If paedobaptism were taught...

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zecryphon_nomdiv

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Not ignoring. Just showing you that God chooses who will believe. Baptism doesn't cause anyone to have faith.
We have numerous examples of people coming to faith and being forgiven without any water baptism at all. If water baptism were necessary for forgiveness of sins then all the people before water baptism died in unforgiven sin. You, zec, have a significant dilemma on your hands. It seems you will choose to ignore your theological dilemma rather than meet it head on.
In any case, this thread is about the lack of any evidence in scripture regarding paedobaptism. This thread has run its course and any observer can easily see that the Bible doesn't support infant baptism. I'm fine with the moderators closing this thread.
God says it forgives sins, yet you still deny this, even though God said it and it is recorded in the Bible. You have zero credibility.
 

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God says it forgives sins, yet you still deny this, even though God said it and it is recorded in the Bible. You have zero credibility.
I showed you how you are wrong in regard to your interpretation of Acts 2. Sorry if you can't accept it.
 

zecryphon_nomdiv

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I showed you how you are wrong in regard to your interpretation of Acts 2. Sorry if you can't accept it.
You showed nothing of the sort. Verse 37 does not invalidate verses 38 and 39.
 

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You showed nothing of the sort. Verse 37 does not invalidate verses 38 and 39.
Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation?

No.Let's examine what the Scriptures teach on this issue:

First, it is quite clear from such passages as Acts 15*and Romans 4that no external act is necessary for salvation. Salvation is by divine grace through faith alone (Romans 3:22,*24,*25,*26,*28,*30;*4:5;*Galatians 2:16;*Ephesians 2:8-9;*Philippians 3:9, etc.).

If water baptism were necessary for salvation, we would expect to find it stressed whenever the gospel is presented in Scripture. That is not the case, however. Peter mentioned baptism in his sermon on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:38). However, in his sermon from Solomon's portico in the Temple (Acts 3:12-26), Peter makes no reference to*baptism,*but links forgiveness of sin to repentance (3:19). If baptism is necessary for the forgiveness of sin, why didn't Peter say so in Acts 3?

Paul never made water baptism any part of his gospel presentations. In*1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Paul gives a concise summary of the gospel message he preached. There is no mention of baptism. In*1 Corinthians 1:17, Paul states that "Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel," thus clearly differentiating the gospel from baptism.

Those passages are difficult to understand if water baptism is necessary for salvation. If baptism were part of the gospel itself, necessary for salvation, what good would it have done Paul to preach the gospel, but not baptize? No one would have been saved. Paul clearly understood water baptism to be separate from the gospel, and hence in no way efficacious for salvation.

Perhaps the most convincing refutation of the view that baptism is necessary for salvation*are*those who were saved apart from baptism.*The penitent woman (Luke 7:37-50), the paralytic man (Matthew 9:2), the publican (Luke 18:13-14), and the thief on the cross (Luke 23:39-43)*all experienced forgiveness of sins apart from baptism. For that matter, we have no record of the apostles' being baptized, yet Jesus pronounced them clean of their sins (John 15:3--note that the Word of God, not baptism, is what cleansed them).

The Bible also gives us an example of people who were saved before being baptized. In*Acts 10:44-48, Cornelius and those with him were converted through Peter's message. That they were saved before being baptized is evident from their reception of the Holy Spirit (v. 44) and the gifts of the Spirit (v. 46) before their baptism. Indeed, it is the fact that they had received the Holy Spirit (and hence were saved) that led Peter to baptize them (cf. v. 47).

One of the basic principles of biblical interpretation is the*analogiascriptura, the analogy of Scripture--we must compare Scripture with Scripture in order to understand its full and proper sense. Since the Bible doesn't contradict itself, any interpretation of a specific passage that contradicts the general teaching of the Bible is to be rejected.

Since the general teaching of the Bible is, as we have seen, that baptism and other forms of ritual are not necessary for salvation, no individual passage could teach otherwise. Thus we must look for interpretations of those passages that will be in harmony with the general teaching of Scripture.

With that in mind, let's look briefly at some passages that appear to teach that baptism is required for salvation.

In*Acts 2:38, Peter appears to link forgiveness of sins to baptism. But there are several plausible interpretations of this verse that do not connect forgiveness of sin with baptism. It is possible to translate the Greek preposition*eis--"because of," or "on the basis of," instead of "for." It is used in that sense in*Matthew 3:11;*12:41; and*Luke 11:32.

