When is our name written in the book of life?

[MennoSota]

Read Hebrews 1 and see.

Hebrews 1:1 In times past, God spoke in partial and various ways to our ancestors through the prophets; 2 in these last days, he spoke to us through a son, whom he made heir of all things and through whom he created the universe, ​

The books does not say it is addressed "To the Hebrews" or "To the Hebrew Christians". Maybe it was preached in Corinth by Apollos.

Tradition says it was "To the Hebrews" are you relying on Tradition for context?

MC, if you read my earlier responses, you would know I already addressed the issue of who the author is addressing in the letter. I pointed to chapter 1. I then asked what the issue was that inspired the author to spend the entire letter presenting how Jesus is greater than. We also observe that the author brings up many aspects of Jewish culture and temple practice while then comparing it to faith. In order to understand the few phrases you pick out, you have to see the whole letter in its entirety.
So, I ask you, is the whole of Hebrews presenting that adopted children in the family of God can lose their adoption and become slaves to sin once again?

 

[MoreCoffee]

MC, if you read my earlier responses, you would know I already addressed the issue of who the author is addressing in the letter. I pointed to chapter 1. I then asked what the issue was that inspired the author to spend the entire letter presenting how Jesus is greater than. We also observe that the author brings up many aspects of Jewish culture and temple practice while then comparing it to faith. In order to understand the few phrases you pick out, you have to see the whole letter in its entirety.
So, I ask you, is the whole of Hebrews presenting that adopted children in the family of God can lose their adoption and become slaves to sin once again?

Your argument is not convincing. The letter is like a sermon rather than a letter. It does not have an address like Paul's letters do. It doesn't say "Paul an apostle of Christ Jesus to the saint in ..." and the claims in your post suggest that the book is in fact addressed to Hebrew Christians - presumably in Jerusalem or another location in Judea. But that is speculation, unless you accept tradition. Tradition does support the idea that the book is addressed to priestly Jews and Levites who have become Christians and are under persecution or other pressure to revert to Judaism. Do you accept tradition? Or are you going to claim that the book itself says it is written to Hebrews. And even if you accept tradition it does not follow that the discussion of loss of faith and the gifts of God that follows from that loss of faith is suddenly irrelevant to the question of why names can be blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life as the scriptures say in the Apocalypse.

 

[MennoSota]

Your argument is not convincing. The letter is like a sermon rather than a letter. It does not have an address like Paul's letters do. It doesn't say "Paul an apostle of Christ Jesus to the saint in ..." and the claims in your post suggest that the book is in fact addressed to Hebrew Christians - presumably in Jerusalem or another location in Judea. But that is speculation, unless you accept tradition. Tradition does support the idea that the book is addressed to priestly Jews and Levites who have become Christians and are under persecution or other pressure to revert to Judaism. Do you accept tradition? Or are you going to claim that the book itself says it is written to Hebrews. And even if you accept tradition it does not follow that the discussion of loss of faith and the gifts of God that follows from that loss of faith is suddenly irrelevant to the question of why names can be blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life as the scriptures say in the Apocalypse.

Our differences seem to be that you assume everyone in a church is saved. Did every follower that Jesus had have faith, or were most just curious followers with no faith?
What we know about the people being written to is that some were thinking of going back to the legalism of the temple system. We know that they became followers of the Way. We don't know if they all had faith.
Read farther in Hebrews to understand what faith is. Read Hebrews 12 and notice the legacy of faith and who the author...and finisher of faith is.
MC, you are free to cherry pick verses and ignore the whole, but don't imagine that such a method makes your interpretation legitimate.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Our differences seem to be that you assume everyone in a church is saved.

This is an absurd claim on your part. It is untrue and you cannot point to any post that I authored that says it or implies it.

Did every follower that Jesus had have faith, or were most just curious followers with no faith?

What has this to do with whose name is in the Lamb's book of life and what has it to do with the statement in holy scripture that names may be blotted out from the book of life?

