Mother of God

[charis en excelcis]

I am a Bookkeeper of God. Am I a heretic for that or for referencing Jesus as calling all who obey, his mother?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Off topic though it is it seems that some help is needed for those who may have erroneous ideas about the meaning of veneration.

VENERATION of the saints is showing devotion and respect to Mary, the Apostles, and the martyrs, who were viewed as faithful witnesses to faith in Jesus Christ. Later, veneration was given to those who led a life of prayer and self–denial in giving witness to Christ, whose virtues were recognized and publicly proclaimed in their canonization as saints. Such veneration is often extended to the relics or remains of those recognized as saints; indeed, to many sacred objects and images. Veneration must be clearly distinguished from adoration and worship, which are due to God alone.

 

[Alithis]

Off topic though it is it seems that some help is needed for those who may have erroneous ideas about the meaning of veneration.

VENERATION of the saints is showing devotion and respect to Mary, the Apostles, and the martyrs, who were viewed as faithful witnesses to faith in Jesus Christ. Later, veneration was given to those who led a life of prayer and self–denial in giving witness to Christ, whose virtues were recognized and publicly proclaimed in their canonization as saints. Such veneration is often extended to the relics or remains of those recognized as saints; indeed, to many sacred objects and images. Veneration must be clearly distinguished from adoration and worship, which are due to God alone.

Lol ..1. Go look up the word veneration..note its similies . one is "worship".
Then. Show me in the bible only where we are instructed to follow this veneration practice.
You cannot because like so many teachings from rome ..they are not in or from the bible.

Over and over again a choice confronts you.. Follow the lord jesus only or follow rome ..you cant serve two masters.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Lol ..1. Go look up the word veneration..note its similies . one is "worship".
Then. Show me in the bible only where we are instructed to follow this veneration practice.
You cannot because like so many teachings from rome ..they are not in or from the bible.

Over and over again a choice confronts you.. Follow the lord jesus only or follow rome ..you cant serve two masters.

The definition I supplied is specifically Catholic; it is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and hence the hierarchy of the Church, mean when the word is used. Did you notice that the definition is about the veneration of saints? Anyway, what a secular worldly dictionary has to say about synonyms and antonyms really is irrelevant to the definition given.

VENERATION of the saints is showing devotion and respect to Mary, the Apostles, and the martyrs, who were viewed as faithful witnesses to faith in Jesus Christ. Later, veneration was given to those who led a life of prayer and self–denial in giving witness to Christ, whose virtues were recognized and publicly proclaimed in their canonization as saints. Such veneration is often extended to the relics or remains of those recognized as saints; indeed, to many sacred objects and images. Veneration must be clearly distinguished from adoration and worship, which are due to God alone.

Concerning what you choose to venerate or not, that is of no significance to me in this discussion. You will do as you please. I shall do as the teaching of Christ requires.

 

[Josiah]

Lol ..1. Go look up the word veneration..note its similies . one is "worship".

In English, the proper title for mayors, magistrates and a host of other officials. Does that mean that the English are polythesits, that they believe mayors are divine?

Here's what my dictionary says for the word "worship"
1. A person of importance
2. Reverence for a divine being
3. A form of religious expression
4. Admiration or esteem for a person or object

Show me in the bible only where we are instructed to follow this veneration practice.

"All generations will call me blessed."




.

 

[Lamb]

IMO, it wholly depends on what you mean by "venerated." My dictionary gives as the primary meaning: "to respect, to regard with respect." The Bible says that all generations will regard her as "blessed" and I generally think it is a good thing to respect Mary and Joseph as the parents and guardians of Jesus - the people Jesus "honored" (another word for "venerate")


IMO, the theology here is simple: Jesus may correctly be referred to as GOD (as the Bible itself does), and the woman who bore Jesus was named Mary. Thus, Mary is the mother of God. Now, she's not the mother of the Trinity or the Origin of God - but then those titles don't exist (they would be heresy). Unless one denies the divinity of Jesus (and thus Scripture) and/or denies that Mary bore Him (and thus Scripture) then.... yup.... Mary is the mother of God (although I like the Eastern form of the title better, "Theotokos" ... God Bearer).