It is also possible to take the clause "and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ" as parenthetical. Support for that interpretation comes from that fact that "repent" and "your" are plural, while "be baptized" is singular, thus setting it off from the rest of the sentence. If that interpretation is correct, the verse would read "Repent (and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ) for the forgiveness of your sins." Forgiveness is thus connected with repentance, not baptism, in keeping with the consistent teaching of the New Testament (cf.*Luke 24:47;*John 3:18;*Acts 5:31;*10:43;*13:38;*26:18;*Ephesians 5:26).

A third possibility exists, as Wallace explains in*Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics:

It is possible that to a first-century Jewish audience (as well as to Peter), the idea of baptism might incorporate both the spiritual reality and the physical symbol. In other words, when one spoke of baptism, he usually meant both ideas--the reality and the ritual. Peter is shown to make the strong connection between these two in chapters 10 and 11. In 11:15-16 he recounts the conversion of Cornelius and friends, pointing out that at the point of their conversion they were baptized by the Holy Spirit. After he had seen this, he declared, "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit..." (10:47).

The point seems to be that if they have had the internal testimony of the Holy Spirit via spiritual baptism, there ought to be a public testimony/acknowledgment via water baptism as well. This may not only explain*Acts 2:38(viz., that Peter spoke of both reality and picture, though only the reality removes sins), but also why the NT speaks of only baptized believers (as far as we can tell): Water baptism is not a cause of salvation, but a picture; and as such it serves both as a public acknowledgment (by those present) and a public confession (by the convert) that one has been Spirit-baptized.

Mark 16:16, a verse often quoted to prove baptism is necessary for salvation, is actually a proof of the opposite. Notice that the basis for condemnation in that verse is not the failure to be baptized, but only the failure to believe. Baptism is mentioned in the first part of the verse because it was the outward symbol that always accompanied the inward belief.

I might also mention that many textual scholars think it unlikely that*vv. 9-20 are an authentic part of Mark's gospel. We can't discuss here all the textual evidence that has caused many New Testament scholars to reject the passage. But you can find a thorough discussion in Bruce Metzger, et al.,*A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, pp. 122-128, and William Hendriksen,*The Gospel of Mark, pp. 682-687.

Water baptism does not seem to be what Peter has in view in*1 Peter 3:21. The English word "baptism" is simply a transliteration of the Greek word*baptizo, which means "to immerse." Baptizo does not always refer to water baptism in the New Testament (cf.*Matthew 3:11;*Mark 1:8;*7:4;*10:38-39;*Luke 3:16;*11:38;*12:50;*John 1:33;*Acts 1:5;*11:16;*1 Corinthians 10:2;*12:13).

So Peter is not talking about immersion in water, as the phrase "not the removal of dirt from the flesh" indicates. He is referring to immersion in Christ's death and resurrection through "an appeal to God for a good conscience," or repentance. Again, it is not the outward act that saves, but the internal reality of the Spirit's regenerating work (cf.*Titus 3:4-8).

I also do not believe water baptism is in view in Romans 6*or Galatians 3. I see in those passages a reference to the baptism in the Holy Spirit (cf.*1 Corinthians 12:13). For a detailed exposition of those passages, I refer you to my commentaries on Galatians and Romans, or the transcripts my sermons on Galatians 3*and Romans 6.

In*Acts 22:16, Paul recounts the words of Ananias to him following his experience on the Damascus road: "Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name." It is best to connect the phrase "wash away your sins" with "calling on His name." If we connect it with "be baptized," the Greek participle*epikalesamenos*("calling") would have no antecedent. Paul's sins were washed away not by baptism, but by calling on His name.

Water baptism is certainly*important,and required of every believer. However, the New Testament does not teach that baptism is necessary for salvation.

https://www.gty.org/library/questions/QA79/is-baptism-necessary-for-salvation
 

zecryphon_nomdiv

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Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation?

No.Let's examine what the Scriptures teach on this issue:

First, it is quite clear from such passages as Acts 15*and Romans 4that no external act is necessary for salvation. Salvation is by divine grace through faith alone (Romans 3:22,*24,*25,*26,*28,*30;*4:5;*Galatians 2:16;*Ephesians 2:8-9;*Philippians 3:9, etc.).

If water baptism were necessary for salvation, we would expect to find it stressed whenever the gospel is presented in Scripture. That is not the case, however. Peter mentioned baptism in his sermon on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:38). However, in his sermon from Solomon's portico in the Temple (Acts 3:12-26), Peter makes no reference to*baptism,*but links forgiveness of sin to repentance (3:19). If baptism is necessary for the forgiveness of sin, why didn't Peter say so in Acts 3?