Let them be blotted out of the book of the living; let them not be enrolled among the righteous. (Psalms 69:28)

The victor will thus be dressed in white, and I will never erase his name from the book of life but will acknowledge his name in the presence of my Father and of his angels. (Revelation 3:5)

Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. (Exodus 32:32-33)

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Revelation 22:19)

What we know about the people being written to is that some were thinking of going back to the legalism of the temple system. We know that they became followers of the Way. We don't know if they all had faith.
Read farther in Hebrews to understand what faith is. Read Hebrews 12 and notice the legacy of faith and who the author...and finisher of faith is.
MC, you are free to cherry pick verses and ignore the whole, but don't imagine that such a method makes your interpretation legitimate.

 

[MennoSota]

This is an absurd claim on your part. It is untrue and you cannot point to any post that I authored that says it or implies it.



What has this to do with whose name is in the Lamb's book of life and what has it to do with the statement in holy scripture that names may be blotted out from the book of life?

Let them be blotted out of the book of the living; let them not be enrolled among the righteous. (Psalms 69:28)

The victor will thus be dressed in white, and I will never erase his name from the book of life but will acknowledge his name in the presence of my Father and of his angels. (Revelation 3:5)

Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. (Exodus 32:32-33)

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Revelation 22:19)

Your entire posting from Hebrews has nothing to do with the book of life. You are attempting to create a doctrine where a person loses his sonship by merit or lack thereof, using narrow verses as your prooftext.
The scripture says that the elect were chosen before the foundation of the world and that the elect are predestined to be adopted. Jesus confirms this in multiple passages. Yet...you promote the opposite.

 

[RichWh1]

MC is in a bind and doesn’t know how to get out!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MoreCoffee]

Your entire posting from Hebrews has nothing to do with the book of life. You are attempting to create a doctrine where a person loses his sonship by merit or lack thereof, using narrow verses as your prooftext.
The scripture says that the elect were chosen before the foundation of the world and that the elect are predestined to be adopted. Jesus confirms this in multiple passages. Yet...you promote the opposite.

Hebrews 6 has a lot to do with falling from graces given by God.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore, let us leave the elementary teaching about Christ, and move forward, to a more advanced knowledge, without laying, again, the foundation, that is: turning away from dead works, faith in God, 2 the teaching about baptisms and laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead and the final judgement. 3 This is what we shall do, God permitting. 4 In any case, it would be impossible to renew, again, through penance, those who have once been enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and received the Holy Spirit, 5 tasted the beauty of the word of God, and the wonders of the supernatural world. 6 If, in spite of this, they have ceased to believe, and have fallen away, it is impossible to move them a second time to repentance, when they are crucifying, on their own ac count, the Son of God, and spurning him publicly. 7 Soil that drinks the rain falling continually on it and produces profitable grass for those who till it, receives the blessings of God, 8 but the soil that produces thorns and bushes is poor soil, and in danger of being cursed. In the end, it will be burned.​

But you've sidestepped the passages I mentioned.

Let them be blotted out of the book of the living; let them not be enrolled among the righteous. (Psalms 69:28)

The victor will thus be dressed in white, and I will never erase his name from the book of life but will acknowledge his name in the presence of my Father and of his angels. (Revelation 3:5)

Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. (Exodus 32:32-33)

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Revelation 22:19)​

All of which do mention erasure from the book of life or taking away a name from the book of life. That is what was under discussion.

 

[MoreCoffee]

MC is in a bind and doesn’t know how to get out!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Perhaps you have a credible exegesis of the passages I mentioned?

Let them be blotted out of the book of the living; let them not be enrolled among the righteous. (Psalms 69:28)

The victor will thus be dressed in white, and I will never erase his name from the book of life but will acknowledge his name in the presence of my Father and of his angels. (Revelation 3:5)

Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. (Exodus 32:32-33)

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Revelation 22:19)

 

[MennoSota]

Hebrews 6 has a lot to do with falling from graces given by God.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore, let us leave the elementary teaching about Christ, and move forward, to a more advanced knowledge, without laying, again, the foundation, that is: turning away from dead works, faith in God, 2 the teaching about baptisms and laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead and the final judgement. 3 This is what we shall do, God permitting. 4 In any case, it would be impossible to renew, again, through penance, those who have once been enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and received the Holy Spirit, 5 tasted the beauty of the word of God, and the wonders of the supernatural world. 6 If, in spite of this, they have ceased to believe, and have fallen away, it is impossible to move them a second time to repentance, when they are crucifying, on their own ac count, the Son of God, and spurning him publicly. 7 Soil that drinks the rain falling continually on it and produces profitable grass for those who till it, receives the blessings of God, 8 but the soil that produces thorns and bushes is poor soil, and in danger of being cursed. In the end, it will be burned.​

But you've sidestepped the passages I mentioned.

