Can heaven keep up with technology?

[MoreCoffee]

Centuries ago people imagined heaven as an idealised Earth of their times. IN our times people imagine heaven as an idealised version of Earth in our times. Will there be good internet in heaven, will I have access to enormous band width and a few billion wholesome TV channels to entertain me. Will I have robot servants and great swimming pools. Will I get a TARDIS and other space ships so I can explore the created universe? And will my pet be with me in heaven!?

Is heaven as we imagine it just a game devoid of any real meaning other than wish fulfilment?

 

[faramir.pete]

Centuries ago people imagined heaven as an idealised Earth of their times. IN our times people imagine heaven as an idealised version of Earth in our times. Will there be good internet in heaven, will I have access to enormous band width and a few billion wholesome TV channels to entertain me. Will I have robot servants and great swimming pools. Will I get a TARDIS and other space ships so I can explore the created universe? And will my pet be with me in heaven!?

Is heaven as we imagine it just a game devoid of any real meaning other than wish fulfilment?

Now that is a good question, and it feeds into the subject of a book I recently read: All Things New by John Eldredge.

The view the author expresses is that when God says in Revelation Behold I make all things new, He actually means ALL things. Heaven will be everything we love now, but renewed!

It takes a bit of thinking about and getting your mind about.

But there was one comment John E made in the book and that is that one rarely hears a sermon on what heaven will be like. We often here about what is wrong here and now, and sometimes will here a sermon on the fires of hell, but I can not actually recall hearing a sermon or talk on what heaven will be for us.

It is a sobering thought that most Christians are not thinking about heaven and what they expect there, but are simply trying to get there! Why? Where is our HOPE? Who robbed us of the hope of heaven?


Pete from Peterborough UK

 

[NewCreation435]

The Bible actually says that we can't even imagine or consider what God has in store for us.

9 However, as it is written:

“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—

10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2:9-10a.

 

[Josiah]

The Bible actually says that we can't even imagine or consider what God has in store for us.

9 However, as it is written:

“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—

10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2:9-10a.

Ahha.


God is not subject to what we can image. Or to what our puny brains can comprehend.

 

[tango]

If heaven is a place with plentiful bandwidth and even more things that relentlessly beep at me to get my attention, I'm starting to lose interest.

I don't think we can know what heaven will be like, other than that we will be in the presence of God for eternity. If that isn't good enough for us, if we feel we need a beeping doodad to somehow top up the perfection of heaven, maybe the problem is a little closer to home.

 

[tango]

Now that is a good question, and it feeds into the subject of a book I recently read: All Things New by John Eldredge.

The view the author expresses is that when God says in Revelation Behold I make all things new, He actually means ALL things. Heaven will be everything we love now, but renewed!

It takes a bit of thinking about and getting your mind about.

I'm not sure you can really pull that conclusion out of the text. "I make all things new" doesn't seem like a statement we should interpret as meaning we'll have better cellphones that we don't struggle to read in bright sunlight, that don't suddenly drop their signal and that have everlasting batteries. I see it more as a statement that God is talking about the new heaven and the new earth, where the earth isn't darkened by sin and sickness and death.

I used to quite like John Eldredge as an author but from some of his stuff I got to wondering whether he'd gone off the rails. Certainly I recall having concerns about his use of words like "heart" and kludging literal and metaphorical hearts. Stasi Eldredge wrote some stuff aimed at women that seems downright kooky to me.

But there was one comment John E made in the book and that is that one rarely hears a sermon on what heaven will be like. We often here about what is wrong here and now, and sometimes will here a sermon on the fires of hell, but I can not actually recall hearing a sermon or talk on what heaven will be for us.

Probably because we can't know for sure just what heaven will be like. We can speculate but there is limited value in a sermon that is little more than speculation. Likewise we hear about the dangers of hell but typically don't hear endless speculation about just what it will be like in hell because we don't know for sure.

It is a sobering thought that most Christians are not thinking about heaven and what they expect there, but are simply trying to get there! Why? Where is our HOPE? Who robbed us of the hope of heaven?

Does it matter what we expect heaven to be? Truth be told we shouldn't even be "trying to get there" because we don't get their by our own efforts. I can spend my life hoping for what heaven might be like and get it wrong - it seems like a better use of time to encourage other people to explore this Jesus guy who offers a ticket to heaven in the first place. No more sin, no more death, no more sorrow, no more tears, that alone makes it sound like a pretty good place to be. Oh yes, and it's the place where God is, which kinda helps.

I can't help thinking that either heaven is everything we hoped for and then some, or the process of death and resurrection will be such that we are happy with whatever it is.

 

[faramir.pete]

I'm not sure you can really pull that conclusion out of the text. "I make all things new" doesn't seem like a statement we should interpret as meaning we'll have better cellphones that we don't struggle to read in bright sunlight, that don't suddenly drop their signal and that have everlasting batteries. I see it more as a statement that God is talking about the new heaven and the new earth, where the earth isn't darkened by sin and sickness and death.

I used to quite like John Eldredge as an author but from some of his stuff I got to wondering whether he'd gone off the rails. Certainly I recall having concerns about his use of words like "heart" and kludging literal and metaphorical hearts. Stasi Eldredge wrote some stuff aimed at women that seems downright kooky to me.



Probably because we can't know for sure just what heaven will be like. We can speculate but there is limited value in a sermon that is little more than speculation. Likewise we hear about the dangers of hell but typically don't hear endless speculation about just what it will be like in hell because we don't know for sure.



