All About Faith

Status
Not open for further replies.

YourTruthGod

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
1,017
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
How can it not be? We repent because the Holy Spirit is working in us, convicting us of the truth of God's law, which accuses us. Of being sinners who hate God and also revealing to us that what God declares in the Gospel is true, Jesus Christ has taken the punishment we earned and deserve. If we have been saved, we respond by repenting of our past sins, thanking God for saving us and asking Him to show us how to live the new life we have been given in Christ.

We have to admit we are sinners, confess our sins, be sorry for them, and repent of them, and call on Jesus to help.
We receive help and are given the Holy Spirit.

Where do you get we all hate God?
How do you get that God, for no known reason just saves some that hate Him while they hate Him, and then just lets the rest stay condemned while they can't help it? That is what your beliefs entail.
 

zecryphon_nomdiv

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 14, 2015
Messages
952
Age
52
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
One thing I've noticed is that when you quote Scriptures about 'Jesus saving those who obey Him' is who Jesus is speaking to at that time. One thing to keep on mind as you read Scripture is 'Who is Jesus talking to when He says these words? Why would He tell unbelievers to obey? He knows an unbeliever is not going to obey Him and do what He says. Only those who have faith will obey what He says to do.
 

zecryphon_nomdiv

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 14, 2015
Messages
952
Age
52
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
We have to admit we are sinners, confess our sins, be sorry for them, and repent of them, and call on Jesus to help.
We receive help and are given the Holy Spirit.

Where do you get we all hate God?
How do you get that God, for no known reason just saves some that hate Him while they hate Him, and then just lets the rest stay condemned while they can't help it? That is what your beliefs entail.
What prompts us to do that? Jesus is not a helper, He is a giver. He gives you the Holy Spirit. He gives His life to pay for your sins. He doesn't help you get the Holy Spirit because of something you've done.
 

YourTruthGod

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
1,017
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
One thing I've noticed is that when you quote Scriptures about 'Jesus saving those who obey Him' is who Jesus is speaking to at that time. One thing to keep on mind as you read Scripture is 'Who is Jesus talking to when He says these words? Why would He tell unbelievers to obey?

Jesus said whoever. It could be a believer, or an unbeliever. How is someone going to believe if they never heard of Jesus and what he says?

He knows an unbeliever is not going to obey Him and do what He says. Only those who have faith will obey what He says to do.

Jesus says, "Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.


Study that scripture carefully.

Jesus says ANYONE.

He also says CHOOSES. That proves we CAN believe and obey him.

He says anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out. Find out what? Find out if Jesus is teaching things from God. That is about getting faith when a person realizes it is teachings from God.
 

zecryphon_nomdiv

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 14, 2015
Messages
952
Age
52
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
We have to admit we are sinners, confess our sins, be sorry for them, and repent of them, and call on Jesus to help.
We receive help and are given the Holy Spirit.

Where do you get we all hate God?
How do you get that God, for no known reason just saves some that hate Him while they hate Him, and then just lets the rest stay condemned while they can't help it? That is what your beliefs entail.
Here is one place I get that all people hate God.

◄*Romans 3*►

New American Standard Bible*Par*▾*

All the World Guilty

******1Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision?*2Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God.*3What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?
4May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man*be found*a liar, as it is written,
************“THAT*YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN*YOUR WORDS,
************AND PREVAIL WHEN*YOU*ARE JUDGED.”
5But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? The God who inflicts wrath is not unrighteous, is He? (I am speaking in human terms.)*6May it never be! For otherwise, how will God judge the world?7But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner?*8And why not*say*(as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), “Let us do evil that good may come”? Their condemnation is just.
******9What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;
10as it is written,
************“THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS,*NOT EVEN ONE;
******11THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
************THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR*GOD;
******12ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE,*TOGETHER THEY HAVE*BECOME USELESS;
************THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
************THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”
******13“THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE,
************WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,”
************“THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS”;
******14“WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND*BITTERNESS”;
******15“THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
******16DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
******17AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN.”
******18“THERE IS NO FEAR OF*GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES.”
******19Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;*20because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law*comes*the knowledge of sin.


Justification by Faith

******21But now apart from the Law*therighteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,*22even*the*righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;*23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,*24being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith.*This was*to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;26for the demonstration,*I say,*of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
******27Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.*28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.*29Or is God*the God*of Jews only? Is He not*the God*of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,*30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.

We are God's creation, He loves us so much that He gave His one and only Son as a sacrifice for our sins.