Let them be blotted out of the book of the living; let them not be enrolled among the righteous. (Psalms 69:28)

The victor will thus be dressed in white, and I will never erase his name from the book of life but will acknowledge his name in the presence of my Father and of his angels. (Revelation 3:5)

Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. (Exodus 32:32-33)

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Revelation 22:19)​

All of which do mention erasure from the book of life or taking away a name from the book of life. That is what was under discussion.

Notice how you hone in on one verse in a larger context and miss the whole of each passage. If you looked at the whole, you would see your assertion fall apart.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Notice how you hone in on one verse in a larger context and miss the whole of each passage. If you looked at the whole, you would see your assertion fall apart.

Your stated claim is not true. The passages I quoted are shown below, they total 12 verses, one is a passage of 8 verses length. But if all you intend to write is a meta-commentary about what I verses I quote but without dealing with the verses and all the while avoiding what the passages from the holy scriptures say then okay. I'll move on to new and more productive things and you can keep doing what you're doing.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore, let us leave the elementary teaching about Christ, and move forward, to a more advanced knowledge, without laying, again, the foundation, that is: turning away from dead works, faith in God, 2 the teaching about baptisms and laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead and the final judgement. 3 This is what we shall do, God permitting. 4 In any case, it would be impossible to renew, again, through penance, those who have once been enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and received the Holy Spirit, 5 tasted the beauty of the word of God, and the wonders of the supernatural world. 6 If, in spite of this, they have ceased to believe, and have fallen away, it is impossible to move them a second time to repentance, when they are crucifying, on their own ac count, the Son of God, and spurning him publicly. 7 Soil that drinks the rain falling continually on it and produces profitable grass for those who till it, receives the blessings of God, 8 but the soil that produces thorns and bushes is poor soil, and in danger of being cursed. In the end, it will be burned.

Let them be blotted out of the book of the living; let them not be enrolled among the righteous. (Psalms 69:28)

The victor will thus be dressed in white, and I will never erase his name from the book of life but will acknowledge his name in the presence of my Father and of his angels. (Revelation 3:5)

Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. (Exodus 32:32-33)

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Revelation 22:19)

All of which do mention erasure from the book of life or taking away a name from the book of life. That is what was under discussion.

 

[MennoSota]

Your stated claim is not true. The passages I quoted are shown below, they total 12 verses, one is a passage of 8 verses length. But if all you intend to write is a meta-commentary about what I verses I quote but without dealing with the verses and all the while avoiding what the passages from the holy scriptures say then okay. I'll move on to new and more productive things and you can keep doing what you're doing.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore, let us leave the elementary teaching about Christ, and move forward, to a more advanced knowledge, without laying, again, the foundation, that is: turning away from dead works, faith in God, 2 the teaching about baptisms and laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead and the final judgement. 3 This is what we shall do, God permitting. 4 In any case, it would be impossible to renew, again, through penance, those who have once been enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and received the Holy Spirit, 5 tasted the beauty of the word of God, and the wonders of the supernatural world. 6 If, in spite of this, they have ceased to believe, and have fallen away, it is impossible to move them a second time to repentance, when they are crucifying, on their own ac count, the Son of God, and spurning him publicly. 7 Soil that drinks the rain falling continually on it and produces profitable grass for those who till it, receives the blessings of God, 8 but the soil that produces thorns and bushes is poor soil, and in danger of being cursed. In the end, it will be burned.

Let them be blotted out of the book of the living; let them not be enrolled among the righteous. (Psalms 69:28)

The victor will thus be dressed in white, and I will never erase his name from the book of life but will acknowledge his name in the presence of my Father and of his angels. (Revelation 3:5)

Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. (Exodus 32:32-33)

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Revelation 22:19)

All of which do mention erasure from the book of life or taking away a name from the book of life. That is what was under discussion.

