Mother of God

George

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This seems to be a hugely controversial term for Mary, and I'm honestly not sure why.
 

MoreCoffee

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This seems to be a hugely controversial term for Mary, and I'm honestly not sure why.

My dear brother George, calling the Blessed Virgin Mary "the mother of God" upsets some folk because they believe that using that title for her implies that she existed before God did. Such people think of motherhood in temporal terms only and appear to think that the idea that God could have a mother implies that God came into existence when his mother gave birth to him. It appears that thinking along those lines the idea of the incarnation gets lost or compromised so that Blessed Mary becomes the mother of the Lord's human nature alone, as if the Lord were not one person but some kind of composite made up of a human nature of flesh & blood born of Blessed Mary and an eternal divine nature that entered the flesh & blood human nature of the Lord some time after conception or maybe after birth; some have testified to me that the Lord Jesus Christ was not God the Son until after his baptism when he was "declared to be the Son of God" (Romans 1:4). These ideas all stem for serious errors in doctrine concerning the incarnation of the Lord. Those who hold to them cannot, in good conscience, affirm the Nicene Creed nor the Creed of Chalcedon. In past times Christians would recognise these ideas as heresy but today many do not. But for the benefit of those reading along here is a summary of the doctrine of the incarnation of the Lord Jesus Christ:
... It is necessary to eternal salvation that the faithful also believe correctly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. The right faith therefore is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man.

He is God of the substance of the Father begotten before the worlds, and He is man of the substance of His mother born in the world; perfect God, perfect man subsisting of a reasoning soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, inferior to the Father as touching His Manhood.

Who although He be God and Man yet He is not two but one Christ; one however not by conversion of the GodHead in the flesh, but by taking of the Manhood in God; one altogether not by confusion of substance but by unity of Person. For as the reasoning soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ.

Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again from the dead, ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, from whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life eternal, and they who indeed have done evil into eternal fire.​
 

Josiah

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This seems to be a hugely controversial term for Mary, and I'm honestly not sure why.

Because some CHANGE it. "Mary - the Mother of the Trinity" or "Mary - the Origin of God." They replace the title with those things (which NO ONE uses), then (rightfully) rejects the substitutions.

Now, I admit, I like the Eastern expression of this theology better ("Theotokos" literally God Bearer), I think it's less open to confusion, but it's the same point.


Yes..... I think a LOT of "controversy" and ENDLESS, PERPETUAL "debates" at some forums are.... well..... misunderstandings (or even strawmen). When I was Catholic, I grew weary of the "Catholics worship Mary" "Catholics threw out one of the Ten Commandments" and other things, now, as a Protestant, I get SO tired of the gross misrepesentations of Sola Scripture and Sola Fide, the accusation that Protestants think that good works are bad, that they ripped books out of the Bible..... but George, this stuff has been going round and round and round for CENTURIES - obviously serving some purpose for someone - and there's not a thing in heaven or hell we can do about it. I KEEP trying to answer it (at the FEW websites that permitted it - most don't) but it's pretty much a waste of time. Urban myths (often perpetuated with hate and repudiation) live hard and long. We have enough stuff (some of it big) that we genuinely disagree on without wasting SO MUCH time and energy on myths and strawmen. But to quote one of my Dads' favorite sayings, "What is, is.'



- Josiah

- Josiah
 

Lamb

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This seems to be a hugely controversial term for Mary, and I'm honestly not sure why.

Yeah, it's used as a swear word.

Okay, kidding aside, people tend to forget we have ONE God who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Mary was Jesus' (God the Son) mother so yes, she is the Mother of God.
 

Josiah

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Yeah, it's used as a swear word.

Okay, kidding aside, people tend to forget we have ONE God who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Mary was Jesus' (God the Son) mother so yes, she is the Mother of God.

It really is simple..... and I think FEW actually disagree with the THEOLOGY. It's just people CHANGE it to: Mary - Mother of the Trinity or Mary - Creator of God, and RIGHTLY disagree with those subsitutions.
 

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Yeah, it's used as a swear word.

