Outside the church there is no Salvation ( discussion)

[Alithis]

as for salvation without the church .. it is impossible to be the church without first being saved from without it .

for the church is the congregating of everyone in whom the holy Spirit dwells . the collective ,gathered pasrts of the body of the lord Jesus in whom the holy Spirit is present and in lordship.

you cannot get saved through the church .. you become the church because you get saved .
and to recognize the church first you look to its head ..if its head is any one other then the Lord JESUS himself ..then that is not Gods church that is a counterfeit .

the scripture does not say no one comes to the father but through the church .. he says no one comes to the father but by ME .
though some do seem to enjoy twisting his words into meaningless ambiguity to deceive people . i will not do so .

the word of God is absolute truth .

 

[MoreCoffee]

We agree I think, Mary has absolutely nothing to do with salvation for there is salvation in only one and it isnt Mary

Does your comment mean that the incarnation is not relevant to God's purposes in salvation?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Does your comment mean that the incarnation is not relevant to God's purposes in salvation?

It's the reincarnation that is significant. Not the carnations we are born with the ability to sin. We must sacrifice the sins of the flesh as Christ was sacrificed. We must be born again anew in utter holiness under God, as Christ was resurrected through the word of God. As Christ was without blemish, so must we be upon salvation. All sin will be cast out in a pile and burned in preparation for the new season. Either you can sacrifice your sin(greed), or you be burned up with it.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[MoreCoffee]

It's the reincarnation that is significant. Not the carnations we are born with the ability to sin. We must sacrifice the sins of the flesh as Christ was sacrificed. We must be born again anew in utter holiness under God, as Christ was resurrected through the word of God. As Christ was without blemish, so must we be upon salvation. All sin will be cast out in a pile and burned in preparation for the new season. Either you can sacrifice your sin(greed), or you be burned up with it.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

reincarnation is not a Christian belief.

 

[Alithis]

We agree I think, Mary has absolutely nothing to do with salvation for there is salvation in only one and it isn't Mary

by coffee "Does your comment mean that the incarnation is not relevant to God's purposes in salvation?

this is what they do.. he wants you to go down an ambiguous rabbit hole of screeds of text and meaningless non bible quotes and detract and distract from the clear plain scriptures .

we know that mary is not divine she is born of the same blood as adam
we know that she was betrothed to joseph of the line of David and that for this single reason she was chosen to carry the child in the womb and she has NO other attribute .
we know that she did not remain a virgin .. for joseph did not know her intimately until after the lord was born ... and they had other children

we know that you can pray to mary until your face turns blue and all you will do is continue in sin and rebellion against the lord Jesus because to approach God any other way but through the lord JEsus alone is SIN and REBELLION ..and it is apostasy to teach that any one can .

so we know Bill ,that when you said " Mary has absolutely nothing to do with salvation for there is salvation in only one and it isn't Mary" - that's exactly what you meant . and that you are referring to the LORD JESUS as the ONLY means of salvation.

you have to what these cult type techniques of leading you down rabbit holes of barrages of many words and doubt stirring questions .
get back to the basics of the rock solid word of God .

 

[MoreCoffee]

Jesus was born of a woman, born of Mary. The incarnation is a significant part of the story of salvation is it not? Surely Mary played a role in the incarnation of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[psalms 91]

Arole yes. We play a role in salvation as well but God forbid I would be prayed to or venerated by those who I lead to Christ. Not should Mary, Jesus is the only way,

 

[MoreCoffee]

Jesus was born of a woman, born of Mary. The incarnation is a significant part of the story of salvation is it not? Surely Mary played a role in the incarnation of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Arole yes. We play a role in salvation as well but God forbid I would be prayed to or venerated by those who I lead to Christ. Not should Mary, Jesus is the only way,

That's a retreat from the sweeping claim that Blessed Mary has absolutely no role in salvation. You wrote

We agree I think, Mary has absolutely nothing to do with salvation for there is salvation in only one and it isnt Mary

 

[psalms 91]

That's a retreat from the sweeping claim that Blessed Mary has absolutely no role in salvation. You wrote

​

She bore a child, does that give her a role in salvation? If you want to debate you should have left your thread open. There really is no debate because Jesus was very clear that there is no other way unto the Father but by me. No wiggle room there

 

[Hammster]

If Mary had a roll in salvation, then Joseph had a roll in salvation. Pilate. Herod. The soldier who drove the nails. Nicodemus. Joe of Arimathea. And so on and so forth.

 

[MoreCoffee]

She bore a child, does that give her a role in salvation? If you want to debate you should have left your thread open. There really is no debate because Jesus was very clear that there is no other way unto the Father but by me. No wiggle room there

If you want to exclude Catholic comment then maybe this thread ought to have been made non-catholic only.

 

[MoreCoffee]

If Mary had a roll in salvation, then Joseph had a roll in salvation. Pilate. Herod. The soldier who drove the nails. Nicodemus. Joe of Arimathea. And so on and so forth.

They did but some had a negative role (for example, Pilate, and Herod)) while the Blessed Virgin Mary had a positive role.

 

[Hammster]

The did but some had a negative role while the Blessed Virgin Mary had a positive role.

They all served God's purpose, right?

 

[MoreCoffee]

They all served God's purpose, right?

No, but some accomplished God's purpose by opposing God's revealed will.

 

[Hammster]

No, but some accomplished God's purpose by opposing God's revealed will.

That's another discussion. But it's still true that more than just Mary had a positive roll.

 

[MoreCoffee]

That's another discussion. But it's still true that more than just Mary had a positive roll.

All of the saints had a positive role in God's plan of salvation. Mary is pre-eminent.

 

[Hammster]

All of the saints had a positive role in God's plan of salvation. Mary is pre-eminent.

Based not on scripture, though.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Based not on scripture, though.

Based on holy scripture where Blessed Mary is seen in heaven wearing a crown of 12 stars and with the moon under her feet and the sun as her cloak.

Then the sanctuary of God in heaven opened, and the ark of the covenant could be seen inside it. Then came flashes of lightning, peals of thunder and an earthquake and violent hail. Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman, robed with the sun, standing on the moon, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was pregnant, and in labour, crying aloud in the pangs of childbirth. (Revelation 11:19-12:2 NJB)​

And Blessed Mary is called blessed by all generation at the word of God's command:

[Mary said], from now onwards all generations will call me blessed (Luke 1:48 NJB)​

 

[Hammster]

Based on holy scripture where Blessed Mary is seen in heaven wearing a crown of 12 stars and with the moon under her feet and the sun as her cloak.

Then the sanctuary of God in heaven opened, and the ark of the covenant could be seen inside it. Then came flashes of lightning, peals of thunder and an earthquake and violent hail. Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman, robed with the sun, standing on the moon, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was pregnant, and in labour, crying aloud in the pangs of childbirth. (Revelation 11:19-12:2 NJB)​

And Blessed Mary is called blessed by all generation at the word of God's command:

[Mary said], from now onwards all generations will call me blessed (Luke 1:48 NJB)​

She's not seen in heaven wearing a crown. Stop with the nonsense. I

 

[MoreCoffee]

She's not seen in heaven wearing a crown. Stop with the nonsense. I

I need not submit to your hermeneutic; I know that it is the Blessed Virgin Mary who is the primary reference in Rev 11:19-12:2. After all, who but the Blessed Virgin gave birth to the child who is saviour of the world.