We have already dealt with Hebrews 6 elsewhere.

 

[RichWh1]

Falling from grace doesn’t mean losing salvation.

Born again Christians are children of God, adopted by God. How does one lose the status of son or daughter?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MennoSota]

I suggest you read Hebrews 12, which is the summary of the letter. Tell me if the writer thinks that you can "unmerit" your inheritance.

12 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. 4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons?

“My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
nor be weary when reproved by him.
6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and chastises every son whom he receives.”

7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

12 Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, 13 and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. 14 Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; 16 that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. 17 For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears.

18 For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest 19 and the sound of a trumpet and a voice whose words made the hearers beg that no further messages be spoken to them. 20 For they could not endure the order that was given, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned.” 21 Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I tremble with fear.” 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

25 See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven. 26 At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.” 27 This phrase, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of things that are shaken—that is, things that have been made—in order that the things that cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe, 29 for our God is a consuming fire.

 

[MennoSota]

Falling from grace doesn’t mean losing salvation.

Born again Christians are children of God, adopted by God. How does one lose the status of son or daughter?




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Great question?
If we did not merit adoption, can we unmerit the adoption? Did God cast out Abraham when he sired a child through Hagar? Did Abraham receive his promise by his works or by God's good pleasure?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Falling from grace doesn’t mean losing salvation.

Born again Christians are children of God, adopted by God. How does one lose the status of son or daughter?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

One does not lose status. One loses life. That is why some sins are called "deadly". Remember the passage in 1 John about "sins unto death"?

1 John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.​

One does not lose status as a child of God one loses life. Like Eve and Adam lost endless life when they sinned. They did not cease being God's children, they ceased living. That is why death entered the world when they sinned.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one person sin entered the world, and through sin, death, and thus death came to all, inasmuch as all sinned — 13 for up to the time of the law, sin was in the world, though sin is not accounted when there is no law. 14 But death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who did not sin after the pattern of the trespass of Adam, who is the type of the one who was to come.​

Natural death is the consequence of death through sin. That is why death has a sting to it. As saint Paul wrote "the sting of death is sin". A child can die. And Hebrews 6 tells how that happens

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore, let us leave behind the basic teaching about Christ and advance to maturity, without laying the foundation all over again: repentance from dead works and faith in God, 2 instruction about baptisms[a] and laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead and eternal judgement. 3 And we shall do this, if only God permits. 4 For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift and shared in the holy Spirit 5 and tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to bring them to repentance again, since they are re-crucifying the Son of God for themselves[d] and holding him up to contempt. 7 Ground that has absorbed the rain falling upon it repeatedly and brings forth crops useful to those for whom it is cultivated receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is rejected; it will soon be cursed and finally burned.​

And that is how a person's name is blotted from the Lamb's book of life.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man do away of the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away the part of him from the book of life, and from the holy city, and from these things that be written in this book.​

And the warning is not in Revelation alone nor is it a new thing unheard of before God warned of the same thing in the Hebrew scriptures

Exodus 32:21 And Moses said to Aaron, “What did this people do to you that you have brought a great sin upon them?” 22 And Aaron said, “Let not the anger of my lord burn hot; you know the people, that they are set on evil. 23 For they said to me, ‘Make us gods, who shall go before us; as for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.’ 24 And I said to them, ‘Let any who have gold take it off’; so they gave it to me, and I threw it into the fire, and there came out this calf.”

25 And when Moses saw that the people had broken loose (for Aaron had let them break loose, to their shame among their enemies), 26 then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, “Who is on the Lord’s side? Come to me.” And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together to him. 27 And he said to them, “Thus says the Lord God of Israel, ‘Put every man his sword on his side, and go to and fro from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.’” 28 And the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses; and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men. 29 And Moses said, “Today you have ordained yourselves[a] for the service of the Lord, each one at the cost of his son and of his brother, that he may bestow a blessing upon you this day.”

