Questions

[psalms 91]

How about the sins we keep doing with no repentance? Are they also forgiven without repentance. The problem here is that once saved we are called to obedience and if we do not obey then what? I am not talking messing up and asking forgiveness with repentance I am asking about those sins we just keep doing and never ask for forgiveness, are they forgiven or does the bible say we need to repent. Sorry Lamm I was just answering what you wrote in the other thread did not realize it was off topic

 

[Josiah]

IMO....


1. Our relationship with God is not a mechanical thing.... like a slot machine.... When we are His child, we are in a STATE of grace/mercy (just as we continue to be in a STATE of sin). But God's unconditional love/grace/mercy is upon us, Jesus' Blood covers us. YES we are to confess because this is our humility, our honesty, and our resolve.... and yes God forgives (even before we say the words) because we have the gift of faith and are covered by the Blood of the Lamb. This is why we are forgiven even of the sins of which we are unaware. No, it is not a case that we must acknowledge every sin and verbally repent (we'd do NOTHING else, 24/7, if that were the need) and then (like a machine) God spits out forgiveness. Repentance is good because it keeps us honest AND it reveals our resolve to apply God's strength to live as He Calls us to live.


2. I reject OSAS, so I accept that while dead unregenerate man cannot attain life/faith/Holy Spirit (Justification), he can wreck it (similarly, one can't give himself physical life but he can commit suicide). If we let sin REIGN in us (be our Lord, our Master) we are damaging our faith and therefore relationship with God. I like this illustration: Bob commits a sin. Bob, having faith and thus a relationship with God, repents. Does God forgive him? Absolutely, it is His promise and He is ALWAYS faithful to His promise (He CANNOT be otherwise). Next day, Bob commits the same sin and again repents. Does God forgive him in Christ? Of course, it is His promise and He is ALWAYS true to His promises (He CANNOT do otherwise). This goes on for 6 trillion days. Each day, Bob wakes up knowing (and intending) to do that sin.... He repents.... and does God forgive him? Yup It is His promise and He is ALWAYS true to His promises, He cannot do otherwise. God commands us to forgive endlessly ("seven times seventy") and He does not do less than He commands we mere mortals to do. BUT.... it breaks His heart.... Bob is PLAYING with God's mercy/grace/love.... and this impacts the relationship. Eventually, Bob's "repentance" is not honest and resolve, it is just a hoop he jumps through so that he doesn't feel guilty. And this game "eats away" at his faith .... until eventually, he has destroyed it. The day comes when he does that sin.... and doesn't even fool himself by that "repentance" which has not become repentance at all. He has no faith, he has no repentance, his long-lasting GAME wrecked it. Does God forgive him? Well.... He has not promised to.



Blessings...


- Josiah




.

 

[MennoSota]

How about the sins we keep doing with no repentance? Are they also forgiven without repentance. The problem here is that once saved we are called to obedience and if we do not obey then what? I am not talking messing up and asking forgiveness with repentance I am asking about those sins we just keep doing and never ask for forgiveness, are they forgiven or does the bible say we need to repent. Sorry Lamm I was just answering what you wrote in the other thread did not realize it was off topic

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...e-forgiven-why-must-i-continue-to-repent/?amp

If All My Sins Are Forgiven, Why Must I Continue to Repent?

SEPTEMBER 5, 2017*|*Stephen Welluma

It’s an understandable*question: If we’re justified by faith and forgiven all our sins—past, present, and future—then why is it necessary to continue seeking forgiveness?

Aren’t our sins already forgiven?

Both Saint and Sinner*

There are at least three biblical truths that must be kept together simultaneously.

First, for those who have repented of sin and trusted in Christ as Lord and Savior, God declares them right before him on the basis of Christ’s righteousness and substitutionary death (Rom. 3:21–26; 5:1; 8:1, 30, 33–34). As a declarative act of God and*not*a process by which we are infused with righteousness, justification takes place in the believer once for all time (Rom. 5:12–21; Phil. 3:8–9; 2 Cor. 5:19–21).

