The Lord's supper; For Jews only?

[Albion]

My clarity was fine. I suspect that you struggle with differentiating between Israel the nation and Israel the people of the promise (which are the elect of God from all nations and tongues).

Possibly it's all those assumptions that damage the messages you mean to send.

 

[MennoSota]

Possibly it's all those assumptions that damage the messages you mean to send.

So stop assuming and read what I write as it is.

 

[Albion]

Doing that is precisely what you objected to.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Since there is good evidence from the Gospel according to saint John that the last supper was not a 'seder' does it not follow that it is not a specifically Jewish ceremonial and sacrificial meal?

 

[George]

I agree with the comment about the Great Commission, I think that even though the Last Supper took place around Passover, the focus is the sacrifice of Christ and remembering Him in His Body and Blood.

 

[pinacled]

What is your position regarding the Gospel according to saint John? What do you make of the passages I posted?

John 13:1 Before the festival of the Passover, Jesus, knowing that his hour had come to pass from this world to the Father, having loved those who were his in the world, loved them to the end.

John 18:28 They then led Jesus from the house of Caiaphas to the Praetorium. It was now morning. They did not go into the Praetorium themselves to avoid becoming defiled and unable to eat the Passover.

John 18:39 But according to a custom of yours I should release one prisoner at the Passover; would you like me, then, to release for you the king of the Jews?'​

If Jesus is in Pilate's hands before the Passover meal then the Lord's supper cannot be the Passover meal.

They had very likely foregone the pesach in order to prosecute the Lord, and opted to remain unclean until pesach sheni.
And so this would be what is being mentioned by yochanon(john
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/470865/jewish/Pesach-Sheni.htm

 

[TurtleHare]

Can't have been the seder since he took the cup after supper and well you know the rest of the verse and that means that he was institutionalizing something different from the seder meal but something also that the seder was foreshadowing all those years past.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Can't have been the seder since he took the cup after supper and well you know the rest of the verse and that means that he was institutionalizing something different from the seder meal but something also that the seder was foreshadowing all those years past.

People like to believe things despite what the evidence says. When they have a firm enough conviction about what they believe - for example, that the Lord's supper is a seder meal - then the evidence will be denied when it contradicts the conviction. The passages from the Gospel according to saint John make it hard to believe that the meal was a seder. The observation that you made also makes it hard to see it as a seder but conviction may override evidence in this case.

 

[pinacled]

People like to believe things despite what the evidence says. When they have a firm enough conviction about what they believe - for example, that the Lord's supper is a seder meal - then the evidence will be denied when it contradicts the conviction. The passages from the Gospel according to saint John make it hard to believe that the meal was a seder. The observation that you made also makes it hard to see it as a seder but conviction may override evidence in this case.

Sorry,
But i am having difficulty with what you are trying to communicate. It seems to me that you are implying that Yeshua( Jesus was not crucified on the day of pesach/passover.
There by with reason of deduction it appears if you are also informing the readers here that the Roman Catholic authorities teach that Jesus is not the Passover lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.

If this is your position.
Well,
That would explain a few things that you are implying.

I hope you haven't sworn any oaths.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Sorry,
But i am having difficulty with what you are trying to communicate. It seems to me that you are implying that Yeshua( Jesus was not crucified on the day of pesach/passover.
There by with reason of deduction it appears if you are also informing the readers here that the Roman Catholic authorities teach that Jesus is not the Passover lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.

If this is your position.
Well,
That would explain a few things that you are implying.

I hope you haven't sworn any oaths.

What I did communicate is that the Last supper was not a seder meal. The Last supper was not the Passover meal in which the Passover lamb was consumed. The Gospel according to saint John has Jesus arrested before the Passover lamb is sacrificed and the Last supper was eaten before Jesus was arrested therefore the Last supper cannot have been the meal in which Israel's people were to eat the lamb sacrificed for Passover because the lamb was sacrificed before the seder meal was eaten. The Gospel according to saint Matthew presents Jesus as dying at the time that the Passover lamb was sacrificed in the temple (at the ninth hour). -

Matthew 27:45-50 45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani? that is, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? 47 And some of the bystanders, hearing it, said, This man is calling Elijah. 48 And one of them at once ran and took a sponge, filled it with sour wine, and put it on a reed and gave it to him to drink. 49 But the others said, Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to save him. 50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit. ​

So the Gospels present Jesus as God's Passover lamb sacrificed (crucified and dead) at the time that the Passover lamb was killed in accord with the Law of Moses.

 

[pinacled]

What I did communicate is that the Last supper was not a seder meal. The Last supper was not the Passover meal in which the Passover lamb was consumed. The Gospel according to saint John has Jesus arrested before the Passover lamb is sacrificed and the Last supper was eaten before Jesus was arrested therefore the Last supper cannot have been the meal in which Israel's people were to eat the lamb sacrificed for Passover because the lamb was sacrificed before the seder meal was eaten. The Gospel according to saint Matthew presents Jesus as dying at the time that the Passover lamb was sacrificed in the temple (at the ninth hour). -

Matthew 27:45-50 45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani? that is, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? 47 And some of the bystanders, hearing it, said, This man is calling Elijah. 48 And one of them at once ran and took a sponge, filled it with sour wine, and put it on a reed and gave it to him to drink. 49 But the others said, Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to save him. 50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit. ​

So the Gospels present Jesus as God's Passover lamb sacrificed (crucified and dead) at the time that the Passover lamb was killed in accord with the Law of Moses.

