Mother of God

MoreCoffee

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This seems to be a hugely controversial term for Mary, and I'm honestly not sure why.

My question has nothing to do with that.

I thought it was a straightforward question.

Your first statement is correct; your question does have nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
 

Hammster

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Your first statement is correct; your question does have nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Sure it does. But you are obviously going to avoid answering.

Perhaps the OP will.
 

MoreCoffee

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MoreCoffee

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I know he's not big on engaging. But I'm really interested to know why the title is such a big deal.

I did not mean that.
 

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MARY - MOTHER OF CHRIST, MOTHER OF THE CHURCH

Since the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honoured as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer.... She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ' ... since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head.""Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."​

MARY'S MOTHERHOOD WITH REGARD TO THE CHURCH

Wholly united with her Son . . .

Mary's role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. "This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ's virginal conception up to his death";it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion:

Thus the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith, and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son unto the cross. There she stood, in keeping with the divine plan, enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother's heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her: to be given, by the same Christ Jesus dying on the cross, as a mother to his disciple, with these words: "Woman, behold your son."

After her Son's Ascension, Mary "aided the beginnings of the Church by her prayers."In her association with the apostles and several women, "we also see Mary by her prayers imploring the gift of the Spirit, who had already overshadowed her in the Annunciation."​

. . . also in her Assumption​

"Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:

In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.​

. . . she is our Mother in the order of grace

By her complete adherence to the Father's will, to his Son's redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church's model of faith and charity. Thus she is a "pre-eminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church"; indeed, she is the "exemplary realization" (typus) of the Church.

Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Saviour's work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."

"This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfilment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."

"Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it." "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."​
 

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MARY - MOTHER OF CHRIST, MOTHER OF THE CHURCH

Since the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honoured as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer.... She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ' ... since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head.""Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."​

MARY'S MOTHERHOOD WITH REGARD TO THE CHURCH

Wholly united with her Son . . .

Mary's role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. "This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ's virginal conception up to his death";it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion:

Thus the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith, and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son unto the cross. There she stood, in keeping with the divine plan, enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother's heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her: to be given, by the same Christ Jesus dying on the cross, as a mother to his disciple, with these words: "Woman, behold your son."

After her Son's Ascension, Mary "aided the beginnings of the Church by her prayers."In her association with the apostles and several women, "we also see Mary by her prayers imploring the gift of the Spirit, who had already overshadowed her in the Annunciation."​

. . . also in her Assumption​

"Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:

In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.​

. . . she is our Mother in the order of grace

By her complete adherence to the Father's will, to his Son's redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church's model of faith and charity. Thus she is a "pre-eminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church"; indeed, she is the "exemplary realization" (typus) of the Church.

Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Saviour's work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."

"This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfilment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."

"Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it." "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."​

Why do you get to post off topic?
 

MoreCoffee

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veneration & redemption are not this thread's topic.
I think that most protestants would see the title of Mother of God as part of a system of veneration. The question is why the title is controversial, the issue of veneration is interwoven with the topic.
 

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veneration & redemption are not this thread's topic.

My question has nothing to do with either. Straightforward, simple question.
 

Hammster

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MARY - MOTHER OF CHRIST, MOTHER OF THE CHURCH

Since the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honoured as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer.... She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ' ... since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head.""Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."​

MARY'S MOTHERHOOD WITH REGARD TO THE CHURCH

Wholly united with her Son . . .

Mary's role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. "This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ's virginal conception up to his death";it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion:

Thus the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith, and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son unto the cross. There she stood, in keeping with the divine plan, enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother's heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her: to be given, by the same Christ Jesus dying on the cross, as a mother to his disciple, with these words: "Woman, behold your son."

After her Son's Ascension, Mary "aided the beginnings of the Church by her prayers."In her association with the apostles and several women, "we also see Mary by her prayers imploring the gift of the Spirit, who had already overshadowed her in the Annunciation."​

. . . also in her Assumption​

"Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:

In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.​

. . . she is our Mother in the order of grace

By her complete adherence to the Father's will, to his Son's redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church's model of faith and charity. Thus she is a "pre-eminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church"; indeed, she is the "exemplary realization" (typus) of the Church.

Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Saviour's work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."

"This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfilment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."

"Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it." "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."​

All that, and still nothing scriptural.
 

MoreCoffee

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I think that most protestants would see the title of Mother of God as part of a system of veneration. The question is why the title is controversial, the issue of veneration is interwoven with the topic.

I would not dare speak for "most" protestants. But if some protestants think that "mother of God" is a title of veneration for Blessed Mary then they are mistaken, it is a term of worship and adoration of Christ just as mother of Love hope of Christians and all the others are. It is the one who is born as God in the flesh who elevates Mary while Mary does not elevate God because no creature can.
 

charis en excelcis

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I would not dare speak for "most" protestants. But if some protestants think that "mother of God" is a title of veneration for Blessed Mary then they are mistaken, it is a term of worship and adoration of Christ just as mother of Love hope of Christians and all the others are. It is the one who is born as God in the flesh who elevates Mary while Mary does not elevate God because no creature can.
I can safely say that the veneration of Mary is then indeed part of this discussion. If Mary was not venerated, would she have this title? I think the two are inseparable.
 

charis en excelcis

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I forgot to add, I am a Bookkeeper of God.
 

MoreCoffee

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I can safely say that the veneration of Mary is then indeed part of this discussion. If Mary was not venerated, would she have this title? I think the two are inseparable.

Then it is good that you are not a Catholic Christian because you'd be in heresy if you were and would likely be excommunicated for the link you make in your statements.
 

Josiah

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I can safely say that the veneration of Mary is then indeed part of this discussion. If Mary was not venerated, would she have this title? I think the two are inseparable.

IMO, it wholly depends on what you mean by "venerated." My dictionary gives as the primary meaning: "to respect, to regard with respect." The Bible says that all generations will regard her as "blessed" and I generally think it is a good thing to respect Mary and Joseph as the parents and guardians of Jesus - the people Jesus "honored" (another word for "venerate")


IMO, the theology here is simple: Jesus may correctly be referred to as GOD (as the Bible itself does), and the woman who bore Jesus was named Mary. Thus, Mary is the mother of God. Now, she's not the mother of the Trinity or the Origin of God - but then those titles don't exist (they would be heresy). Unless one denies the divinity of Jesus (and thus Scripture) and/or denies that Mary bore Him (and thus Scripture) then.... yup.... Mary is the mother of God (although I like the Eastern form of the title better, "Theotokos" ... God Bearer).



I hope that helps....



- Josiah
 

MoreCoffee

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Bede is venerable :)
 
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