Although everyone will stand before Christ’s judgment seat and hear the public verdict of whether or not we are in him*(2 Cor. 5:10), for believers this end-time verdict has now been brought into the present. We have*alreadycrossed from death to life (John 5:24; Rom. 8:1). Justification once received cannot be lost.

Second, God commands us to confess our sins as we sin (1 John 1:9). This command not only applies to our initial justification, but, as the context of 1 John makes clear, confession is ongoing for Christians:

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves if we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar . . . but if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins (1 John 1:8–10).

Third, God not only commands us to confess our sins,*but also promises to forgive us in the future*and, in a real sense, hinges our forgiveness on whether we forgive others, after we have presumably been justified (Matt. 6:14; 18:15–35; 1 John 1:9; James 5:15).

Three Reflections

But how do we make theological sense of these truths without minimizing any of them? Here are three reflections.

First, from God’s viewpoint there is no problem with saying that when he declares us just, he forgives our future sins—as well as our past and present sins—since our future lies before him as an open book. Yet*from our point of view, it’s best to think of our justification as the forgiveness of all our past and present sins,*and*as the judicial ground for the forgiveness of future sins.

As we live our lives and unfortunately sin, we need to return to God in repentance and faith and seek his forgiveness. Yet*we do so on the basis of Christ’s work applied to us in our justification. Such an experience is*not*a new justification but a*renewed application*of our justification.

When we sin, we lose our consciousness of forgiveness and our sense of peace with God. So when we confess our sins, by the work of the Spirit, we are reawakened to what Christ has done for us, and God revives our security in him and assurance of our salvation. Believers, then, continue to pray daily for forgiveness—not with the despair of one who thinks he*is*lost, but in the confidence of justified and adopted children approaching a heavenly Father who has declared them just in Jesus Christ.

When we confess sin,*we are not experiencing*a*new*justification but*a*renewed application*of our justification.

Second, this issue illustrates the importance of time and history. In our justification by grace through faith in Christ’s all-sufficient work, our past, present, and future sins are fully forgiven and paid for—and yet*history*is important. In a similar way, although God elects a people for himself before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4-6) and it’s certain that they will be justified in Christ, the plan of salvation must still unfold in space and time. Christ must take on our humanity, live his life for us, and die*and be raised on our behalf.

In addition, for Christ’s work to be applied to us, the elect must come to exist, hear the gospel, and be brought to saving faith. Although God’s plan is from eternity, it’s effected in time. As temporal creatures, God applies Christ’s work to us by the Spirit*in time.

Third, we live in covenant relationship with our triune God. In history, we are brought to saving faith in Christ and enter into a covenant relationship with him. In that relationship—until our glorification—we will still sin, and God, as the triune-personal God, is displeased with our sin. This requires repenting and seeking forgiveness on an ongoing basis. As we confess our sin, God forgives us on the basis of Christ alone.

No Contradiction

We are always complete in Christ, yet*we are also in real relationship with God. By analogy, in human relationships*we know something of this truth. As a parent, I am in relationship with my five children. Because they are my family, they will never be cast out; the relationship is permanent. Yet if they sin against me, or I against them, our relationship is strained and needs to be restored. Our covenant relationship with God works in a similar way.

We ask God to forgive us not to be re-justified but to walk before him in confidence that Christ has paid it all.

This is how we can make sense of our full justification in Christ*and*Scripture’s teaching that we need ongoing forgiveness. In asking God to forgive us, we add nothing to Christ’s perfect work. Instead, we are reapplying what Christ has done for us*as our covenant head and Redeemer.

There is absolutely no contradiction between justification by grace through faith and our need for*ongoing forgiveness of sin.*We ask God to forgive us not to be re-justified but to walk before*him in confidence that Christ has paid it all, and we are debtors to grace alone. Justification occurs once for all time, yet confessing sin*and receiving*forgiveness is ongoing until we are glorified and sin no more.

 

[Lamb]

How about the sins we keep doing with no repentance? Are they also forgiven without repentance. The problem here is that once saved we are called to obedience and if we do not obey then what? I am not talking messing up and asking forgiveness with repentance I am asking about those sins we just keep doing and never ask for forgiveness, are they forgiven or does the bible say we need to repent. Sorry Lamm I was just answering what you wrote in the other thread did not realize it was off topic

All our sins were forgiven at the cross.

