Justification - Part 2

[Andrew]

How many posts will it take for people to give up adding human works to their justification before the Almighty God? How long will it take for people to admit that there is nothing good within their being and that all goodness is found solely in Christ and Christ alone?
As long as people want to argue that it is "God...plus me" there will be a distinct disagreement. It can only be "God and God alone."

As long as they assume that you are against good charitable works in Jesus name as Gods workmanship they will stay on the defense... those works will not sustain justification, "it IS finished!" but again like I said, we are called to be Gods workmanship.

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[MennoSota]

As long as they assume that you are against good charitable works in Jesus name as Gods workmanship they will stay on the defense... those works will not sustain justification, "it IS finished!" but again like I said, we are called to be Gods workmanship.

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Charitable actions have nothing to do with being justified before God. Even Hitler could be kind to people. But, the human condition is corrupted nonetheless. No amount of human effort can remove this corruption. Only Christ Jesus is not corrupt. God and God alone.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Charitable actions have nothing to do with being justified before God. Even Hitler could be kind to people. But, the human condition is corrupted nonetheless. No amount of human effort can remove this corruption. Only Christ Jesus is not corrupt. God and God alone.

Then why does Paul use this language?

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.​

 

[MennoSota]

Then why does Paul use this language?

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.​

Great question. The key phrase is: "in Christ Jesus." Our justification is "in Christ Jesus" not in our selves.
As I said, we are corrupt. Paul bemoans this very fact in Romans 7 when he cries out, "Who will deliver me from this body of death." The answer is found..."in Christ Jesus."
God and God alone.

 

[Josiah]

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death..

Bingo.



In a similar sense, one might say, "There is life in them to whom God gave it and who breathe." But does that mean that our breathing is the cause of our life? Things, at times, are ASSOCIATED.. but association does not even imply causation. The LIFE the Holy Spirit GAVE us (as many here proclaimed yesterday in church, ".... we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of life...")... the faith the Spirit gave us.... the justification Jesus gave us.... yup, that's now joined with a lot of things (for example, a profound sense of humility/repentance) but that doesn't make Christianity heretical (or LUther when he affirmed it). This association does not mandate that THEREFORE we earn and achieve that life/faith/justification/Holy Spirit by our good work of repentance.

NOTE: Everyone agreed 500 years ago.... and everyone agrees now.... that the CHRISTIAN (one with justification, life, faith, Holy Spirit, love, etc.) THEREFORE is called to many things, that many things are now joined to it. We agree pretty much on what that is, we agree that God empowers and directs us in and to such (that it's synergistic), that such is processive (and not always in a stright line), that God rewards such, that the lack of such may mean the lack of justification, that the wilful rejection of such can wreck our faith and terminate justification.... Luther said that and the RCC then totally agreed, and Luther totally agreed with the RCC on all that.... that's never been the dispute and it isn't now, that had NOTHING to do with the Reformation or the dispute or the split in Christianity the RCC caused. As the RCC itself so powerfully stressed, the issue was (and is) JUSTIFICATION (in that narrow sense that is separate from what is true AFTER it) and that is the topic of this thread. What Luther/Lutherans said on JUSTIFICATION was what the RCC anathematized, condemned, repudiated and split itself over. See post # 16.




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[MoreCoffee]

It is absolutely true that there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. Yet the question is "who is in Christ Jesus"? Many say that they are. Some are absolutely confident that they are. Only God knows with certainty who is.

 

[Lamb]

It is absolutely true that there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. Yet the question is "who is in Christ Jesus"? Many say that they are. Some are absolutely confident that they are. Only God knows with certainty who is.

We can't know who else has it...but there's this thing...it's called faith. That's how I know I'm justified by Christ and am confident I'll have everlasting life since I'm in Christ Jesus.

 

[MoreCoffee]

We can't know who else has it...but there's this thing...it's called faith. That's how I know I'm justified by Christ and am confident I'll have everlasting life since I'm in Christ Jesus.

So you are confident that your faith will see you though? It isn't God's promises then. Just your confidence about your faith. Everybody can see God's promises and many claim to be confident that those promises apply to them. Time will tell. Self confidence is, according to some, a commendable thing.