30 On the morrow Moses said to the people, “You have sinned a great sin. And now I will go up to the Lord; perhaps I can make atonement for your sin.” 31 So Moses returned to the Lord and said, “Alas, this people have sinned a great sin; they have made for themselves gods of gold. 32 But now, if thou wilt forgive their sin—and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.” 33 But the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. 34 But now go, lead the people to the place of which I have spoken to you; behold, my angel shall go before you. Nevertheless, in the day when I visit, I will visit their sin upon them.”​

There is a theme all through the holy scriptures warning that certain sins do in fact kill and the death that they inflict can lead to erasure from the book of life.

 

[MennoSota]

One does not lose status. One loses life. That is why some sins are called "deadly". Remember the passage in 1 John about "sins unto death"?

1 John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.​

One does not lose status as a child of God one loses life. Like Eve and Adam lost endless life when they sinned. They did not cease being God's children, they ceased living. That is why death entered the world when they sinned.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one person sin entered the world, and through sin, death, and thus death came to all, inasmuch as all sinned — 13 for up to the time of the law, sin was in the world, though sin is not accounted when there is no law. 14 But death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who did not sin after the pattern of the trespass of Adam, who is the type of the one who was to come.​

Natural death is the consequence of death through sin. That is why death has a sting to it. As saint Paul wrote "the sting of death is sin". A child can die. And Hebrews 6 tells how that happens

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore, let us leave behind the basic teaching about Christ and advance to maturity, without laying the foundation all over again: repentance from dead works and faith in God, 2 instruction about baptisms[a] and laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead and eternal judgement. 3 And we shall do this, if only God permits. 4 For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift and shared in the holy Spirit 5 and tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to bring them to repentance again, since they are re-crucifying the Son of God for themselves[d] and holding him up to contempt. 7 Ground that has absorbed the rain falling upon it repeatedly and brings forth crops useful to those for whom it is cultivated receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is rejected; it will soon be cursed and finally burned.​

And that is how a person's name is blotted from the Lamb's book of life.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man do away of the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away the part of him from the book of life, and from the holy city, and from these things that be written in this book.​

And the warning is not in Revelation alone nor is it a new thing unheard of before God warned of the same thing in the Hebrew scriptures

Exodus 32:21 And Moses said to Aaron, “What did this people do to you that you have brought a great sin upon them?” 22 And Aaron said, “Let not the anger of my lord burn hot; you know the people, that they are set on evil. 23 For they said to me, ‘Make us gods, who shall go before us; as for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.’ 24 And I said to them, ‘Let any who have gold take it off’; so they gave it to me, and I threw it into the fire, and there came out this calf.”

25 And when Moses saw that the people had broken loose (for Aaron had let them break loose, to their shame among their enemies), 26 then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, “Who is on the Lord’s side? Come to me.” And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together to him. 27 And he said to them, “Thus says the Lord God of Israel, ‘Put every man his sword on his side, and go to and fro from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.’” 28 And the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses; and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men. 29 And Moses said, “Today you have ordained yourselves[a] for the service of the Lord, each one at the cost of his son and of his brother, that he may bestow a blessing upon you this day.”

30 On the morrow Moses said to the people, “You have sinned a great sin. And now I will go up to the Lord; perhaps I can make atonement for your sin.” 31 So Moses returned to the Lord and said, “Alas, this people have sinned a great sin; they have made for themselves gods of gold. 32 But now, if thou wilt forgive their sin—and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.” 33 But the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. 34 But now go, lead the people to the place of which I have spoken to you; behold, my angel shall go before you. Nevertheless, in the day when I visit, I will visit their sin upon them.”​

There is a theme all through the holy scriptures warning that certain sins do in fact kill and the death that they inflict can lead to erasure from the book of life.

Do we live under the law or under grace? Do we live under the Mosaic Covenant or the New Covenant?
MC, you have contrived an illusion and call it real.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Do we live under the law or under grace? Do we live under the Mosaic Covenant or the New Covenant?
MC, you have contrived an illusion and call it real.

Honestly, do you read the posts that you reply to? Really? Try again, what you rote above gets a complete fail grade.

Falling from grace doesn’t mean losing salvation.

Born again Christians are children of God, adopted by God. How does one lose the status of son or daughter?

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One does not lose status. One loses life. That is why some sins are called "deadly". Remember the passage in 1 John about "sins unto death"?