We don't receive that forgiveness personally until God gives us faith so that we believe. If someone wins an award but doesn't feel he should have and rejects it, then he doesn't ultimately get the trophy, does he? That's a weak analogy of course as any analogy is but you can kind of get the picture. Forgiveness is because of the cross. We then receive it once God gives us faith to trust that He has forgiven us.


When we sin, God accuses us with His Law of our sin and we repent with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives within us. If we confess our sins God will forgive...but it's not based upon our repentance that He forgives because repentance is a tool He uses. That repentance is connect directly to the cross where your sins were forgiven.

What happens when you don't repent? Do you receive forgiveness? I think that depends on if you outright reject God's Law in that case. If you insist you aren't sinning then you aren't going to be forgiven since you see no need for God to forgive you. That's why it's very serious when God warns us we can fall away from Him. It's not Him pushing us away because He doesn't, it's us pulling away because we are stuck in our sin and rejecting Him and His forgiveness.

Ultimately what I'm saying is that it's not the question of did God actually forgive that sin at the cross, because He did. It's about what happens in order to receive that forgiveness. We don't control that. We might reject Him but we cannot control His timing for us to realize we're sinning and repent.

 

[Michael]

How about the sins we keep doing with no repentance? Are they also forgiven without repentance. The problem here is that once saved we are called to obedience and if we do not obey then what? I am not talking messing up and asking forgiveness with repentance I am asking about those sins we just keep doing and never ask for forgiveness, are they forgiven or does the bible say we need to repent. Sorry Lamm I was just answering what you wrote in the other thread did not realize it was off topic

Amen. Very good point brother.

From what Jesus and the Apostles taught, God's forgiveness comes to those who repent.

The Father sent John the Baptist to prepare the way of the Christ, "And he went into all the region around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." (Luke 3:3). Jesus came preaching the same message of repentance (Matt 4:11, Luke 13:3-5, Luke 24:46-47). There is no 'state of forgiveness' that we enter into based on a confession of faith or belief in Christ. That is not Bible. And truthfully God's love becomes conditional upon the 'saved' individual once they "put their hand to the plow." I'll be, and have been, labeled a heretic for saying this, put I only repeat the Word of the New Testament. "If you keep My commands, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commands and remain in His love." (John 15:10). These are Jesus' Words, not mine. That is a condition.
The misguided teaching that 'Jesus is a friend of sinners' is not Bible, rather He said clearly - "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you." (John 15:14). There can be forgiveness, yes, when we slip up or struggle in our battle to put to death our sins, but there is no provision for continued sin in the 'believer' once they have begun the Journey.
We absolutely cannot continue in any sin once we've been "set free" and expect Jesus to keep forgiving us. He said "you'll perish" if we take the grace of God for granted. We can be assured of His love and forgiveness as we humbly strive with our whole heart to follow and obey Him and walk in His Way.

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. 9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart." - Gal 6:7-9

Amen.
And the very first message preached to the saints was to repent that our sins may be forgiven, for God will not continue to forgive an unrepentant sinner. Not going to happen.

"Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." - Acts 2:38

 

[MennoSota]

God's forgiveness comes to those who repent.

Romans 3:10-18
“None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one. Their throat is*an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive. The venom of asps is under their lips. Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and*the way of peace they have not known. There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Romans 3:21-27 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.

If God chooses not to intervene and adopt us as His child...we would NEVER repent willingly. We would remain in utter rebellion.
But, God chooses to make us alive in Christ and give us the gift of faith so that we might repent. God does this because he chooses to be gracious, not because we chose to repent first.
People who quote John the Baptists message as the gospel have completely missed the message of grace, which Jesus and the Apostles taught. Why are the messages different? Because John was preaching to Israel, under the Mosaic covenant, while Jesus and the Apostles speak to us, under the New covenant. Those who rely on John the Baptists message, rely on the law for their mercy. Those who rely on Jesus and the Apostles message, rely upon Jesus gracious atonement for their mercy.
Those who rely on the law, remain dead in their trespasses and sins. Those who rely upon the gracious atonement of Jesus are made alive in Christ. (Ephesians 2:1-10)

