Response to Christian Leaders leaving the faith

[MennoSota]

A young worship leader from Hillsong has announced he no longer has faith. He gave common reasons for leaving. However, I like the response of another song writer who, I believe, rightly rebukes those going into apostasy.

https://cogentchristianity.com/2019...er-on-apostasy-among-young-christian-leaders/

“Ok I’m saying it. Because it’s too important not to. What is happening in Christianity? More and more of our outspoken leaders or influencers who were once “faces” of the faith are falling away. And at the same time they are being very vocal and bold about it. Shockingly they still want to influence others (for what purpose?)as they announce that they are leaving the faith. I’ll state my conclusion, then I’ll state some rebuttals to statements I’ve read by some of them. Firstly, I never judge people outside of my faith. Even if they hate religion or Christianity. That is not my place and I have many friends who disagree with my religion and that is 100% fine with me. However, when it comes to people within my faith, there must be a measure of loyalty and friendship and accountability to each other and the Word of God.

“My conclusion for the church (all of us Christians): We must STOP making worship leaders and thought leaders or influencers or cool people or “relevant” people the most influential people in Christendom. (And yes that includes people like me!) I’ve been saying for 20 years(and seemed probably quite judgmental to some of my peers) that we are in a dangerous place when the church is looking to 20 year old worship singers as our source of truth. We now have a church culture that learns who God is from singing modern praise songs rather than from the teachings of the Word. I’m not being rude to my worship leader friends (many who would agree with me) in saying that singers and musicians are good at communicating emotion and feeling. We create a moment and a vehicle for God to speak. However, singers are not always the best people to write solid bible truth and doctrine. Sometimes we are too young, too ignorant of scripture, too unaware, or too unconcerned about the purity of scripture and the holiness of the God we are singing to. Have you ever considered the disrespect of singing songs to God that are untrue of His character?

“I have a few specific thoughts and rebuttals to statements made by recently disavowed church influencers…first of all, I am stunned that the seemingly most important thing for these leaders who have lost their faith is to make such a bold new stance. Basically saying, “I’ve been living and preaching boldly something for 20 years and led generations of people with my teachings and now I no longer believe it..therefore I’m going to boldly and loudly tell people it was all wrong while I boldly and loudly lead people in to my next truth.” I’m perplexed why they aren’t embarrassed? Humbled? Ashamed, fearful, confused? Why be so eager to continue leading people when you clearly don’t know where you are headed?

“My second thought is, why do people act like “being real” covers a multitude of sins? As if someone is courageous simply for sharing virally every thought or dark place. That’s not courageous. It’s cavalier. Have they considered the ramifications? As if they are the harbingers of truth, saying “I used to think one way and practice it and preach it, but now I’ve learned all the new truth and will start practicing and preaching it.” So the influencers become the voice for truth in whatever stage of life and whatever evolution takes place in their thinking.

“Thirdly, there is a common thread running through these leaders/influencers that basically says that “no one else is talking about the REAL stuff.” This is just flatly false. I just read today in a renown worship leader’s statement, “How could a God of love send people to hell? No one talks about it.” As if he is the first person to ask this? Brother, you are not that unique. The church has wrestled with this for 1500 years. Literally. Everybody talks about it. Children talk about it in Sunday school. There’s like a billion books written on the topic. Just because you don’t get the answer you want doesn’t mean that we are unwilling to wrestle with it. We wrestle with scripture until we are transformed by the renewing of our minds.

“And lastly, and most shocking imo, as these influencers disavow their faith, they always end their statements with their “new insight/new truth” that is basically a regurgitation of Jesus’s words?! It’s truly bizarre and ironic. They’ll say “I’m disavowing my faith but remember, love people, be generous, forgive others”. Ummm, why? That is actually not human nature. No child is ever born and says “I just want to love others before loving myself. I want to turn the other cheek. I want to give my money away to others in need”. Those are bible principles taught by a prophet/Priest/king of kings who wants us to live by a higher standard which is not an earthly standard, but rather the ‘Kingdom of God’ standard. Therefore if Jesus is not the truth and if the Word of God is not absolute, then by preaching Jesus’s teachings you are endorsing the words of a madman. A lunatic who said “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me.” He also said that he was alive before Abraham, and to see him was to see God because he was one with God. So why then would a disavowed christian leader promote that “generosity is good”? How would you know “what is good” without Jesus’s teachings? And will your ideas of what is “good” be different from year to year based on your experience, culture trends, poplular opinion etc and furthermore will you continue year by year to lead others into your idea of goodness even though it is not absolute? I’m amazed that so many Christians want the benefits of the kingdom of God, but with the caveat that they themselves will be the King.

“It is time for the church to rediscover the preeminence of the Word. And to value the teaching of the Word. We need to value truth over feeling. Truth over emotion. And what we are seeing now is the result of the church raising up influencers who did not supremely value truth who have led a generation who also do not believe in the supremacy of truth. And now those disavowed leaders are proudly still leading and influencing boldly AWAY from the truth.

