The Gospel being modernized

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,283
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
No we should not change the message but we also should not use terms and words that they will not understand either, confusion will do nothing to further the kingdom and speaking down to someone they will not listen to you
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
32,653
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I remember talking to a friend decades ago about church language and he said atheists walking in the church door didn't want to hear any churchy things because it didn't make sense to them. I told him that if I went to a baseball game for the first time that I would expect to learn the language of the game. I'd have to learn what a foul ball was if I wanted to understand the game and communicate to others about it.
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,695
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I remember talking to a friend decades ago about church language and he said atheists walking in the church door didn't want to hear any churchy things because it didn't make sense to them. I told him that if I went to a baseball game for the first time that I would expect to learn the language of the game. I'd have to learn what a foul ball was if I wanted to understand the game and communicate to others about it.

That makes sense although at the same time it takes time to learn some of the more nuanced aspects of the game. Some of the rules and strategies are easy to pick up and others are a bit more obscure. A person watching a game for the first time might understand that the point of soccer is to kick the ball into the goal but won't understand the offside rule, or understand that the point of snooker is to drop the balls into the pockets but won't understand when a foul is called a miss, and so on.

I think there's also a difference based on the dynamic of the reason the visitor is in church in the first place. If I decide I want to go and watch a soccer game it's reasonable to assume that I want to enjoy the game and therefore that I want to understand what it's all about. If I'm only going because a friend won tickets and a hospitality package and didn't have anyone else to invite it's not reasonable to assume I particularly care about it - I might just be there for the free beer. Likewise if someone comes into a church as a visitor we can reasonably assume they want to know more about what the faith is about but someone visiting a church because their friend's child is being dedicated doesn't necessarily care about what the faith is all about.

I remember years ago I went to church at Christmas. At the time I wasn't a believer, I don't entirely remember why I'd even gone to church other than it was something to do with a friend. What I do remember was that the preacher spoke at such tedious length that I fell asleep in the pew, and I remember thinking that the preacher had many in the congregation who wouldn't normally be in church and so had an obvious opportunity to deliver a message that reached out to those people but chose not to.
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
32,653
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
That makes sense although at the same time it takes time to learn some of the more nuanced aspects of the game. Some of the rules and strategies are easy to pick up and others are a bit more obscure. A person watching a game for the first time might understand that the point of soccer is to kick the ball into the goal but won't understand the offside rule, or understand that the point of snooker is to drop the balls into the pockets but won't understand when a foul is called a miss, and so on.

I think there's also a difference based on the dynamic of the reason the visitor is in church in the first place. If I decide I want to go and watch a soccer game it's reasonable to assume that I want to enjoy the game and therefore that I want to understand what it's all about. If I'm only going because a friend won tickets and a hospitality package and didn't have anyone else to invite it's not reasonable to assume I particularly care about it - I might just be there for the free beer. Likewise if someone comes into a church as a visitor we can reasonably assume they want to know more about what the faith is about but someone visiting a church because their friend's child is being dedicated doesn't necessarily care about what the faith is all about.

I remember years ago I went to church at Christmas. At the time I wasn't a believer, I don't entirely remember why I'd even gone to church other than it was something to do with a friend. What I do remember was that the preacher spoke at such tedious length that I fell asleep in the pew, and I remember thinking that the preacher had many in the congregation who wouldn't normally be in church and so had an obvious opportunity to deliver a message that reached out to those people but chose not to.

God's Word can still be effective even when our minds don't want to listen ;)
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,695
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
God's Word can still be effective even when our minds don't want to listen ;)

It can be, but only if it's presented in a way that isn't so dull we fall asleep :)
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
32,653
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
It can be, but only if it's presented in a way that isn't so dull we fall asleep :)

God will awaken you when it's time...

1 Samuel 2:3-4
And ere the lamp of God went out in the temple of the Lord, where the ark of God was, and Samuel was laid down to sleep;
That the Lord called Samuel: and he answered, Here am I.
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,695
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
God will awaken you when it's time...

1 Samuel 2:3-4
And ere the lamp of God went out in the temple of the Lord, where the ark of God was, and Samuel was laid down to sleep;
That the Lord called Samuel: and he answered, Here am I.

I guess the middle of that particularly tedious sermon wasn't the time I needed to be awakened :)
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
32,653
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I guess the middle of that particularly tedious sermon wasn't the time I needed to be awakened :)

Must not have been LOL :dunno:
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
54
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
It can be, but only if it's presented in a way that isn't so dull we fall asleep :)
By God's ordained providence...you snooze.
One of the greatest revivals happened when a pastor purposed in his heart to read his sermon with no inflection in his voice and never look up to meet the eyes of the congregants. He simply prayed that God would be magnified and he would be minimized. Today his sermon is read in schools across America (often with gnashing of teeth by those who reject the gospel). In his day, the audience was struck to the heart and the Great Awakening began.
Who was the pastor? Only North America's greatest theologian...Jonathan Edwards. His sermon..."Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God."
If you have never heard or read this sermon, it should go to the top of your queue.
 
Last edited:

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,695
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I'm not familiar with that sermon, I'll look it up.

I don't actually have a problem with a presentation that isn't intended to be full of showmanship, there's a difference between a gripping message delivered with little inflection and a message that's just not very long on substance.
 
Top Bottom