I hope that helps....



- Josiah

Yes yes yes!

That's what it's about yet people panic and think that others are worshipping her. Yet, none here on the site have claimed to be doing that.

 

[Hammster]

Yes yes yes!

That's what it's about yet people panic and think that others are worshipping her. Yet, none here on the site have claimed to be doing that.

Catholics deny that they do so. But they do in practice.

 

[charis en excelcis]

Off topic though it is it seems that some help is needed for those who may have erroneous ideas about the meaning of veneration.

VENERATION of the saints is showing devotion and respect to Mary, the Apostles, and the martyrs, who were viewed as faithful witnesses to faith in Jesus Christ. Later, veneration was given to those who led a life of prayer and self–denial in giving witness to Christ, whose virtues were recognized and publicly proclaimed in their canonization as saints. Such veneration is often extended to the relics or remains of those recognized as saints; indeed, to many sacred objects and images. Veneration must be clearly distinguished from adoration and worship, which are due to God alone.

I draw your attention to the bronze serpent, a relic of Saint Moses, which became an object of worship and thus had to be destroyed. It is fascinating how veneration extends to relics, yet no connection is made with idolatry. Likewise titles. The piling up of titles becomes de facto idolatry. It is interesting to me that in the entire New Testament, not one act of veneration is made to Mary, nor any of the high titles.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes yes yes!

That's what it's about yet people panic and think that others are worshipping her. Yet, none here on the site have claimed to be doing that.

I reckon some folk want to be scandalised by what Catholics do, think, and say. I guess Lutherans get a similar reception whenever Lutherans say something even slightly Catholic-like in vocabulary or tone.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I draw your attention to the bronze serpent, a relic of Saint Moses, which became an object of worship and thus had to be destroyed. It is fascinating how veneration extends to relics, yet no connection is made with idolatry. Likewise titles. The piling up of titles becomes de facto idolatry. It is interesting to me that in the entire New Testament, not one act of veneration is made to Mary, nor any of the high titles.

I fear that no matter what I write, do, believe or pray it will be tainted in your responses with the name 'idolatry'.

 

[charis en excelcis]

I fear that no matter what I write, do, believe or pray it will be tainted in your responses with the name 'idolatry'.

Do not fear, I do not believe you to be an idolater.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Do not fear, I do not believe you to be an idolater.

Very gratifying, I think

But at this stage in our conversations I would not care if you did.

 

[Lamb]

Catholics deny that they do so. But they do in practice.

Not all Catholics worship Mary so you might want to reconsider that. My husband is Catholic. He does not worship Mary nor does his family.

 

[Lamb]

I reckon some folk want to be scandalised by what Catholics do, think, and say. I guess Lutherans get a similar reception whenever Lutherans say something even slightly Catholic-like in vocabulary or tone.

You are correct. Lutherans are often seen as the aliens of the Christian world.

 

[Hammster]

Not all Catholics worship Mary so you might want to reconsider that. My husband is Catholic. He does not worship Mary nor does his family.

It was more in reference to the Church. I'm sure not all Catholics abide by all of the teachings.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The Catholic Church abominates any adoration given to any creature.

 

[Hammster]

The Catholic Church abominates any adoration given to any creature.

What about statures of creatures?

 

[Lamb]

It was more in reference to the Church. I'm sure not all Catholics abide by all of the teachings.

One of the former priests at my husband's old church should have been Lutheran Even my Lutheran pastors told him that! LOL

 

[MoreCoffee]

What about statures of creatures?

No faithful Catholic adores images, sculptures, or any other creature.

 

[Hammster]

No faithful Catholic adores images, sculptures, or any other creature.

Define "adore". Does it include devotion?