1 John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.​

One does not lose status as a child of God one loses life. Like Eve and Adam lost endless life when they sinned. They did not cease being God's children, they ceased living. That is why death entered the world when they sinned.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one person sin entered the world, and through sin, death, and thus death came to all, inasmuch as all sinned — 13 for up to the time of the law, sin was in the world, though sin is not accounted when there is no law. 14 But death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who did not sin after the pattern of the trespass of Adam, who is the type of the one who was to come.​

Natural death is the consequence of death through sin. That is why death has a sting to it. As saint Paul wrote "the sting of death is sin". A child can die. And Hebrews 6 tells how that happens

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore, let us leave behind the basic teaching about Christ and advance to maturity, without laying the foundation all over again: repentance from dead works and faith in God, 2 instruction about baptisms[a] and laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead and eternal judgement. 3 And we shall do this, if only God permits. 4 For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift and shared in the holy Spirit 5 and tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to bring them to repentance again, since they are re-crucifying the Son of God for themselves[d] and holding him up to contempt. 7 Ground that has absorbed the rain falling upon it repeatedly and brings forth crops useful to those for whom it is cultivated receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is rejected; it will soon be cursed and finally burned.​

And that is how a person's name is blotted from the Lamb's book of life.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man do away of the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away the part of him from the book of life, and from the holy city, and from these things that be written in this book.​

And the warning is not in Revelation alone nor is it a new thing unheard of before God warned of the same thing in the Hebrew scriptures

Exodus 32:21 And Moses said to Aaron, “What did this people do to you that you have brought a great sin upon them?” 22 And Aaron said, “Let not the anger of my lord burn hot; you know the people, that they are set on evil. 23 For they said to me, ‘Make us gods, who shall go before us; as for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.’ 24 And I said to them, ‘Let any who have gold take it off’; so they gave it to me, and I threw it into the fire, and there came out this calf.”

25 And when Moses saw that the people had broken loose (for Aaron had let them break loose, to their shame among their enemies), 26 then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, “Who is on the Lord’s side? Come to me.” And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together to him. 27 And he said to them, “Thus says the Lord God of Israel, ‘Put every man his sword on his side, and go to and fro from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.’” 28 And the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses; and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men. 29 And Moses said, “Today you have ordained yourselves[a] for the service of the Lord, each one at the cost of his son and of his brother, that he may bestow a blessing upon you this day.”

30 On the morrow Moses said to the people, “You have sinned a great sin. And now I will go up to the Lord; perhaps I can make atonement for your sin.” 31 So Moses returned to the Lord and said, “Alas, this people have sinned a great sin; they have made for themselves gods of gold. 32 But now, if thou wilt forgive their sin—and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.” 33 But the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. 34 But now go, lead the people to the place of which I have spoken to you; behold, my angel shall go before you. Nevertheless, in the day when I visit, I will visit their sin upon them.”​

There is a theme all through the holy scriptures warning that certain sins do in fact kill and the death that they inflict can lead to erasure from the book of life.

 

[MennoSota]

I read it again. Here's my reply.

Honestly, do you read the posts that you reply to? Really? Try again, what you rote above gets a complete fail grade.



One does not lose status. One loses life. That is why some sins are called "deadly". Remember the passage in 1 John about "sins unto death"?

1 John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.​

One does not lose status as a child of God one loses life. Like Eve and Adam lost endless life when they sinned. They did not cease being God's children, they ceased living. That is why death entered the world when they sinned.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one person sin entered the world, and through sin, death, and thus death came to all, inasmuch as all sinned — 13 for up to the time of the law, sin was in the world, though sin is not accounted when there is no law. 14 But death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who did not sin after the pattern of the trespass of Adam, who is the type of the one who was to come.​

Natural death is the consequence of death through sin. That is why death has a sting to it. As saint Paul wrote "the sting of death is sin". A child can die. And Hebrews 6 tells how that happens

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore, let us leave behind the basic teaching about Christ and advance to maturity, without laying the foundation all over again: repentance from dead works and faith in God, 2 instruction about baptisms[a] and laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead and eternal judgement. 3 And we shall do this, if only God permits. 4 For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift and shared in the holy Spirit 5 and tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to bring them to repentance again, since they are re-crucifying the Son of God for themselves[d] and holding him up to contempt. 7 Ground that has absorbed the rain falling upon it repeatedly and brings forth crops useful to those for whom it is cultivated receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is rejected; it will soon be cursed and finally burned.​