 

[Michael]

Those who rely on the law, remain dead in their trespasses and sins. Those who rely upon the gracious atonement of Jesus are made alive in Christ. (Ephesians 2:1-10)

You realize I don't teach reliance on the Law of Moses for anything right? That was a temporary covenantal Law given to God's chosen people in the Exodus to "test them and try them to know what was in their hearts whether they would obey God or not." (Deut 8:2)

I merely teach what Jesus and the Apostles taught. That repentance and obedience to the commandments of God given through Jesus Christ must be adhered to if we are to attain to the fullness of the promises of God. As Jesus was tested and proven faithful, those who will "sit with Him on His Throne" ruling over and ministering Life to the saved of the nations must be proven also. Will we, as Joshua & Caleb, serve God with our "whole heart" and so obtain the promises of God?

As we looked earlier at the Word which cannot be changed, we find that Jesus and the Apostles taught the necessity of repentance for the forgiveness of sins in the individual -

The Father sent John the Baptist to prepare the way of the Christ, "And he went into all the region around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." (Luke 3:3). Jesus came preaching the same message of repentance (Matt 4:11, Luke 13:3-5, Luke 24:46-47). There is no 'state of forgiveness' that we enter into based on a confession of faith or belief in Christ. That is not Bible. And truthfully God's love becomes conditional upon the 'saved' individual once they "put their hand to the plow." I'll be, and have been, labeled a heretic for saying this, put I only repeat the Word of the New Testament. "If you keep My commands, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commands and remain in His love." (John 15:10). These are Jesus' Words, not mine. That is a condition.
The misguided teaching that 'Jesus is a friend of sinners' is not Bible, rather He said clearly - "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you." (John 15:14). There can be forgiveness, yes, when we slip up or struggle in our battle to put to death our sins, but there is no provision for continued sin in the 'believer' once they have begun the Journey.
We absolutely cannot continue in any sin once we've been "set free" and expect Jesus to keep forgiving us. He said "you'll perish" if we take the grace of God for granted. We can be assured of His love and forgiveness as we humbly strive with our whole heart to follow and obey Him and walk in His Way.

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. 9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart." - Gal 6:7-9

Amen.
And the very first message preached to the saints was to repent that our sins may be forgiven, for God will not continue to forgive an unrepentant sinner. Not going to happen.

"Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." - Acts 2:38

Friend, you do know that this is Bible Truth, right? And you understand that no other verses can cancel these, correct?
Then indeed we must receive them and walk accordingly in repentance and obedience before our God. Or, as Jesus (not I) said, "you will likewise perish." (Luke 13:3) We all will "reap what we have sown" not what we have made a mental assent to that is not proved by our works and behavior.

Why do you continue to attack what I share? Everything I've posted is backed up by the bulk of Scripture. Yes, it differs greatly perhaps from the preaching of the modern "Christian" religion, but it is confirmed in the Word and by the Spirit.
You fight not against me, but against God.

 

[MennoSota]

You realize I don't teach reliance on the Law of Moses for anything right? That was a temporary covenantal Law given to God's chosen people in the Exodus to "test them and try them to know what was in their hearts whether they would obey God or not." (Deut 8:2)

I merely teach what Jesus and the Apostles taught. That repentance and obedience to the commandments of God given through Jesus Christ must be adhered to if we are to attain to the fullness of the promises of God. As Jesus was tested and proven faithful, those who will "sit with Him on His Throne" ruling over and ministering Life to the saved of the nations must be proven also. Will we, as Joshua & Caleb, serve God with our "whole heart" and so obtain the promises of God?