Okay, kidding aside, people tend to forget we have ONE God who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Mary was Jesus' (God the Son) mother so yes, she is the Mother of God.

in truth - she was the woman who bore forth the word of god in the flesh .but the bible so clearly states .. the child within is OF THE HOLY GHOST .. not of mary .

thus she is not the mother of GOD but the mother of his fleshly form . and the word of God himself it is written is brought into subjection to the father .. for the word does not itself speak but that which the father speaks comes forth .
she is not divine
she is not born sinless
she is not a perpetual virgin
she is not a mediator between man and God
and a statue of her that is honoured is none less then idolatry .

what is interesting is the inane drive to defend and glorify this person is
NOT lord
NOT saviour
NOT mediator
NOT intercessor
and NOT glorified

these actions of endlessly attempting to elevate a mere created being and glorify it above its station are in themselves acts of reverence and worship to one OTHER THAN the LORD JESUS ..
and whenever i see man or devil constantly trying to glorify one other then The LORD JESUS -who alone is worthy of ALL glory and honour and riches and power - i know it is not by the spirit of God they do so - because the lord Jesus whose word is absolute truth said .. he ( the Holy Spirit ) will glorify ME .
 

Romanos

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in truth - she was the woman who bore forth the word of god in the flesh .but the bible so clearly states .. the child within is OF THE HOLY GHOST .. not of mary .

thus she is not the mother of GOD but the mother of his fleshly form . and the word of God himself it is written is brought into subjection to the father .. for the word does not itself speak but that which the father speaks comes forth .
she is not divine
she is not born sinless
she is not a perpetual virgin
she is not a mediator between man and God
and a statue of her that is honoured is none less then idolatry .

what is interesting is the inane drive to defend and glorify this person is
NOT lord
NOT saviour
NOT mediator
NOT intercessor
and NOT glorified

these actions of endlessly attempting to elevate a mere created being and glorify it above its station are in themselves acts of reverence and worship to one OTHER THAN the LORD JESUS ..
and whenever i see man or devil constantly trying to glorify one other then The LORD JESUS -who alone is worthy of ALL glory and honour and riches and power - i know it is not by the spirit of God they do so - because the lord Jesus whose word is absolute truth said .. he ( the Holy Spirit ) will glorify ME .

But as Christ was fully God as He was fully man, why would it be an issue to call her the Mother of God? I'm not just asking this not to debate but I'm interested in hearing both sides.
 

Lamb

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Galatians 4:4 "But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,..."
 

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But as Christ was fully God as He was fully man, why would it be an issue to call her the Mother of God? I'm not just asking this not to debate but I'm interested in hearing both sides.

Galatians 4:4 "But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,..."

@ lammchen -if the child in the womb is placed in the womb by some one else .. some one with the ability to speak and have his words form into a being of flesh and then be born forth from that womb then , then that woman is the vehicle by which that child was delivered into the world .. and no more (though blessed to be chosen as such a vehicle ) and the reason that particular woman was chosen was by virtue of the fact she was betrothed to Joseph from the line of David .. in other words ANY woman of that lineage who was betrothed to Joseph would have been chosen . there is no other attribute involved .that which was foretold .. was also fulfilled.

@ romanos : He was fully God .. and -although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

this sinless man of flesh & blood ,born of the holy Ghost is the being mary was mother to in as much as he was born forth from her womb .
the danger here is complex because the glorification of mary is linked so intrinsically with the other female false deities beginning with nimrod's wife .. in fact it is tha origins of al the images of the mother holding the Godchild and the terminology of the "queen of heaven and mother of God "

everything to do with the lord Jesus and HIS church (not romes church) is in the bible in both the old and the new testaments .. one foretells the other fulfils & confirms .
there is ZERo bible foundation for this terminology of "mother of God "to be used .
the bible is our measuring ruler . our focus point by which we may test all teachings . if it is not in full agreement with the direct unambiguous word of God .. then it is not OF god for he cannot contradict himself nor lie . the moment we accept teachings or terminologies which originate from outside the holy Scriptures and cannot be found in agreement with them.. we have only grave error left .
thus .. where in the bible is this terminology foretold ..fulfilled and confirmed ? It is Not .

nor is there any biblical precedent to Glorify mary in ANY such manner what so ever . that she is remembered and will be remembered as blessed for the honour of being the one that bore the word of God into the world is all that was ever said . NEver is there any directive to then elevate her, glorify her venerate her (which does mean worship), pray to her have faith in her non biblical abilities .. .ALL these things originate from outside the word of God and cannot be found in it and are in opposition to the word of God .

the same thing is said in the scripture of the woman who broke the perfume jar and anointed his feet .that she will be remembered and it will be told what she did .. - yet none venerate her .

again - all these things that are being done come from rome and detract glory from the only one who is worthy to receive ALL glory - the lamb of God the Lord JESUS .

ouh that all would be as hasty to give glory to him alone as they are to hold up mary who cannot save cannot deliver cannot grant everlasting life .when we venerate the created as having abilities equal to the creator .. we IDOLIZE the created and dishonor God who made us all .
 

charis en excelcis

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I am a bit ambivalent about this. Calling Mary, perhaps the greatest woman in human history, "Mother of God" strikes me in the same way as me being the Bookkeeper of God.
 