So, in summary you are saying Yeshua is not the Passover Lamb.

Yikes.
Ok,
You sound like you are calling Yeshua a liar when He said, "This is my body!"..

 

[MoreCoffee]

So, in summary you are saying Yeshua is not the Passover Lamb.

Yikes.
Ok,
You sound like you are calling Yeshua a liar when He said, "This is my body!"..

I do not see how you reach that conclusion when what I wrote is that Jesus died at the time the Passover Lamb was sacrificed because he is our Passover. But maybe you can explain the way you reasoned from what I wrote to the conclusion that you stated?

 

[pinacled]

I do not see how you reach that conclusion when what I wrote is that Jesus died at the time the Passover Lamb was sacrificed because he is our Passover. But maybe you can explain the way you reasoned from what I wrote to the conclusion that you stated?

Everyone can read for them selves.
Its not like a disciple would visit the Lords tomb three days after being buried.
Actually they would of waited 7 days before offering a traditional gift.
That would be on the 21st day the tomb is found to be empty.
Then as the Lord instructed, "Go and tell the others where to meet me".

Where were they instructed to meet the Lord ole friend.
Please.
If you would be so kind to remind the readers here of the Fullfillment of Torah.
What day is it that the omer count begins?

Blessings Always.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I do not see how you reach that conclusion when what I wrote is that Jesus died at the time the Passover Lamb was sacrificed because he is our Passover. But maybe you can explain the way you reasoned from what I wrote to the conclusion that you stated?

Everyone can read for them selves.
Its not like a disciple would visit the Lords tomb three days after being buried.
Actually they would of waited 7 days before offering a traditional gift.
That would be on the 21st day the tomb is found to be empty.
Then as the Lord instructed, "Go and tell the others where to meet me".

Where were they instructed to meet the Lord ole friend.
Please.
If you would be so kind to remind the readers here of the Fullfillment of Torah.
What day is it that the omer count begins?

Blessings Always.

I am more confused now because I have no idea what 21 days and Torah has to do with anything I wrote.

 

[pinacled]

I am more confused now because I have no idea what 21 days and Torah has to do with anything I wrote.

You shouldn't be confused.
Yeshua died on pesach, a full moon according to Torah. Just as He said would happen. Then there is sheshivah...
Do you understand?

 

[pinacled]

I do not see how you reach that conclusion when what I wrote is that Jesus died at the time the Passover Lamb was sacrificed because he is our Passover. But maybe you can explain the way you reasoned from what I wrote to the conclusion that you stated?

Ah,
If you are saying Yeshua laid down his life on the full moon of pesach. Then I apologize for misunderstanding what you were attempting to communicate.

If you do not see the Seder for what is important then you have ignored a valuable lesson.
Healing is the children's bread.

As for Fullfillmemt of Torah, ignore the oral traditions that call Yeshua cursed.
They will have their reward shortly.

So,
More coffee.
Would you mind reading the instructions handed down to Moshe from the Lord.
Please read from
Vayikra 23;18
Present with this bread seven male lambs, each a year old and without defect, one young bull and two rams. They will be a burnt offering to the Lord, together with their grain offerings and drink offerings—a food offering, an aroma pleasing to the Lord."


What I am trying to communicate is that no child of the Lord visited the tomb before the 7 days were observed.
A traditional gift of the pure in heart that have eyes to see.

Do you understand?

 

[Albion]

The Bible seems to say that it is not so. For me, therefore, it is settled.

Besides, if those who I visited the tomb are to be described as not being good Jews for it, what difference should that make to us?

 

[Albion]

So, in summary you are saying Yeshua is not the Passover Lamb.

Yikes.
Ok,
You sound like you are calling Yeshua a liar when He said, "This is my body!"..

There isn't any connection.

 

[pinacled]

There isn't any connection.

What exactly are you saying?

If I recall correctly.
Healing is the Children's Bread.
And the seven lambs have already been offered as seven stars.
Perhaps you would be so kind enough to explain to the readers an myself what exactly two rams have to do with a new moon.
Or what a bull and heifer has to do with a full Moon.

What has not been shared at the table is manners. And I've personally ignored the lack of such here.

No one in this forum has been disrectfull.

And I am very greatfull for the courtesy of patience here.

As for Torah.
What I can tell so far. Is that more coffee holds reservations about the two traditional pesach. Which would be something like the first mikvah. Study torah at home and
Pray for those abroad so to speak.

What I find dishonest is the two traditional omer counts that clearly efficate dissolution.

It is quite clear that Pesach is to be observed during a full moon.
Yet there are so few souls that are brave enough to Look At the Royal Torah(Law) and assure others that Yeshua is innocent.
Instead I find teachers Who would dare to call Yeshua Cursed.

And this is no small matter.
No.
To threaten martyrdom and suicide on the innocent is a reckless disregard for the Truth and is unacceptable by all accounts.
A serious reconciliation is in order and if the papacy does not repent.

There will be nothing more to say about strength in forgiveness.

They have carried a burden long enough.
Its time to relent.

 

[TurtleHare]

I don't know why anyone would think that the Lord's Supper is for the Jews only when Christ died for all when he sacrificed himself for our sins on the cross and made it clear he came for the gentiles and not only the Jews.