And that is how a person's name is blotted from the Lamb's book of life.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man do away of the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away the part of him from the book of life, and from the holy city, and from these things that be written in this book.​

And the warning is not in Revelation alone nor is it a new thing unheard of before God warned of the same thing in the Hebrew scriptures

Exodus 32:21 And Moses said to Aaron, “What did this people do to you that you have brought a great sin upon them?” 22 And Aaron said, “Let not the anger of my lord burn hot; you know the people, that they are set on evil. 23 For they said to me, ‘Make us gods, who shall go before us; as for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.’ 24 And I said to them, ‘Let any who have gold take it off’; so they gave it to me, and I threw it into the fire, and there came out this calf.”

25 And when Moses saw that the people had broken loose (for Aaron had let them break loose, to their shame among their enemies), 26 then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, “Who is on the Lord’s side? Come to me.” And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together to him. 27 And he said to them, “Thus says the Lord God of Israel, ‘Put every man his sword on his side, and go to and fro from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.’” 28 And the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses; and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men. 29 And Moses said, “Today you have ordained yourselves[a] for the service of the Lord, each one at the cost of his son and of his brother, that he may bestow a blessing upon you this day.”

30 On the morrow Moses said to the people, “You have sinned a great sin. And now I will go up to the Lord; perhaps I can make atonement for your sin.” 31 So Moses returned to the Lord and said, “Alas, this people have sinned a great sin; they have made for themselves gods of gold. 32 But now, if thou wilt forgive their sin—and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.” 33 But the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. 34 But now go, lead the people to the place of which I have spoken to you; behold, my angel shall go before you. Nevertheless, in the day when I visit, I will visit their sin upon them.”​

There is a theme all through the holy scriptures warning that certain sins do in fact kill and the death that they inflict can lead to erasure from the book of life.

Do we live under the law or under grace? Do we live under the Mosaic Covenant or the New Covenant?

MC, you have contrived an illusion and call it real.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I read it again. Here's my reply.Do we live under the law or under grace? Do we live under the Mosaic Covenant or the New Covenant?

MC, you have contrived an illusion and call it real.

"Do we live under the law ...?" Is 1 John 5:16-17 the law? No? Then you have the answer to your question. Did you read that passage?

"Do we live under the law or under grace?" Is Romans 5:12-14 old testament? No? Then you have the answer to your question. Did you read that passage?

"Do we live under the Mosaic Covenant or the New Covenant?" Is Hebrews 6:1-8 Mosaic covenant or new covenant? New? Then you have the answer to your question. Did you read that passage?

"Do we live under the Mosaic Covenant or the New Covenant?" Is Revelation 22:19 Mosaic covenant or new covenant? New? Then you have the answer to your question. Did you read that passage?

Did you understand that Exodus 32:21-34 is illustrative of a theme all through the holy scriptures warning that certain sins do in fact kill and the death that they inflict can lead to erasure from the book of life? No?

Okay, try again.

 

[MennoSota]

"Do we live under the law ...?" Is 1 John 5:16-17 the law? No? Then you have the answer to your question. Did you read that passage?

"Do we live under the law or under grace?" Is Romans 5:12-14 old testament? No? Then you have the answer to your question. Did you read that passage?

"Do we live under the Mosaic Covenant or the New Covenant?" Is Hebrews 6:1-8 Mosaic covenant or new covenant? New? Then you have the answer to your question. Did you read that passage?

"Do we live under the Mosaic Covenant or the New Covenant?" Is Revelation 22:19 Mosaic covenant or new covenant? New? Then you have the answer to your question. Did you read that passage?

Did you understand that Exodus 32:21-34 is illustrative of a theme all through the holy scriptures warning that certain sins do in fact kill and the death that they inflict can lead to erasure from the book of life? No?

Okay, try again.

I read all the passages. My question remains the same. The problem is not the Bible passages. The problem is your attempt to live under the law rather than grace.
Will you acknowledge that God's judgment of us will not be based upon the law, but instead will be based solely upon Christ's propitiatiary atonement for the elect?