“Is it any wonder that some of our disavowed Christian leaders are letting go of the absolute truth of the Bible and subsequently their lives are falling apart? Further and further they are sinking in the sea all the while shouting “now I’ve found the truth! Follow me!!” Brothers and sisters in the faith all around the world, pastors, teachers, worship leaders, influencers…I implore you, please please in your search for relevancy for the gospel, let us NOT find creative ways to shape Gods word into the image of our culture by stifling inconvenient truths. But rather let us hold on even tighter to the anchor of the living Word of God. For He changes NOT. “The grass withers and the flowers fade away, but the word of our God stands forever” (Isaiah 40:8)”

 

[tango]

Interesting points about putting young "worship leaders" on a pedestal. I hate the term "worship leader" - it suggests the rest of us can't worship unless we've got someone at the front (usually someone young and trendy) to point us in the right direction.

Also good points about how these leaders can lead us into truth and emotion. What isn't mentioned in the article is just how dangerous that approach can be and how damaging to faith it can be. If you go to some kind of "church event" that features an hour of upbeat repetitive music, then the inspirational speaker who promises great things (in the name of Jesus, innit) if only you go forward and make a commitment tonight (you know, tomorrow isn't guaranteed), then moves on out and leaves the ones who went forward with little more than a vague promise of good things to come, what happens to those people when they leave the venue? Chances are, come Monday morning, that sense of euphoria will have long since gone and the weekly drudge resumes. But since that sense of euphoria was presented as being God's presence, the person who doesn't know any better will wonder what they did that caused God to leave. Maybe they messed up somehow, even if they can't figure out why. So perhaps they try repenting of, well, whatever it was they did that they don't even understand yet. And then comes.... nothing. No renewed sense of God's presence. So in a couple of weeks they go to the next event, experience the same euphoria and know that everything is OK, God is still with them. At least for a couple of hours, before the euphoria fades and they wonder how they've messed up again.

Rinse and repeat a few times, and it's easy to see why people can come away figuring that they can't follow such a path if they don't even know what it is they are doing that's apparently upsetting God so much. If they're really lucky they'll come across a helpful doctrine like the serpent seed theory which, if well timed, might even convince them that they are doomed and there's no point even trying.

Since these things tend to be associated with the more charismatic/pentecostal churches they can also get bonus points by telling people that God wants to heal them no matter what, that God wants them to be financially prosperous, and then turn to blaming the victims when the promises don't materialise. Didn't get your healing? Obviously you have some hidden sin, or you aren't praying enough, or you are falling short in some way. Struggling to pay your bills? Must be your own fault, there must be something about you that means God isn't blessing you.

I remember a fairly smart guy once wrote "he must increase and I must decrease". It stands in pretty stark contrast to the idea of a "Christian influencer".

 

[Josiah]

Interesting points about putting young "worship leaders" on a pedestal. I hate the term "worship leader" - it suggests the rest of us can't worship unless we've got someone at the front (usually someone young and trendy) to point us in the right direction.

Also good points about how these leaders can lead us into truth and emotion. What isn't mentioned in the article is just how dangerous that approach can be and how damaging to faith it can be. If you go to some kind of "church event" that features an hour of upbeat repetitive music, then the inspirational speaker who promises great things (in the name of Jesus, innit) if only you go forward and make a commitment tonight (you know, tomorrow isn't guaranteed), then moves on out and leaves the ones who went forward with little more than a vague promise of good things to come, what happens to those people when they leave the venue? Chances are, come Monday morning, that sense of euphoria will have long since gone and the weekly drudge resumes. But since that sense of euphoria was presented as being God's presence, the person who doesn't know any better will wonder what they did that caused God to leave. Maybe they messed up somehow, even if they can't figure out why. So perhaps they try repenting of, well, whatever it was they did that they don't even understand yet. And then comes.... nothing. No renewed sense of God's presence. So in a couple of weeks they go to the next event, experience the same euphoria and know that everything is OK, God is still with them. At least for a couple of hours, before the euphoria fades and they wonder how they've messed up again.

Rinse and repeat a few times, and it's easy to see why people can come away figuring that they can't follow such a path if they don't even know what it is they are doing that's apparently upsetting God so much. If they're really lucky they'll come across a helpful doctrine like the serpent seed theory which, if well timed, might even convince them that they are doomed and there's no point even trying.

Since these things tend to be associated with the more charismatic/pentecostal churches they can also get bonus points by telling people that God wants to heal them no matter what, that God wants them to be financially prosperous, and then turn to blaming the victims when the promises don't materialise. Didn't get your healing? Obviously you have some hidden sin, or you aren't praying enough, or you are falling short in some way. Struggling to pay your bills? Must be your own fault, there must be something about you that means God isn't blessing you.