 

[Lamb]

So you are confident that your faith will see you though? It isn't God's promises then. Just your confidence about your faith. Everybody can see God's promises and many claim to be confident that those promises apply to them. Time will tell. Self confidence is, according to some, a commendable thing.

We don't have faith in faith. We have faith in the Savior.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

 

[MoreCoffee]

We don't have faith in faith. We have faith in the Savior.

But you are confident that you do have faith. Confident that you have properly identified what you have as faith in Jesus Christ. Confident that it is not self deception. Confident that it is what the bible says you ought to have. YOU are confident about all that. Self confident.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

 

[Lamb]

But you are confident that you do have faith. Confident that you have properly identified what you have as faith in Jesus Christ. Confident that it is not self deception. Confident that it is what the bible says you ought to have. YOU are confident about all that. Self confident.

I'm confident I am saved because Jesus died for me. That's faith speaking about what is true. I can only know it's true because God reveals this to me by His Word.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I'm confident I am saved because Jesus died for me.

Jesus died for the sake of all. Does that mean everybody is saved? No, that would be universalism of a sort. But YOU are confident that YOU are saved. Self confident.

That's faith speaking about what is true. I can only know it's true because God reveals this to me by His Word.

God reveals to YOU that YOU are saved in "his word"? Really?

 

[Lamb]

Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[MennoSota]

It is absolutely true that there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. Yet the question is "who is in Christ Jesus"? Many say that they are. Some are absolutely confident that they are. Only God knows with certainty who is.

Agreed, so therefore God alone justifies us by Christ alone. Is that not correct?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

That passage doesn't mention you, does it?

 

[MennoSota]

But you are confident that you do have faith. Confident that you have properly identified what you have as faith in Jesus Christ. Confident that it is not self deception. Confident that it is what the bible says you ought to have. YOU are confident about all that. Self confident.

Can a person have faith if they are dead in their trespasses and sins? Who gives (generates) faith, is it man or God?

 

[Lamb]

That passage doesn't mention you, does it?

Are you disagreeing that faith comes by the Word of God as Romans 10:17 states?

 

[Pedrito]

Mark 1:14-15 [emphasis added]:
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Why did Jesus say that, if His hearers did not have the option of sensibly responding?

==============================================================================================

And don’t forget: Jesus stated of that very Gospel He was teaching at that time (i.e. before He had laid down His life):

Matthew 24:14 [emphasis added]:
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 26:13 [emphasis added]:
Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

==============================================================================================

In the light of that, we can conclude the following with confidence:

Any proposed meaning of “justification” must be demonstrably compatible with the Gospel of the kingdom that Jesus was personally proclaiming (and that He said should be being proclaimed now).

In the absence of that demonstrable compatibility, the proposed meaning has to be considered undeniably false.

==============================================================================================

One cannot help but wonder why this has not been mentioned yet.

Could it be that Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom is at odds with the contradictory "gospels" being proclaimed by people's churches now?

 

[Andrew]

Mark 1:14-15 [emphasis added]:
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Why did Jesus say that, if His hearers did not have the option of sensibly responding?

==============================================================================================

And don’t forget: Jesus stated of that very Gospel He was teaching at that time (i.e. before He had laid down His life):

Matthew 24:14 [emphasis added]:
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 26:13 [emphasis added]:
Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

==============================================================================================

In the light of that, we can conclude the following with confidence:

Any proposed meaning of “justification” must be demonstrably compatible with the Gospel of the kingdom that Jesus was personally proclaiming (and that He said should be being proclaimed now).

In the absence of that demonstrable compatibility, the proposed meaning has to be considered undeniably false.

==============================================================================================

One cannot help but wonder why this has not been mentioned yet.

Could it be that Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom is at odds with the contradictory "gospels" being proclaimed by people's churches now?

Well just to make sure I was baptised and confirmed in the Catholic church as well as baptised in Jesus name in a Pentecostal church... also I read the bible a few times so... I am golden

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[MoreCoffee]

Are you disagreeing that faith comes by the Word of God as Romans 10:17 states?

Not everybody who hears the gospel has faith. And this thread is about Justification. Your posts imply that you are confident that your faith alone apart from any works will see you through to heaven safe and sound. YOU are confident about that. Romans 10:17 does not mention Lämmchen. So YOU apply it to YOURSELF. It's self confidence. Not a revelation from God. Just YOU being confident about yourself.