Does it matter what we expect heaven to be? Truth be told we shouldn't even be "trying to get there" because we don't get their by our own efforts. I can spend my life hoping for what heaven might be like and get it wrong - it seems like a better use of time to encourage other people to explore this Jesus guy who offers a ticket to heaven in the first place. No more sin, no more death, no more sorrow, no more tears, that alone makes it sound like a pretty good place to be. Oh yes, and it's the place where God is, which kinda helps.

I can't help thinking that either heaven is everything we hoped for and then some, or the process of death and resurrection will be such that we are happy with whatever it is.

Brother, my post was not meant to be an accolade for John Eldredge, although I do respect and agree with most of what he says and writes. My point was simply that we have lost something in our post modern world where we either dissect the words to see if they match exactly with our interpretation of the bible that we choose to follow, or else we totally ignore the biblical text altogether and go off to some high tech equivalent of nirvana, where only what I think has any relevance.

Personally I like the idea of All things new. Perhaps that is me off in my own nirvana


Pete from Peterborough UK

 

[tango]

Brother, my post was not meant to be an accolade for John Eldredge, although I do respect and agree with most of what he says and writes.

Sure, I didn't mean to imply you were an Eldredge fanboy or anything, just that I went from a similar stance to yours (where I'd seek out his books) to regarding him with more suspicion. Not to say he's intentionally harmful, just that I came to the point where I wasn't sure if what he was writing was as theologically sound as I once thought.

My point was simply that we have lost something in our post modern world where we either dissect the words to see if they match exactly with our interpretation of the bible that we choose to follow, or else we totally ignore the biblical text altogether and go off to some high tech equivalent of nirvana, where only what I think has any relevance.

... and in that I think I agree with you. There is a depressing tendency to decide what we think (whatever the topic) and then hunt for the verses in the Bible that support it. If something needs to be pulled out of context, if Scripture needs to be sliced and diced like some kind of ransom note, no matter as long as it gets the result we needed. It's just one reason I sometimes like to come up with a viewpoint I find distasteful and try to support it with Scripture - if I can find Scriptural support for it without butchering the context then perhaps I need to rethink its merits even if I find it distasteful.

I often think that true nirvana would have no technology in it at all because we wouldn't need it. Just think of the difference between standing on an overlook enjoying the vista, and looking at the same view on a screen.

Personally I like the idea of All things new. Perhaps that is me off in my own nirvana

I like the idea of all things new, just not the idea that everywere you go some idiot will have a cellphone beeping relentlessly

A friend of mine floated one idea of heaven that I quite like. It's 100% speculation with not a single shred of Scripture to support it, so take it for what it's worth.... anyway his idea was that maybe God would gather up a bunch of guys and show them a map with some parts missing and say something like "I never got around to mapping this bit, wanna go check it out?", and you could go explore a totally unknown area but without the dangers of ticks, snakes, bears etc.

 

[psalms 91]

Sure, I didn't mean to imply you were an Eldredge fanboy or anything, just that I went from a similar stance to yours (where I'd seek out his books) to regarding him with more suspicion. Not to say he's intentionally harmful, just that I came to the point where I wasn't sure if what he was writing was as theologically sound as I once thought.




... and in that I think I agree with you. There is a depressing tendency to decide what we think (whatever the topic) and then hunt for the verses in the Bible that support it. If something needs to be pulled out of context, if Scripture needs to be sliced and diced like some kind of ransom note, no matter as long as it gets the result we needed. It's just one reason I sometimes like to come up with a viewpoint I find distasteful and try to support it with Scripture - if I can find Scriptural support for it without butchering the context then perhaps I need to rethink its merits even if I find it distasteful.

I often think that true nirvana would have no technology in it at all because we wouldn't need it. Just think of the difference between standing on an overlook enjoying the vista, and looking at the same view on a screen.



I like the idea of all things new, just not the idea that everywere you go some idiot will have a cellphone beeping relentlessly

A friend of mine floated one idea of heaven that I quite like. It's 100% speculation with not a single shred of Scripture to support it, so take it for what it's worth.... anyway his idea was that maybe God would gather up a bunch of guys and show them a map with some parts missing and say something like "I never got around to mapping this bit, wanna go check it out?", and you could go explore a totally unknown area but without the dangers of ticks, snakes, bears etc.

God is spirit and wwe will dwell with Him so doesnt it follow that we will be spirit as well? If so and even if not I seriously doubt there will be cellphones in heaven

 

[tango]

God is spirit and wwe will dwell with Him so doesnt it follow that we will be spirit as well? If so and even if not I seriously doubt there will be cellphones in heaven

If there is a new earth as well as a new heaven I wonder if we will have physical bodies. If not, I wonder what the point of the new earth is. Perhaps we will live in an Eden-like paradise.

 

[psalms 91]

Does it not say we will rule and reign with Christ and I believe it also describes us as being able to pass through dooors as Christ did, seems to me that we will not have physical bodies as we now know them. Also new heavens and earth I suspect that when that happens it will once again be a recreation and we will be as the angels at that time

 

[tango]

Does it not say we will rule and reign with Christ and I believe it also describes us as being able to pass through dooors as Christ did, seems to me that we will not have physical bodies as we now know them. Also new heavens and earth I suspect that when that happens it will once again be a recreation and we will be as the angels at that time

We will rule and reign with Christ but that doesn't say whether or not we will have a physical body. Christ had a physical body.

I don't remember a verse about passing through doors but that's not to say it isn't there - feel free to quote chapter and verse

A key point here is that there is only so much we can know for sure. We know we will be with God for eternity and beyond that much is speculation.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The resurrection is about being clothed with a body like Christ's glorified body. Remember the passage about a seed? ! Corinthians 15.

Personally, I'd like really good internet in heaven