MoreCoffee

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I am a bit ambivalent about this. Calling Mary, perhaps the greatest woman in human history, "Mother of God" strikes me in the same way as me being the Bookkeeper of God.

The difference is that holy scripture exalts Blessed Mary but you are not named in it.
 

Alithis

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The difference is that holy scripture exalts Blessed Mary but you are not named in it.

it doesn't exalt her as anything but blessed to be a chosen vessel and remembered ..

it exalts abraham more ,isaac more, jacob more ,joseph more, moses More Joshua more David more solomon more all these are spoken of recorded more then mary .

and of course the lord Jesus is the only one WE are to exalt .

and of course we have the things the bible does NOT say to do

-pray to her
-ask her to pray for you (which is praying to her that she will pray for you
-hail her (which is worshipping)
-venerate her (which is also worshipping )
-do chants of repetitious prayers to her ..or chants of repetitious prayers of any kind
- make images of her (violates the 2nd commandment- and calling them icons ..giving them a name change does not excuse the action )
the more i look into rome's teachings the more i must leave the bible behind and forget what it says ..because the more opposed i see them to be .
the bible teaches None of these things in regard to mary .

ouhh that your were as KEEN to exalt the Lord Jesus who ALONE IS WORTHY of ALL praise and ALL glory
 

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Acts 1:14 ESV
All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.

Jesus is God. We can't forget that.
 

Alithis

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Acts 1:14 ESV
All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.

Jesus is God. We can't forget that.

we are not forgetting that .
but i invite you to go and do an objective study of the term "mother of god " which is a title never ever given in the bible .

start with the mother of nimrod ..observe the imagery and look deeper into the origins of the terminology and observe how the sun and mon orhippers did not convert but merely adapted biblical names to their deities ,
honestly ,do an objective search and look into it .

then return the the bible and se where such things are in it -there is no communion between theses titles and the bible .

perpetual virginity
divine nature of created mary
purgatory
office of pope
queen of heaven

the symbols icons and idols of pagan sun ,moon and star worshipers have merely been renamed but neve repented of -

And yes .i make a distinction between those that have a sincerity of claim to be a believer in the lord Jesus .. and the teachings of Rome . but due to the glaring disagreement between rome's teachings on the above things and the bible ..
any one who is a sincere believer in the lord JESUS cannot continue to follow him with their whole heart without casting of rome's teachings .. as long as they adhere to rome's teachings thy can never follow the lord Jesus with A whole undivided heart.. because the two teachings are in opposition .. and you cannot serve two masters .you just cannot.the lord jesus said so.

i presently enjoy my liberty in saying such things .. in times past (on legal and religious record ) the rcc put people to death for saying the things im saying -and sorrowfully there is coming a day when they shall do so again .
 

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in truth - she was the woman who bore forth the word of god in the flesh .but the bible so clearly states .. the child within is OF THE HOLY GHOST .. not of mary .

thus she is not the mother of GOD but the mother of his fleshly form . and the word of God himself it is written is brought into subjection to the father .. for the word does not itself speak but that which the father speaks comes forth .
she is not divine
she is not born sinless
she is not a perpetual virgin
she is not a mediator between man and God
and a statue of her that is honoured is none less then idolatry .

what is interesting is the inane drive to defend and glorify this person is
NOT lord
NOT saviour
NOT mediator
NOT intercessor
and NOT glorified

these actions of endlessly attempting to elevate a mere created being and glorify it above its station are in themselves acts of reverence and worship to one OTHER THAN the LORD JESUS ..
and whenever i see man or devil constantly trying to glorify one other then The LORD JESUS -who alone is worthy of ALL glory and honour and riches and power - i know it is not by the spirit of God they do so - because the lord Jesus whose word is absolute truth said .. he ( the Holy Spirit ) will glorify ME .

Hear, hear.
 

Hammster

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Pope Benedict XV wrote in 1918: "To such an extent did Mary suffer and almost die with her suffering and dying Son; to such extent did she surrender her maternal rights over her Son for man's salvation, and immolated him - insofar as she could in order to appease the justice of God, that we might rightly say she redeemed the human race together with Christ" .


This is utter nonsense.
 

MoreCoffee

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This seems to be a hugely controversial term for Mary, and I'm honestly not sure why.

If you review the posts in this thread by Alithis, charis en excelcis, and Hammster you will have the explanation of why it is controversial.
 
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