Paul never made water baptism any part of his gospel presentations. In*1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Paul gives a concise summary of the gospel message he preached. There is no mention of baptism. In*1 Corinthians 1:17, Paul states that "Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel," thus clearly differentiating the gospel from baptism.

Those passages are difficult to understand if water baptism is necessary for salvation. If baptism were part of the gospel itself, necessary for salvation, what good would it have done Paul to preach the gospel, but not baptize? No one would have been saved. Paul clearly understood water baptism to be separate from the gospel, and hence in no way efficacious for salvation.

Perhaps the most convincing refutation of the view that baptism is necessary for salvation*are*those who were saved apart from baptism.*The penitent woman (Luke 7:37-50), the paralytic man (Matthew 9:2), the publican (Luke 18:13-14), and the thief on the cross (Luke 23:39-43)*all experienced forgiveness of sins apart from baptism. For that matter, we have no record of the apostles' being baptized, yet Jesus pronounced them clean of their sins (John 15:3--note that the Word of God, not baptism, is what cleansed them).

The Bible also gives us an example of people who were saved before being baptized. In*Acts 10:44-48, Cornelius and those with him were converted through Peter's message. That they were saved before being baptized is evident from their reception of the Holy Spirit (v. 44) and the gifts of the Spirit (v. 46) before their baptism. Indeed, it is the fact that they had received the Holy Spirit (and hence were saved) that led Peter to baptize them (cf. v. 47).

One of the basic principles of biblical interpretation is the*analogiascriptura, the analogy of Scripture--we must compare Scripture with Scripture in order to understand its full and proper sense. Since the Bible doesn't contradict itself, any interpretation of a specific passage that contradicts the general teaching of the Bible is to be rejected.

Since the general teaching of the Bible is, as we have seen, that baptism and other forms of ritual are not necessary for salvation, no individual passage could teach otherwise. Thus we must look for interpretations of those passages that will be in harmony with the general teaching of Scripture.

With that in mind, let's look briefly at some passages that appear to teach that baptism is required for salvation.

In*Acts 2:38, Peter appears to link forgiveness of sins to baptism. But there are several plausible interpretations of this verse that do not connect forgiveness of sin with baptism. It is possible to translate the Greek preposition*eis--"because of," or "on the basis of," instead of "for." It is used in that sense in*Matthew 3:11;*12:41; and*Luke 11:32.

It is also possible to take the clause "and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ" as parenthetical. Support for that interpretation comes from that fact that "repent" and "your" are plural, while "be baptized" is singular, thus setting it off from the rest of the sentence. If that interpretation is correct, the verse would read "Repent (and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ) for the forgiveness of your sins." Forgiveness is thus connected with repentance, not baptism, in keeping with the consistent teaching of the New Testament (cf.*Luke 24:47;*John 3:18;*Acts 5:31;*10:43;*13:38;*26:18;*Ephesians 5:26).

A third possibility exists, as Wallace explains in*Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics:

It is possible that to a first-century Jewish audience (as well as to Peter), the idea of baptism might incorporate both the spiritual reality and the physical symbol. In other words, when one spoke of baptism, he usually meant both ideas--the reality and the ritual. Peter is shown to make the strong connection between these two in chapters 10 and 11. In 11:15-16 he recounts the conversion of Cornelius and friends, pointing out that at the point of their conversion they were baptized by the Holy Spirit. After he had seen this, he declared, "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit..." (10:47).

The point seems to be that if they have had the internal testimony of the Holy Spirit via spiritual baptism, there ought to be a public testimony/acknowledgment via water baptism as well. This may not only explain*Acts 2:38(viz., that Peter spoke of both reality and picture, though only the reality removes sins), but also why the NT speaks of only baptized believers (as far as we can tell): Water baptism is not a cause of salvation, but a picture; and as such it serves both as a public acknowledgment (by those present) and a public confession (by the convert) that one has been Spirit-baptized.

Mark 16:16, a verse often quoted to prove baptism is necessary for salvation, is actually a proof of the opposite. Notice that the basis for condemnation in that verse is not the failure to be baptized, but only the failure to believe. Baptism is mentioned in the first part of the verse because it was the outward symbol that always accompanied the inward belief.

I might also mention that many textual scholars think it unlikely that*vv. 9-20 are an authentic part of Mark's gospel. We can't discuss here all the textual evidence that has caused many New Testament scholars to reject the passage. But you can find a thorough discussion in Bruce Metzger, et al.,*A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, pp. 122-128, and William Hendriksen,*The Gospel of Mark, pp. 682-687.