John 3

16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.*17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.*18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
 

zecryphon_nomdiv

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 14, 2015
Messages
952
Age
52
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Jesus said whoever. It could be a believer, or an unbeliever. How is someone going to believe if they never heard of Jesus and what he says?



Jesus says, "Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.


Study that scripture carefully.

Jesus says ANYONE.

He also says CHOOSES. That proves we CAN believe and obey him.

He says anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out. Find out what? Find out if Jesus is teaching things from God. That is about getting faith when a person realizes it is teachings from God.
We can know if Jesus is speaking the things of God or not by going to the writings that testify about God, the Scriptures. In Jesus' day they weren't all compiled into a nice book like we have now, but the people knew them. Notice the words Jesus is using, they are words that make what He says applicable to everyone. Anyone is not specific to one group of people. If Jesus believes we can save ourselves by doing, why does He say in Ephesians 2 that we are saved by grace through faith and this is not the result of works? Does Jesus contradict Himself? Is that a characteristic of God? If it is, how can we trust anything He said in the Bible?
 

YourTruthGod

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
1,017
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What prompts us to do that?

Here is something that could prompt you---

You read about how God came in the flesh as a son of man and died for you.

God draws us with lovingkindness.

Of course some don't want to give up their sinful life; but, there are those who do want more out of this life, and they want to have a personal relationship with God.


Jesus is not a helper, He is a giver.

Givers are not helpers?

Hebrews 13:6 So we say with confidence, “The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can mere mortals do to me?”

The Holy Spirit is known as the Helper, the Comforter, the Advocate.

He gives you the Holy Spirit. He gives His life to pay for your sins. He doesn't help you get the Holy Spirit because of something you've done.


Jesus gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey him.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Matthew 18:3 "I assure you," He said, "unless you are converted and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Proverbs 8:17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me.

...and more.
 

zecryphon_nomdiv

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 14, 2015
Messages
952
Age
52
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Here is something that could prompt you---

You read about how God came in the flesh as a son of man and died for you.

God draws us with lovingkindness.

Of course some don't want to give up their sinful life; but, there are those who do want more out of this life, and they want to have a personal relationship with God.




Givers are not helpers?

Hebrews 13:6 So we say with confidence, “The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can mere mortals do to me?”

The Holy Spirit is known as the Helper, the Comforter, the Advocate.




Jesus gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey him.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Matthew 18:3 "I assure you," He said, "unless you are converted and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Proverbs 8:17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me.

...and more.
Who is Jesus speaking to in those Scriptures? Unbelievers? Or believers? And why would words written in a book prompt anyone to do anything? The person reading them would have to be certain they are true. Who reveals the truth to us? The Holy Spirit does, the teacher sent by Jesus to us.
 

YourTruthGod

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
1,017
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Here is one place I get that all people hate God.

◄*Romans 3*►

New American Standard Bible*Par*▾*

All the World Guilty

******1Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision?*2Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God.*3What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?
4May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man*be found*a liar, as it is written,
************“THAT*YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN*YOUR WORDS,
************AND PREVAIL WHEN*YOU*ARE JUDGED.”
5But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? The God who inflicts wrath is not unrighteous, is He? (I am speaking in human terms.)*6May it never be! For otherwise, how will God judge the world?7But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner?*8And why not*say*(as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), “Let us do evil that good may come”? Their condemnation is just.
******9What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;
The Jews were called the holy people of God. The Jews were purified by doing the purification works; but the Gentiles did not, and they were called unclean people.
Paul is explaining that the Jews are sinners too, and now ALL must go through Jesus to be cleaned, Jew and Gentile.
10as it is written,
************“THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS,*NOT EVEN ONE;
Do you see how Paul says ‘as it is written’?
That is Paul quoting the Old Testament scriptures.
Paul is quoting Psalm14:1-3; 53:1-3; and Ecclesiastes 7:20. Ecclesiastes SAYS there is not a RIGHTEOUS man who does what is right and NEVER SINS. Ecclesiastes tells us that there ARE RIGHTEOUS men but none who NEVER sin. Paul is explaining that the Jews were sinners just like the Gentiles. Nowhere in these passages or scriptures anywhere does it say none can believe on their own. In this same Ecclesiastes 7, Solomon tells us about wise men, righteous men, and about a man who pleases God. Solomon also tells us that he found one upright man among a thousand. The Bible tells us that there are people who want to do right.

Justification by Faith

******21But now apart from the Law*therighteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,*22even*the*righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;*23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,*24being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith.*This was*to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;26for the demonstration,*I say,*of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
******27Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.*28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.*29Or is God*the God*of Jews only? Is He not*the God*of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,*30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
These are the works of the law that Paul was explaining that are no more:
The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.

