Pope's Visit to the USA

[psalms 91]

There is a big difference - allowing public prayer (to whatever deity the person praying wishes to petition) is a good thing, mandating it is another.

The problem with prayers in schools is the simple question of the faith of the children in school. I wouldn't want any child of mine expected to sit through an Islamic or Hindu service, and on that basis it's not hard to see why Islamic or Hindu parents wouldn't want their children expected to sit through a Christian service.

It was a simple prayer when school started or perhaps atcommencement or a school function, if anyone did not like it they did not have to participate and or could go in the hall. Im sorry but it is plain that there is a move afoot to discredit and take Christianity out of everything and it has been going on a long time. Noone was ever forced to participate and it was not a bad thing.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Was there anything in particular in his speech that you considered to be prophetic?

Just read the speech and then you can decide for yourself. By the way, I used "prophetic" in the sense of speaking uncomfortable truth to power rather than as an utterance of one who holds a prophetic office.

 

[MarkFL]

It was a simple prayer when school started or perhaps atcommencement or a school function, if anyone did not like it they did not have to participate and or could go in the hall. Im sorry but it is plain that there is a move afoot to discredit and take Christianity out of everything and it has been going on a long time. Noone was ever forced to participate and it was not a bad thing.

Yes, I recall that...the one kid (Nathan E.) whose parents did not wish for him to sit through the Christian prayer was made to go sit out in the hall. We all watched as the teacher solemnly dragged a chair out there for him, and then came back and took him by the arm to the chair, and then closed the door. He was then seen by the rest of us as an outcast and was largely shunned. He became that weird kid who wasn't one of us. Us kids didn't know any better, but the adults in charge should certainly have known better.

I have no problem with prayer being allowed anywhere, but I do have a problem with people being made to participate, or told to leave. People can pray to their chosen deity without involving others.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes, I recall that...the one kid (Nathan E.) whose parents did not wish for him to sit through the Christian prayer was made to go sit out in the hall. We all watched as the teacher solemnly dragged a chair out there for him, and then came back and took him by the arm to the chair, and then closed the door. He was then seen by the rest of us as an outcast and was largely shunned. He became that weird kid who wasn't one of us. Us kids didn't know any better, but the adults in charge should certainly have known better.

I have no problem with prayer being allowed anywhere, but I do have a problem with people being made to participate, or told to leave. People can pray to their chosen deity without involving others.

Religious practises ought not to be part of a secular state funded school day.

 

[psalms 91]

Of course not, then please dont complain about the drugs alcohol, teenage pregnancy and all the rest. Do I think that this caused all that, no. But I do think that when all this started a lot of bad things began to happen.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Of course not, then please dont complain about the drugs alcohol, teenage pregnancy and all the rest. Do I think that this caused all that, no. But I do think that when all this started a lot of bad things began to happen.

I rarely complain about USA schools

 

[tango]

It was a simple prayer when school started or perhaps atcommencement or a school function, if anyone did not like it they did not have to participate and or could go in the hall. Im sorry but it is plain that there is a move afoot to discredit and take Christianity out of everything and it has been going on a long time. Noone was ever forced to participate and it was not a bad thing.

A simple prayer is all well and good, but what if the teacher isn't a Christian? What if the teacher followed another faith - would you be happy for a Muslim or a Satanist to lead morning prayers on the basis your child didn't have to participate?

 

[MoreCoffee]

A simple prayer is all well and good, but what if the teacher isn't a Christian? What if the teacher followed another faith - would you be happy for a Muslim or a Satanist to lead morning prayers on the basis your child didn't have to participate?

I can imagine it ... teacher says, "let us all face Mecca, kneel, and say:

Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar
[God is the greatest, God is the greatest]
Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar
[God is the greatest, God is the greatest]
Ashadu an la ilaha ill Allah
[I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship but God]
Ashadu an la ilaha ill Allah
[I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship but God]
Ashadu anna Muhammadan rasoolullah
[I bear witness that Muhammad is the prophet of God]
Ashadu anna Muhammadan rasoolullah
[I bear witness that Muhammad is the prophet of God]
Hayya'alas salah [Come to prayer,]
Hayya'alas salah [Come to prayer,]
Hayya'alal falah [Come to success,]
Hayya'alal falah [Come to success,]
Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar
[God is the greatest, God is the greatest]
La ilaha ill Allah
[There is no deity but God.]​

 

[tango]

Just read the speech and then you can decide for yourself. By the way, I used "prophetic" in the sense of speaking uncomfortable truth to power rather than as an utterance of one who holds a prophetic office.

OK, I'll look at it with that use of "prophetic" in mind. Speaking uncomfortable truth to those with power is very different to what I'd call a prophetic speech, so thanks for clearing up what you meant before I started getting puzzled

 

[MoreCoffee]

OK, I'll look at it with that use of "prophetic" in mind. Speaking uncomfortable truth to those with power is very different to what I'd call a prophetic speech, so thanks for clearing up what you meant before I started getting puzzled

The old covenant prophets spent a lot of time ruffling the feathers of kings and priests; their main message was "return to the Lord and stop sinning" which is not really what a king wants to hear so the prophets spoke truth (uncomfortable truth) to power. John the Baptist lost his head for so doing. The Lord Jesus Christ also was killed in part because of his message to the priests and Pharisees.

 

[tango]

The old covenant prophets spent a lot of time ruffling the feathers of kings and priests; their main message was "return to the Lord and stop sinning" which is not really what a king wants to hear so the prophets spoke truth (uncomfortable truth) to power. John the Baptist lost his head for so doing. The Lord Jesus Christ also was killed in part because of his message to the priests and Pharisees.

That makes sense - personally I'd use the word "prophetic" to describe something that was either predictive or insightful in a way that exceeded the kind of insight you'd expect a man to have from natural means but as you say the message from the OT prophets was very frequently not what those in power wanted to hear.