanut allergies the picture changes a lot. Likewise a child who is killed in an accident is more likely to be poisoned than shot and far more likely to be burned than shot, and yet we hear talk of federal requirements for firearm storage (for the children, innit) and nothing about poison storage. It's just a means of pitting those who don't own guns against those who do.

Another example is that rifles are used in a tiny proportion of firearm homicides, and in this context "rifles" means any rifle, not just the big scary-looking ones people call "assault weapons" and "weapons of war" (hint: semi-automatic rifles aren't weapons of war - for war you want fully automatic versions). Yet any time something big and scary-looking is misused the media is all over it calling for their precious "assault weapons ban" even if they can't define what is and what isn't an "assault weapon". Needless to say when a gun is used by a law-abiding citizen to prevent a crime the media conveniently ignores it, although if a white citizen stops a black would-be criminal you can be pretty sure they'd make a racial issue of it.

What you said....

At least in the USA, the mass-media controls the discussion. There is MUCH attention to SOME forms of gun violence because that's the issue the press desires to push. No more complicated than that. So those killed in abortion or killed by other means just is off the radar and thus not an issue. Some time back there was a mass murder using a knife, it hardly got mentioned. The press not only controls what are the issues everyone talks about, but also the "answer." It goes on and on about how "everyone is calling for more gun control" but is careful to not draw attention to where such is already in place - Detroit, Chicago, Washington DC - because those are the places where gun violance is highest; and they don't want to discuss where such laws are the least,p places like Wyoming, Montana, Utah because, well.... So they just shout, "EVERYONE wants more gun control" (without the issue of whether such actually DOES anything). The press drives issues. And that press is very liberal.

 

[tango]

What you said....

At least in the USA, the mass-media controls the discussion. There is MUCH attention to SOME forms of gun violence because that's the issue the press desires to push. No more complicated than that. So those killed in abortion or killed by other means just is off the radar and thus not an issue. Some time back there was a mass murder using a knife, it hardly got mentioned. The press not only controls what are the issues everyone talks about, but also the "answer." It goes on and on about how "everyone is calling for more gun control" but is careful to not draw attention to where such is already in place - Detroit, Chicago, Washington DC - because those are the places where gun violance is highest; and they don't want to discuss where such laws are the least,p places like Wyoming, Montana, Utah because, well.... So they just shout, "EVERYONE wants more gun control" (without the issue of whether such actually DOES anything). The press drives issues. And that press is very liberal.

Yes, the howling about "assault rifles" is a classic example. A tiny proportion of homicides are committed with long guns and an even smaller proportion are committed with things like AR-15s, but "assault rifles" are big and black and scary looking and it's easy to argue that "nobody needs one of those" (never mind the fact that very few people need a V8 pickup, or a McMansion or whatever else) and so it's an easy target.

Likewise when children are killed in accidents it is far more likely that they die by being poisoned but there's no call for federal laws on securing poisons. That might be inconvenient for people with poisonous things in their home. But securing firearms is a soft option - it favors non-gun owners because it imposes no cost on them at all. Securing things that might poison someone, even though the "it's for the children innit" howl applies just as much to poisons as firearms, is inconvenient to people who keep poisons on hand. You know, you've got that rat poison around, or something that would kill a child if they drank it, but that's nowhere near as important as telling people who don't have children that they need to keep their guns locked up.

It really is a hugely irrational mess. That's the bottom line.