As we looked earlier at the Word which cannot be changed, we find that Jesus and the Apostles taught the necessity of repentance for the forgiveness of sins in the individual -

The Father sent John the Baptist to prepare the way of the Christ, "And he went into all the region around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." (Luke 3:3). Jesus came preaching the same message of repentance (Matt 4:11, Luke 13:3-5, Luke 24:46-47). There is no 'state of forgiveness' that we enter into based on a confession of faith or belief in Christ. That is not Bible. And truthfully God's love becomes conditional upon the 'saved' individual once they "put their hand to the plow." I'll be, and have been, labeled a heretic for saying this, put I only repeat the Word of the New Testament. "If you keep My commands, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commands and remain in His love." (John 15:10). These are Jesus' Words, not mine. That is a condition.
The misguided teaching that 'Jesus is a friend of sinners' is not Bible, rather He said clearly - "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you." (John 15:14). There can be forgiveness, yes, when we slip up or struggle in our battle to put to death our sins, but there is no provision for continued sin in the 'believer' once they have begun the Journey.
We absolutely cannot continue in any sin once we've been "set free" and expect Jesus to keep forgiving us. He said "you'll perish" if we take the grace of God for granted. We can be assured of His love and forgiveness as we humbly strive with our whole heart to follow and obey Him and walk in His Way.

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. 9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart." - Gal 6:7-9

Amen.
And the very first message preached to the saints was to repent that our sins may be forgiven, for God will not continue to forgive an unrepentant sinner. Not going to happen.

"Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." - Acts 2:38

Friend, you do know that this is Bible Truth, right? And you understand that no other verses can cancel these, correct?
Then indeed we must receive them and walk accordingly in repentance and obedience before our God. Or, as Jesus (not I) said, "you will likewise perish." (Luke 13:3) We all will "reap what we have sown" not what we have made a mental assent to that is not proved by our works and behavior.

Why do you continue to attack what I share? Everything I've posted is backed up by the bulk of Scripture. Yes, it differs greatly perhaps from the preaching of the modern "Christian" religion, but it is confirmed in the Word and by the Spirit.
You fight not against me, but against God.

I have no fight with God. I know my position with Him.

Ephesians 2:4-7 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

You see...I trust what God has promised me.

 

[atpollard]

[Mat 5:19 NASB] 19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others [to do] the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches [them,] he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Both are “in the kingdom of heaven”.

 

[Michael]

[Mat 5:19 NASB] 19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others [to do] the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches [them,] he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Both are “in the kingdom of heaven”.

You've touched on an interesting point of Scripture, brother!

In the last chapter of the Bible, Revelation 22, after all has been said & done - the wicked cast into the Lake of Fire (Rev 21:8); New Jerusalem having descended to earth where God will dwell eternally with man (Rev 21:2-3) - we find there are two groups of people living in the Kingdom of God.
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie."
- Rev 22:14-15

From what Jesus taught, those "outside" are the "sheep" of the Sheep & Goat nations Parable (Matt 25). Those who are the "Blessed" are the First Resurrection saints who were raised when Jesus returns as the Day of the Lord begins (1Thess 4:16-17), rose into the "air" to dethrone those "principalities and dark rulers in the heavenlies" and usher in the 1000 year reign with Christ from Jerusalem.
Remember, Christ's "brethren" are standing alongside Him in that judgment (Second Resurrection , John 5:28-29) that comes after the 1000 year reign. The "sheep" in this Parable include many who didn't know Him in this life, and many church-goers who didn't overcome. Brought into the Kingdom based on their "good works" they are the inheritance of the overcoming saints who were faithful and obedient in this Life and received the promises of Rev 2 & 3. (see Luke 19:17, Rev 2:26).

Truly, those who repent and are actually conformed into the image of the Son of God, are the ones that all creation is groaning for even now (Rom 8:19). These will be the "greatest in the Kingdom."
Those who were not deemed "wicked" , but never "overcame" in this life will be their inheritance. These are the "least in the Kingdom."
Now... both groups will be in the Eternal Kingdom of God. Those "outside the gates" of New Jerusalem will be ministered to and healed by the overcoming saints. Their sin will be gone. The tempter is eternally in the Lake. They will be able to learn and grow in the knowledge of God and enjoy His creation as it was meant to be from the start. (see Rev 22:1-5)

Oh glory! Praise God for His wonderful plan and purpose in Christ for His creation.
May we strive to overcome, labor to enter His rest and walk worthy of our calling, that we might be among those "brothers of Christ" that will take part in unfolding that great plan of God.
Amen!