Water baptism does not seem to be what Peter has in view in*1 Peter 3:21. The English word "baptism" is simply a transliteration of the Greek word*baptizo, which means "to immerse." Baptizo does not always refer to water baptism in the New Testament (cf.*Matthew 3:11;*Mark 1:8;*7:4;*10:38-39;*Luke 3:16;*11:38;*12:50;*John 1:33;*Acts 1:5;*11:16;*1 Corinthians 10:2;*12:13).

So Peter is not talking about immersion in water, as the phrase "not the removal of dirt from the flesh" indicates. He is referring to immersion in Christ's death and resurrection through "an appeal to God for a good conscience," or repentance. Again, it is not the outward act that saves, but the internal reality of the Spirit's regenerating work (cf.*Titus 3:4-8).

I also do not believe water baptism is in view in Romans 6*or Galatians 3. I see in those passages a reference to the baptism in the Holy Spirit (cf.*1 Corinthians 12:13). For a detailed exposition of those passages, I refer you to my commentaries on Galatians and Romans, or the transcripts my sermons on Galatians 3*and Romans 6.

In*Acts 22:16, Paul recounts the words of Ananias to him following his experience on the Damascus road: "Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name." It is best to connect the phrase "wash away your sins" with "calling on His name." If we connect it with "be baptized," the Greek participle*epikalesamenos*("calling") would have no antecedent. Paul's sins were washed away not by baptism, but by calling on His name.

Water baptism is certainly*important,and required of every believer. However, the New Testament does not teach that baptism is necessary for salvation.

https://www.gty.org/library/questions/QA79/is-baptism-necessary-for-salvation
Who is the author of Scripture? God or man? God has said Baptism forgives sins and also gives the gift of the Holy Spirit. That settles it for me. Your post starts out with error. Baptism is not an external act that you do for God, it is God delivering gifts to you and yes it is necessary for salvation, which is why the Lutheran churches and others baptize people, as soon as possible.
 

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Who is the author of Scripture? God or man? God has said Baptism forgives sins and also gives the gift of the Holy Spirit. That settles it for me. Your post starts out with error. Baptism is not an external act that you do for God, it is God delivering gifts to you and yes it is necessary for salvation, which is why the Lutheran churches and others baptize people, as soon as possible.
God has not said what you claim. The Greek disagrees with your claims.
 

Josiah

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God has not said what you claim.

God has never said, "Thou canst not baptize any who hath not yet celebrated a certain birthday (which I will not disclose)." You CLAIM the Bible forbids baptizing infants.... but you can't find the verse where He does. FRIEND, the reason you can't find and quote that verse is because it doesn't exist. The radical synergistic Anabaptist made it up in the late 16th Century, you are just parroting their Tradition. That's it. That's all.
 

zecryphon_nomdiv

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God has not said what you claim. The Greek disagrees with your claims.
Acts 2:38-39 is Scripture that is supported by Jesus in John 3:5. Who is the author of those and all of Scripture? Acts 2:38-39 says exactly what I say, that Baptism forgives sins and gives the gift of the Holy Spirit. Read the Scriptures as they are printed in the Bible and you will see they say what I say. They do not say what you say.
 

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God has never said, "Thou canst not baptize any who hath not yet celebrated a certain birthday (which I will not disclose)." You CLAIM the Bible forbids baptizing infants.... but you can't find the verse where He does. FRIEND, the reason you can't find and quote that verse is because it doesn't exist. The radical synergistic Anabaptist made it up in the late 16th Century, you are just parroting their Tradition. That's it. That's all.
Wrong topic. Prove paedobaptism from scripture. So far there are crickets on the topic.
 

MennoSota

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Acts 2:38-39 is Scripture that is supported by Jesus in John 3:5. Who is the author of those and all of Scripture? Acts 2:38-39 says exactly what I say, that Baptism forgives sins and gives the gift of the Holy Spirit. Read the Scriptures as they are printed in the Bible and you will see they say what I say. They do not say what you say.
Your exegesis of John 3 is as bad as it is for Acts 2.
John 3 had literally nothing about baptism.
You are projecting your dogma onto John 3.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

In the context of Jesus conversation with Nicodemus he is discussing physical birth and spiritual birth.
Physical birth begins with the water in the womb bursting. Spiritual birth begins with the Spirit of God making a person alive with Christ.
I am amazed at ho badly you interpret scripture, zec.
 

