new birth John 3:10-13

[NewCreation435]

In John 3:10-13 Jesus is speaking with Nicodemus and he says
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."


It seems to me that Jesus is chiding Nicodemus for not understanding the concept of the new birth. He seems to imply that the Old Testament makes this clear. Can you tell me where in the Old Testament the new birth is talked about? Verse 10 seems to suggest that Jesus is saying Nicodemus should have known this.

 

[pinacled]

Excellent conversation in oil.
A strength of forgiveness as I was taught 3s and 4s is important when in the way.
I noticed how mosheh asked for forgiveness twice here.
While in verse 11 a promise of redemption is given with deliverance from evil. Then with further reading there is mention of three days.

Shemot(names or words)
Then the Lord said, “If they do not believe you or pay attention to the first sign, they may believe the second. 9 But if they do not believe these two signs or listen to you, take some water from the Nile and pour it on the dry ground. The water you take from the river will become blood on the ground.”

10 Moses said to the Lord, “Pardon your servant, Lord. I have never been eloquent, neither in the past nor since you have spoken to your servant. I am slow of speech and tongue.”

11 The Lord said to him, “Who gave human beings their mouths? Who makes them deaf or mute? Who gives them sight or makes them blind? Is it not I, the Lord? 12 Now go; I will help you speak and will teach you what to say.”

13 But Moses said, “Pardon your servant, Lord. Please send someone else.”

 

[pinacled]

Excellent conversation in oil.
A strength of forgiveness as I was taught 3s and 4s is important when in the way.
I noticed how mosheh asked for forgiveness twice here.
While in verse 11 a promise of redemption is given with deliverance from evil. Then with further reading there is mention of three days.

Shemot(names or words)
Then the Lord said, “If they do not believe you or pay attention to the first sign, they may believe the second. 9 But if they do not believe these two signs or listen to you, take some water from the Nile and pour it on the dry ground. The water you take from the river will become blood on the ground.”

10 Moses said to the Lord, “Pardon your servant, Lord. I have never been eloquent, neither in the past nor since you have spoken to your servant. I am slow of speech and tongue.”

11 The Lord said to him, “Who gave human beings their mouths? Who makes them deaf or mute? Who gives them sight or makes them blind? Is it not I, the Lord? 12 Now go; I will help you speak and will teach you what to say.”

13 But Moses said, “Pardon your servant, Lord. Please send someone else.”

Yeshayahu(isaiah)names

No weapon formed against you shall prosper,
And every tongue which rises against you in judgment
You shall condemn.
This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord,
And their righteousness is from Me,”
Says the Lord.

 

[Lamb]

In John 3:10-13 Jesus is speaking with Nicodemus and he says
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."


It seems to me that Jesus is chiding Nicodemus for not understanding the concept of the new birth. He seems to imply that the Old Testament makes this clear. Can you tell me where in the Old Testament the new birth is talked about? Verse 10 seems to suggest that Jesus is saying Nicodemus should have known this.

I don't think there is one particular verse that we can go to in the Old Testament that fits exactly what Jesus suggests. At least not the way we have it written out for us in our versions of the Old Testament. We can see in various spots though about the spirit being poured out in Joel 2.

 

[MennoSota]

We need to see what Jesus and Nicodemus are saying to understand Jesus response to Nicodemus.

John 3:3-11
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but youdo not receive our testimony.

The dialogue seems to hinge on this phrase:
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
In the Hebrew scripture we can see multiple incidents of the Spirit filling a person and empowering them, but that isn't being born again.
Here, Jesus is asking how Nicodemus cannot see how physical birth relates to spiritual birth. In both instances there must be a conception that results in life. Just as the union of man and woman may result in the birth of a child, so the union of God's spirit with man's spirit results in a new "reconciliation" so that the covenant God had with Adam, before the fall, is restored and made whole. Jesus is telling Nicodemus a new concept, but Jesus wonders why Nicodemus cannot grasp the analogy.

 

[NewCreation435]

I don't think there is one particular verse that we can go to in the Old Testament that fits exactly what Jesus suggests. At least not the way we have it written out for us in our versions of the Old Testament. We can see in various spots though about the spirit being poured out in Joel 2.

David Guzik has an interesting commentary on this at this site
https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/guzik_david/StudyGuide2017-Jhn/Jhn-3.cfm?a=1000003

Regarding Nicodemus' question Guzik writes
How can a man be born when he is old? In His description of new birth, Jesus recalled a familiar theme from Old Testament promises of the New Covenant (Deuteronomy 30:1-6, Jeremiah 23:1-8, Jeremiah 31:31-34, Jeremiah 32:37-41, Ezekiel 11:16-20, Ezekiel 36:16-28, Ezekiel 37:11-14, 37:21-28). These passages essentially made three promises in the New Covenant:

· The gathering of Israel.
· The cleansing and spiritual transformation of God’s people.
· The reign of the Messiah over Israel and the whole world."

Most of these bible references seem to refer to passages where God talks about giving his people a "new heart" towards him or a transformation of their spirit.

 

[NewCreation435]

We need to see what Jesus and Nicodemus are saying to understand Jesus response to Nicodemus.

The dialogue seems to hinge on this phrase:
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
In the Hebrew scripture we can see multiple incidents of the Spirit filling a person and empowering them, but that isn't being born again.
Here, Jesus is asking how Nicodemus cannot see how physical birth relates to spiritual birth. In both instances there must be a conception that results in life. Just as the union of man and woman may result in the birth of a child, so the union of God's spirit with man's spirit results in a new "reconciliation" so that the covenant God had with Adam, before the fall, is restored and made whole. Jesus is telling Nicodemus a new concept, but Jesus wonders why Nicodemus cannot grasp the analogy.

Yes, it is usually a temporary filling of the Spirit sometimes for a specific action that the person is taking. But, it isn't a indwelling like it is on and after pentecost

 

[pinacled]

While considering how all things are possible with God. I imagine our Lord chiding a student for lack of understanding of two signs given to mosheh. I believe the Lord of Host is speaking of two of the known three high Holy Days, pesach(water) and shavuot shalom(spirit).

Blessings Always