I remember a fairly smart guy once wrote "he must increase and I must decrease". It stands in pretty stark contrast to the idea of a "Christian influencer".

Right on target....


I've never been a modern American "Evangelical" or a part of these types of churches with their unique theology. But I know many who are. I find a disturbing emphasis on emotions/feelings.... and worse, on what seems to me to be "performance" Christianity. They seem to focus on "Do THIS and you'll be Christian.... things will then go well.... you'll be HAPPY." My theology teacher called this approach, "Hoop Jumping Christianity." Sadly, go to the "Religion" section of any bookstore, and there they are - shelves of "Christian" books telling you HOW to become happy, successful, a real Christian. Then when that doesn't "work" - well, wait for the next book. Seems to me, a lot of watering down and mixing of Law and Gospel.... and a wrong emphasis on how I feel rather than what Jesus accomplished. I think this whole approach, this theology... eventually proves pretty empty.

I remember a fairly smart guy once wrote "he must increase and I must decrease". It stands in pretty stark contrast to the idea of a "Christian influencer".

Exactly.


The problem comes when the focus is on how I feel and what I do..... with Satan's whole aim of getting us to look in the mirror rather than to the Cross..... in seeing how I feel as the issue rather than the historic reality of Easter.




.

 

[NewCreation435]

I'm not sure who put these people on pedestals but it isn't me. The only thing their being a song leader teaches you about them is that they can sing. It doesn't say anything about their character.
You put God alone on a pedestal and nobody else

 

[tango]

I'm not sure who put these people on pedestals but it isn't me. The only thing their being a song leader teaches you about them is that they can sing. It doesn't say anything about their character.
You put God alone on a pedestal and nobody else

This is just one part of the reason I increasingly dislike the tendency to see Christian musicians as stars, and much of the more modern music used in churches. Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against contemporary music, but when songs in church are more suited to gigs I start to take issue with it.

Traditional hymns take a form that's easy to follow - some are verse/verse/verse/verse and others are verse/chorus/verse/chorus. More contemporary music that takes the form of verse/chorus/verse/verse/bridge/verse/chorus 2/verse/bridge/bridge 2/chorus/verse/bridge is nowhere near as easy to follow and often written by someone with a lot of music talent who can sing well and can pull off something that is musically more difficult. Put that in front of a church and you either turn the service into a performance or, more likely, end up with half the people struggling to follow it and some of those who can follow struggling to actually sing it the way it was meant to be sung. That's before you get into the issues I mentioned previously about the "great move of God" experienced at a concert, that those leading on a Sunday morning at church are expected to copy. Because, you know, God moves powerfully whenever we dictate it.

The other issue is that the focus ends up being on the writer of the song rather than on God. Whether it's the writer's intention or not, when discussion is about what people think of (band)'s latest song it's already more about the band than about God.

 

[tango]

My theology teacher called this approach, "Hoop Jumping Christianity." Sadly, go to the "Religion" section of any bookstore, and there they are - shelves of "Christian" books telling you HOW to become happy, successful, a real Christian. Then when that doesn't "work" - well, wait for the next book. Seems to me, a lot of watering down and mixing of Law and Gospel.... and a wrong emphasis on how I feel rather than what Jesus accomplished. I think this whole approach, this theology... eventually proves pretty empty.

Yes, it proves empty because it is empty. Sooner or later people realise that things aren't as simple as putting in the prayers, pulling the lever, and getting exactly what you wanted like some kind of divine vending machine. You can only call 1-800-BAD-PRAY to complain about a mismatch between what you ordered and what you got so many times before you conclude that the whole thing is a crock and walk away from it.

I often wonder if there's any better way to turn people away from Christianity for life, than to sell them a fake bill of goods that will invariably result in God not keeping the promises they were told he made. After all, once you've concluded that God doesn't keep his promises you'd have to be a fool to believe in any of God's promises going forward. Sadly the explanation that God didn't keep a promise because he never made it in the first place isn't the first one people look to.

 

[psalms 91]

The key is knowing Gods will and praying accordingly. When we align with what God wants for us then our prayers will be effective. Until then many times the answer will be no

 

[tango]

The key is knowing Gods will and praying accordingly. When we align with what God wants for us then our prayers will be effective. Until then many times the answer will be no

This is very true - a problem arises when people butcher the meaning of Jesus saying that if we ask for anything in his name he would do it and end up asking for all sorts of outlandish things, tagging "in Jesus' name" before the "Amen" and then claiming the reason we didn't get it was a lack of faith or unconfessed sin or some such. The same thing happens with teachers who insist that it is always God's will to heal, but can't explain the times that the prayers go up but no healing comes down. It can be enormously damaging to insist that this bad theology is sound and blame the person who prayed, or the person who wasn't healed.