Josiah

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Your exegesis of John 3 is as bad as it is for Acts 2.
John 3 had literally nothing about baptism.
You are projecting your dogma onto John 3.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

In the context of Jesus conversation with Nicodemus he is discussing physical birth and spiritual birth.
Physical birth begins with the water in the womb bursting. Spiritual birth begins with the Spirit of God making a person alive with Christ.
I am amazed at ho badly you interpret scripture, zec.


SO revealing.....


So, Zecryphon actually STATES THE WORDS of Scripture and you completely reject it.

YOU dogmatically insist Scripture states something and then PROVE it does not.

Sooooo..... What the Scripture ACTUALLY STATES is irrelevant to you and rejected. What you PROVE the Scriptures NEVER states is actual dogma to you.


Hum. I wonder if you'll actually consider that. No, on second thought, I don't.




.
 

MennoSota

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SO revealing.....


So, Zecryphon actually STATES THE WORDS of Scripture and you completely reject it.

YOU dogmatically insist Scripture states something and then PROVE it does not.

Sooooo..... What the Scripture ACTUALLY STATES is irrelevant to you and rejected. What you PROVE the Scriptures NEVER states is actual dogma to you.


Hum. I wonder if you'll actually consider that. No, on second thought, I don't.




.
Here's the difference, Josiah. I actually read the passage and exegete the passage. I even provided it all for you. Meanwhile, zec, gives a couple verse references and imagines by posting the reference that his interpretation is legitimate. It is that biblical laziness, which both you and zec exhibit at is SO REVEALING.
Now, are you and zec going to actually address the topic of this thread or will you continue to avoid it and maintain the ruse that you have any biblical support?
 

zecryphon_nomdiv

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Your exegesis of John 3 is as bad as it is for Acts 2.
John 3 had literally nothing about baptism.
You are projecting your dogma onto John 3.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

In the context of Jesus conversation with Nicodemus he is discussing physical birth and spiritual birth.
Physical birth begins with the water in the womb bursting. Spiritual birth begins with the Spirit of God making a person alive with Christ.
I am amazed at ho badly you interpret scripture, zec.
You're not amazed, you're diverting. You refuse to discuss what Scripture plainly teaches, because it refutes your beliefs. John 3:5 is about Baptism because being born of water and Spirit is exactly what happens in Baptism. The Word of God is joined to the waters of Baptism and you receive the Holy Spirit and forgiveness of sins, since that is what the Word of God delivers.

People like you split Holy Baptism into two Baptisms, something Scripture does not teach. Your Age of Accoutability doctrine is not Scripturally supported and neither is your two Baptism doctrine supported. There is one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins. God the Son told Nicodemus this, and God the Holy Spirit told the whole world this when He dictated Acts 2:38-39 and all the other Scriptures you consider lies. Until you strip away all the lies you've been told and are willing to hear and learn the truth, further conversation is pointless.
 
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Josiah

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Here's the difference, Josiah. I actually read the passage and exegete the passage.


Here's the reality.

++ ACTUAL SCRIPTURE is quoted to you - actual, real, genuine WORDS - and you just entirely deny and reject it, if you don't agree with it. Perhaps ignoring it or SPINNING it so that you CLAIM the Holy Spirit should have inspired the opposite of what He did.

++ Then you dogmatically, foundationally claim "Scripture States" and then you yourself PROVE (right there in black and white) it does not.

Soooooo....

What Scripture states is irrelevant to you.
What Scripture nowhere states is dogma to you.


One COULD hope you'd see the obvious. But such hope would be in vain.



.
 

MennoSota

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You're not amazed, you're diverting. You refuse to discuss what Scripture plainly teaches, because it refutes your beliefs. John 3:5 is about Baptism because being born of water and Spirit is exactly what happens in Baptism. The Word of God is joined to the waters of Baptism and you receive the Holy Spirit and forgiveness of sins, since that is what the Word of God delivers.

People like you split Holy Baptism into two Baptisms, something Scripture does not teach. Your Age of Accoutability doctrine is not Scripturally supported and neither is your two Baptism doctrine supported. There is one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins. God the Son told Nicodemus this, and God the Holy Spirit told the whole world this when He dictated Acts 2:38-39 and all the other Scriptures you consider lies. Until you strip away all the lies you've been told and are willing to hear and learn the truth, further conversation is pointless.
Again, you divert from the actual subject.
I have corrected your poor exegisis and doctrine.
Address the topic or walk away.
 

MennoSota

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Here's the reality.