Those are the purification works of the law in which the Jews used to have to do to be justified as a child of God.
The Jews used to be able to boast in doing those things.
Galatians 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.

Philippians 3:3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh--

But now, since Jesus, ALL can be purified/justified, just by having faith that Jesus’ blood clean us.
That does NOT mean we do not have to believe and obey God anymore, it means we don’t have to get circumcised and sacrifice animals anymore.
 

YourTruthGod

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
1,017
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
We can know if Jesus is speaking the things of God or not by going to the writings that testify about God, the Scriptures. In Jesus' day they weren't all compiled into a nice book like we have now, but the people knew them. Notice the words Jesus is using, they are words that make what He says applicable to everyone. Anyone is not specific to one group of people. If Jesus believes we can save ourselves by doing, why does He say in Ephesians 2 that we are saved by grace through faith and this is not the result of works? Does Jesus contradict Himself? Is that a characteristic of God? If it is, how can we trust anything He said in the Bible?

It is because you were taught wrong about what Paul was speaking about when he says 'not of works'.

Paul was speaking about the purification works of the law.

Grace is that no one has to do the purification works of the law, just to go to the temple to be near God's Spirit.
Grace is that we only have to have faith that Jesus' blood shed on the cross purifies us of the sins we repent of doing, and we become the temple.
 

YourTruthGod

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
1,017
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Who is Jesus speaking to in those Scriptures? Unbelievers? Or believers? And why would words written in a book prompt anyone to do anything? The person reading them would have to be certain they are true. Who reveals the truth to us? The Holy Spirit does, the teacher sent by Jesus to us.

Jesus is speaking to anyone who gets his teachings and hears his message.
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
32,653
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
54
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
You are making it harder than it is. Just get Jesus' teachings and do what he says, and you will see.
The Pharisees said the same thing. Just follow God's teachings and you'll be saved. Simple.
 

zecryphon_nomdiv

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 14, 2015
Messages
952
Age
52
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
It is because you were taught wrong about what Paul was speaking about when he says 'not of works'.

Paul was speaking about the purification works of the law.

Grace is that no one has to do the purification works of the law, just to go to the temple to be near God's Spirit.
Grace is that we only have to have faith that Jesus' blood shed on the cross purifies us of the sins we repent of doing, and we become the temple.
The law accuses. That's all it does
It does not purify. It was given to show us that we are sinners in need of a Savior.
 

zecryphon_nomdiv

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 14, 2015
Messages
952
Age
52
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
I'm unsubscribing from this thread. It's become circular and unproductive.

/unsubscribing
 

YourTruthGod

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
1,017
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Actually, no, Jesus was speaking to believers.

No, Jesus was speaking about ANYONE. He even plainly says 'anyone'.

Romans 16:25-27 Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him–to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

John 20:30 Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Jesus told his disciples to testify about him, see John 15:27.

Do you really think that a person yet to hear and so is an unbeliever was not going to read and hear about Jesus saying IF ANYONE obeys me I will live in him?
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
54
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
It is your loss. I spent a lot of careful time explaining your many questions.
Really? You really think you spent careful time explaining? Really???
YTG, you are delusional, but I don't doubt you really believe your thoughts were sound.
It should be a red flag to you that no one agrees with you, but do you take that as a red flag? No, you just double down and claim everyone else is wrong.
There is no value in conversing with you. You live on your island and refuse rescue. We just need to row away and leave you on the island you have created.
Thankfully, God knows when and if you will be saved from the island you have built.
 
Last edited:

YourTruthGod

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
1,017
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The law accuses. That's all it does
It does not purify. It was given to show us that we are sinners in need of a Savior.

Don't you care about the whole Truth?

So God told the people to atone for their souls and gave them the purification works to do, and you deny it?

Acts 24:18
I was ceremonially clean when they found me in the temple courts doing this. There was no crowd with me, nor was I involved in any disturbance.

Acts 10:14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”


2 Corinthians 6:17 Therefore, “Come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you.”

Hebrews 9:13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean.

 

YourTruthGod

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
1,017
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God COMMANDED the sacrifice of animals for the Israelites to atone for their souls.


Leviticus 1:5 You are to slaughter the young bull before the LORD, and then Aaron's sons the priests shall bring the blood and splash it against the sides of the altar at the entrance to the tent of meeting.

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.

Genesis 9:4
"But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it.

Leviticus 17:12
Therefore I say to the Israelites, "None of you may eat blood, nor may any foreigner residing among you eat blood."

Hebrews 9:22
In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom