Jesus Christ, died for all

[atpollard]

Give the scripture that says God saves unbelievers.

You go against everything that God says, everything.

You understand not one scripture, not one.

Ephesians 2:1-5
[NASB] 1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

 

[MoreCoffee]

Your denial means nothing towards the truth.

Do you think that reply is a debate?

 

[YourTruthGod]

Do you think that reply is a debate?

Denial is not debating or discussing or anything but denial. You should agree with me on that but you might be too stubborn?

 

[YourTruthGod]

Ephesians 2:1-5
[NASB] 1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Dead in trespasses is about circumcision.

 

[MennoSota]

Dead in trespasses is about circumcision.

????
Perhaps you meant vasectomy?

 

[atpollard]

Dead in trespasses is about circumcision.

You requested “scripture that says God saves unbelievers”.

[Eph 2:4-5 NASB] 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Are “transgressions” also about “circumcision”?
... [As a small bunny trail, that is your interpretation of Ephesians 2 and most here would probably disagree with that interpretation of the verse. Just to tie it back to another discussion about the need for interpretation in scripture.]

God made us alive (that is saved) while we were in our transgressions (it says ‘and sins’ elsewhere in Eph 2 as well as making reference to being under the world and the prince of the air and one of the children of disobedience ... which does not speak of someone full of faith. It goes on to further clarify that we were saved by ‘grace’ (unmerited favor). If we were saved because of our faith, then the favor was the result of a merit (and the withholding of the favor is the result of demerit) so that grace is not grace.

Your interpretation is both mistaken and irrelevant.
It focuses on the wrong details within the paragraph.

 

[Andrew]

God made us alive even when we were dead in our sin... It really can't get anymore clearer than this.
The faithful no matter how you slice it, are no longer dead, yet YTG wants to convince us that God welcomes the faithless, you can't be faithful to God before having Faith (not having faith)... makes no sense at all

 

[YourTruthGod]

????
Perhaps you meant vasectomy?

The Jews did the purification works of the law to atone for their souls.

Circumcision was required and it was the sign and the seal.

The Gentiles were unclean people dead in their sins because they didn't get circumcised and do the other purification works.

 

[YourTruthGod]

You requested “scripture that says God saves unbelievers”.

[Eph 2:4-5 NASB] 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

That is about circumcision.

Are “transgressions” also about “circumcision”?
... [As a small bunny trail, that is your interpretation of Ephesians 2 and most here would probably disagree with that interpretation of the verse. Just to tie it back to another discussion about the need for interpretation in scripture.]

Read how many times circumcision is mentioned in that letter.

God made us alive (that is saved) while we were in our transgressions (it says ‘and sins’ elsewhere in Eph 2 as well as making reference to being under the world and the prince of the air and one of the children of disobedience ... which does not speak of someone full of faith. It goes on to further clarify that we were saved by ‘grace’ (unmerited favor). If we were saved because of our faith, then the favor was the result of a merit (and the withholding of the favor is the result of demerit) so that grace is not grace.

You must not know what Paul taught them.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

How many times do you have to be told that we have to obey and repent of our sins.

Your interpretation is both mistaken and irrelevant.
It focuses on the wrong details within the paragraph.

You understand not one scripture.

 

[YourTruthGod]

God made us alive even when we were dead in our sin... It really can't get anymore clearer than this.
The faithful no matter how you slice it, are no longer dead, yet YTG wants to convince us that God welcomes the faithless, you can't be faithful to God before having Faith (not having faith)... makes no sense at all

What you said makes no sense at all.

 

[Andrew]

What you said makes no sense at all.

You say Faith comes after one obeys, how can the unfaithful obey???!! that makes no sense!

 

[YourTruthGod]

You say Faith comes after one obeys, how can the unfaithful obey???!! that makes no sense!

A person can have faith and then obey; or a person can obey first then come to have faith.

John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.


Did you read that? That scripture plainly says that a person WHO CHOOSES to do what God says to do WILL FIND OUT if Jesus' teaching come from God.

That is about BELIEVING AFTER CHOOSING TO OBEY.

That just destroys totally your preaching others to believe you can't believe and obey until after you are saved.

 

[Andrew]

A person can have faith and then obey; or a person can obey first then come to have faith.

You cant have it both ways, one of those is wrong, i'll give you a hint, the first one is right

 

[MoreCoffee]

You cant have it both ways, one of those is wrong, i'll give you a hint, the first one is right

Lots of people start with religion inherited from parents and culture and only later grow to have a personal faith; such persons start with obedience and later acquire faith. Other people come from cultures and backgrounds where Christianity was not so common and they more likely than not first hear the gospel, like it, and come to believe it only later slowly acquiring knowledge of Christian morals and conduct which is obedience. So yes it can be had both ways one way with with some people another way with other people.

 

[MennoSota]

Lots of people start with religion inherited from parents and culture and only later grow to have a personal faith; such persons start with obedience and later acquire faith. Other people comes from cultures and backgrounds where Christianity was not so common and they more likely than not first hear the gospel, like it, and come to believe it only later slowly acquiring knowledge of Christian morals and conduct which is obedience. So yes it can be had both ways one way with with some people another way with other people.

MC, the way you speak of the path is so humanistic.
We are all born in sin. Whether we practice self-righteousness or hedonism, we are still rebels against the Sovereign God. God has to choose to grab us by grace and crush our rebellion while making us alive with Christ.
It's always God working. It's always God Sovereignly guiding. Nothing happens by accident or outside of God's sovereign guidance.
It is always God's way.

 

[YourTruthGod]

You cant have it both ways, one of those is wrong, i'll give you a hint, the first one is right

John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.


Did you read that? That scripture plainly says that a person WHO CHOOSES to do what God says to do WILL FIND OUT if Jesus' teaching come from God.

That is about BELIEVING AFTER CHOOSING TO OBEY.

That just destroys totally your preaching others to believe you can't believe and obey until after you are saved.

 

[MoreCoffee]

MC, the way you speak of the path is so humanistic.

Not humanistic. It is human, like Jesus Christ himself is human. If your theology causes you to stumble then abandon it. It is better to enter into life without Calvinism than to keep it and lose life.

We are all born in sin. Whether we practice self-righteousness or hedonism, we are still rebels against the Sovereign God. God has to choose to grab us by grace and crush our rebellion while making us alive with Christ.
It's always God working. It's always God Sovereignty guiding. Nothing happens by accident or outside of God's sovereign guidance.
It is always God's way.

Your theology knows nothing of context and knows only a little of God; he is Love not mere sovereignty and he died for the benefit of human beings because he loves them not for the glory of his Sovereignty apart from love for his people. This theology that you preach is black. It is darkness. I urge you to turn from it.

 

[MennoSota]

Lots of people start with religion inherited from parents and culture and only later grow to have a personal faith; such persons start with obedience and later acquire faith. Other people come from cultures and backgrounds where Christianity was not so common and they more likely than not first hear the gospel, like it, and come to believe it only later slowly acquiring knowledge of Christian morals and conduct which is obedience. So yes it can be had both ways one way with with some people another way with other people.

Not humanistic. It is human, like Jesus Christ himself is human. If your theology causes you to stumble then abandon it. It is better to enter into life without Calvinism than to keep it and lose life.



Your theology knows nothing of context and knows only a little of God; he is Love not mere sovereignty and he died for the benefit of human beings because he loves them not for the glory of his Sovereignty apart from love for his people. This theology that you preach is black. It is darkness. I urge you to turn from it.

What you wrote in the first post is very much from a human perspective, devoid of God's continual work in every person.
My response was to point out God's work as God reveals in the Bible.
In your response you declare that God being fully in control is "a little God." You express that a fully Sovereign God is somehow unloving.
Please explain that to me. How is a God who is fully Sovereign over His entire creation therefore an unloving God?
As for the crutch of John Calvin you are leaning on. Let me have the pleasure of kicking him out from under you. Let us address what God says directly and let John Calvin be a dead man who opposed the hell bound path of Rome 500 years ago.
It's 2019. The Bible is sufficient. If you wish to show how a fully Sovereign God is also an unloving God, use scripture to make your argument.

 

[MoreCoffee]

What you wrote in the first post is very much from a human perspective, devoid of God's continual work in every person.
My response was to point out God's work as God reveals in the Bible.
In your response you declare that God being fully in control is "a little God." You express that a fully Sovereign God is somehow unloving.
Please explain that to me. How is a God who is fully Sovereign over His entire creation therefore an unloving God?
As for the crutch of John Calvin you are leaning on. Let me have the pleasure of kicking him out from under you. Let us address what God says directly and let John Calvin be a dead man who opposed the hell bound path of Rome 500 years ago.
It's 2019. The Bible is sufficient. If you wish to show how a fully Sovereign God is also an unloving God, use scripture to make your argument.

I don't think I shall explain to you again what I explained to you in the past. That you didn't learn from the first encounter is no reason for me to repeat it for you. Go back and read the posts I've written in answer to your extreme Calvinism. Besides it is not me that you need to teach you. Read the holy scriptures because they teach you a better way than the terrible way that Calvinism offers. And please read with context. No more of this sloganeering with snippets drawn from old testament prophets misread and misapplied to suit this wicked Calvinist agenda. You could start with the four gospels because in them you can, if you want to, find what Jesus has to say about human dignity, responsibility, and compassion as well as duty, obligation, and obedience. It isn't all divine decrees and impersonal predestination. Repent and believe the gospel because the kingdom of God is at hand.

 

[Josiah]

You requested “scripture that says God saves unbelievers”.

[Eph 2:4-5 NASB] 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Yup.


But some seem to want this to read: "But the spiritually dead unregerate enemies of God, being rich in power and glory, even though they are dead, make themselves alive by adequately obeying God, making God irrelevant, making grace and mercy unnecessary, making Jesus moot."


Easter SHOULD be a time to affirm that Christ is the Savior, that God gives to us life - an abundant life here and an eternal life hereafter.



https://christianityhaven.com/showthread.php?6902-Is-Jesus-The-Savior

You say Faith comes after one obeys, how can the unfaithful obey???!! that makes no sense!

Good point. And the Bible states that without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God, so what does the person do without faith that pleases God?



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