++ ACTUAL SCRIPTURE is quoted to you - actual, real, genuine WORDS - and you just entirely deny and reject it, if you don't agree with it. Perhaps ignoring it or SPINNING it so that you CLAIM the Holy Spirit should have inspired the opposite of what He did.

++ Then you dogmatically, foundationally claim "Scripture States" and then you yourself PROVE (right there in black and white) it does not.

Soooooo....

What Scripture states is irrelevant to you.
What Scripture nowhere states is dogma to you.


One COULD hope you'd see the obvious. But such hope would be in vain.



.
I have exegeted the passage. If you cannot comprehend it, that's your problem.
Since you refuse to actually address the topic of this thread, you show your failure to support paedobaptism from scripture.
 

zecryphon_nomdiv

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Again, you divert from the actual subject.
I have corrected your poor exegisis and doctrine.
Address the topic or walk away.
I have addressed the topic, I've even provided Scriptures that support my position, you call those lies. You refuse to address what is plainly written in Scripture because you know you have zero Scriptures that support your position that there are prohibitions on a ceremony you think is just symbolic.

So ask yourself this, why would God put prohibitions on a ceremony that, according to you, doesn't do anything? According to you Baptism doesn't forgive sins or grant the Holy Spirit to the recipient. So why forbid anyone from receiving it? I actually don't care what your answer is, because you have zero credibility and nothing you say will be in line with Scripture.
 
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Josiah

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So ask yourself this, why would God put prohibitions on a ceremony that, according to you, doesn't do anything? According to you Baptism doesn't forgive sins or grant the Holy Spirit to the recipient. So why forbid anyone from receiving it? I actually don't care what your answer is, because you have zero credibility and nothing you say will be in line with Scripture


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Of course, as our friend so often has proven, God NEVER put any of his restrictions, prohibitions and mandates on Baptism. He's proved it. Over and over and over. But why did the Anabaptists? Why - in the late 16th Century - did these radical synergists (out of thin air) invent all this stuff? Good question.... Yes, the orthodox/historic theology here seemed problematic in veiw of their radical synergism, but that should only caused them to insist that Jesus and the Apostles and the Bible and the Early Church SO VERY MUCH stressed Baptism because it doesn't do a ______ thing. I think they hated the idea that God actually does something - even to ones who at times sleep through the whole thing. Now why does MennoSota parrot this Anabaptist Tradition? REGARDLESS of he himself proving it is absent in Scripture and agreeing it's absent from nearly 1600 years of Christianty? Because the Anabaptist Tradition he parrots is unaccountable and simply "trumps" Scripture, history and everything else.
 

MennoSota

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I have addressed the topic, I've even provided Scriptures that support my position, you call those lies. You refuse to address what is plainly written in Scripture because you know you have zero Scriptures that support your position that there are prohibitions on a ceremony you think is just symbolic.

So ask yourself this, why would God put prohibitions on a ceremony that, according to you, doesn't do anything? According to you Baptism doesn't forgive sins or grant the Holy Spirit to the recipient. So why forbid anyone from receiving it? I actually don't care what your answer is, because you have zero credibility and nothing you say will be in line with Scripture.
That's not true. Neither Acts 2 nor John 3 support infant baptism. Please stop projecting your dogma upon God and his word.
 

atpollard

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At the risk of derailing your arguments with actual Scripture ...

Here is the context:


Acts 2:36-42
[NASB]
36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ--this Jesus whom you crucified."
37 Now when they heard [this,] they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?" 38 Peter [said] to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." 40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation!" 41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls. 42 They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.


[NKJV]
36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
37 Now when they heard [this], they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?" 38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." 40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation." 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added [to them]. 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.


[NLT]
36 "So let everyone in Israel know for certain that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, to be both Lord and Messiah!"
37 Peter's words pierced their hearts, and they said to him and to the other apostles, "Brothers, what should we do?" 38 Peter replied, "Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 This promise is to you, and to your children, and even to the Gentiles--all who have been called by the Lord our God." 40 Then Peter continued preaching for a long time, strongly urging all his listeners, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation!" 41 Those who believed what Peter said were baptized and added to the church that day--about 3,000 in all. 42 All the believers devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching, and to fellowship, and to sharing in meals (including the Lord's Supper), and to prayer.


[NIV]
36 "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah."
37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" 38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call." 40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day. 42 They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.



Where does it say that the physical act of baptism (sprinkling or immersion with/in water) removes sins?
Someone please exegete it for me.
 
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