Tithing Does this apply to believers today?

[NewCreation435]

I have heard preachers preach this text in Malachi 3 and apply it to believers today saying that believers today should tithe. Yet, this is in the last book of the Old Testament, hundreds of years before Christ. The New Testament seems less explicit about tithing. The New Testament believers in Acts shared everything with each other.

Here is the text from Malachi 3:8-12
8 “Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, ‘How have we robbed You?’ In tithes and [n]offerings. 9 You are cursed with a curse, for you are [o]robbing Me, the whole nation of you! 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows. 11 Then I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of the ground; nor will your vine in the field cast its grapes,” says the Lord of hosts. 12 “All the nations will call you blessed, for you shall be a delightful land,” says the Lord of hosts."

Do you believe christians are to tithe today? Does this promise apply to us today or not?

 

[psalms 91]

Has God changed? Yes they did share all they had, show me one church that does that now. So yes until people can not be greedy and do that the tithe is in effect so that Gods house is provided for.

 

[tango]

I don't believe that tithing in the sense of a strict and literal 10% is relevant today.

In the times of the 12 tribes the Levites were the priests and were not allowed to work in the conventional sense. Of course they still needed to eat, hence the tithe was to provide for them. If there are 11 tribes each giving 10% to the Levites then effectively 11 tribes have 90% and the Levites have 110% - enough to provide for them with some surplus to provide for individuals with specific needs.

In this day and age there is no reason why a pastor should not work a secular job alongside pastoring so there is no inherent need to provide for them. Of course if a church wishes to hire a pastor to fill a full-time role, in the sense that being a pastor is the individual's job, then of course the church needs to provide a salary which can (and should) only be funded by giving from within the church. If the church is unable or unwilling to give enough to fund a salary acceptable to the pastor then the church has no business expecting the pastor to forego a conventional income to pastor the church.

Furthermore, an unyielding insistence of 10% creates other issues. For the hedge fund manager making $30m giving $3m is far less of a sacrifice than for the couple making $20k to give $2k. The churches that insist on a tithe have a depressing tendency to also insist that it be given to that church, creating a sense of entitlement that is unhelpful.

In the light of what Paul said about letting each give as he purposes in his heart I think it is better than someone give 3% cheerfully than give 10% grudgingly.

If someone believes they, as individuals, should give 10% of their income then I wouldn't tell them not to. If they start telling other people that 10% is required I'd take them to task for it.

 

[tango]

Has God changed? Yes they did share all they had, show me one church that does that now. So yes until people can not be greedy and do that the tithe is in effect so that Gods house is provided for.

Asking if God has changed isn't really relevant to the question. We don't execute children for dishonoring their parents, we don't punish adulterers by stoning them to death and we don't regard eating pork and shellfish as an abomination any more.

 

[Andrew]

I have heard preachers preach this text in Malachi 3 and apply it to believers today saying that believers today should tithe. Yet, this is in the last book of the Old Testament, hundreds of years before Christ. The New Testament seems less explicit about tithing. The New Testament believers in Acts shared everything with each other.

Here is the text from Malachi 3:8-12
8 “Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, ‘How have we robbed You?’ In tithes and [n]offerings. 9 You are cursed with a curse, for you are [o]robbing Me, the whole nation of you! 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows. 11 Then I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of the ground; nor will your vine in the field cast its grapes,” says the Lord of hosts. 12 “All the nations will call you blessed, for you shall be a delightful land,” says the Lord of hosts."

Do you believe christians are to tithe today? Does this promise apply to us today or not?

I believe its necessary to tithe for AC in Texas churches, also how can a preacher preach full time without tithing?
It goes to God IMO but I don't think he wants us to break our banks either, I actually can't afford it now but I have paid a tithe or two before lol
I would if I could

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[tango]

I believe its necessary to tithe for AC in Texas churches, also how can a preacher preach full time without tithing?
It goes to God IMO but I don't think he wants us to break our banks either, I actually can't afford it now but I have paid a tithe or two before lol
I would if I could

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This is a reason why churches need to give although it doesn't necessarily specify just how much should be given to the church. If you have a church made up mostly of hedge fund managers meeting in a small space they can probably get by just fine giving less than 1% each. If you have a church made up mostly of people on low incomes it might take much more than 10% from everybody to fund a full-time pastor.

 

[Andrew]

This is a reason why churches need to give although it doesn't necessarily specify just how much should be given to the church. If you have a church made up mostly of hedge fund managers meeting in a small space they can probably get by just fine giving less than 1% each. If you have a church made up mostly of people on low incomes it might take much more than 10% from everybody to fund a full-time pastor.

Our pastor lives comfortably I suppose. He is usually at the church but gives his sermons wed nights and twice on sunday, not that it matters.
They ask for 10% but many pay much more and others none at all or less than 10%.
The great thing about the Pentecostal church I attend is that its basically just ac, a room, instruments and pa, lighting etc oh and a bath... Everyone ends up helping what they can, for instance what I lacked in tithing I made up for in ushering and helping pick up the handicap to take them to church and dropping them off.
Im upset at my job because after they allowed me to leave after my 8 hours on Wednesdays they went back on their word by ignoring to find me a replacement, leaving me hanging and staying for another 4 hours... it makes me feel like I have no control over my life... ANYWAY lol

Tithing is stressed there but for a good reason, we need a bigger parking lot for sure! The pews are never filled up but the parking lot is always maxed out, we have to block each other in and that's annoying.



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[psalms 91]

Asking if God has changed isn't really relevant to the question. We don't execute children for dishonoring their parents, we don't punish adulterers by stoning them to death and we don't regard eating pork and shellfish as an abomination any more.

It is relevant, very. For if God changes then nothing in His word is set in stone and at least I know that isnt true. It isnt just the building but also the pastor, you know the one who is on call 24-7 and does sermons and prays and hopefully gets guidance and is led by the Holy Spirit. If he has to work then he isnt going to have time for all this. If a pastor is called then he willbe doing this and much more, if he treats it as a job then I would find another church.

 

[psalms 91]

I believe its necessary to tithe for AC in Texas churches, also how can a preacher preach full time without tithing?
It goes to God IMO but I don't think he wants us to break our banks either, I actually can't afford it now but I have paid a tithe or two before lol
I would if I could

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

My income is limited and fixed yet I tithe because I feel it is what God wants from every believer.

 

[Andrew]

My income is limited and fixed yet I tithe because I feel it is what God wants from every believer.

My income is not fixed, it sways throughout the seasons and I also pay back school loans monthly and will for another 8 years.
Official envelope tithes I have done a few, but I always try to toss in cash into the offerings whether it be 5 10 or 20 dollars.
I need a better paying job for sure, been there for 3 years and have never gotten a raise, 10 dollars an hour for triple the pace of when I started there... I got to stay content and patient and thank God because they are finally moving me to a position where I can get my 8 hours and have to time to look for opportunity and get re involved in the church. I really want to join the church band and maybe even sing, I think things are finally going to turn around for me this year.


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[tango]

It is relevant, very. For if God changes then nothing in His word is set in stone and at least I know that isnt true. It isnt just the building but also the pastor, you know the one who is on call 24-7 and does sermons and prays and hopefully gets guidance and is led by the Holy Spirit. If he has to work then he isnt going to have time for all this. If a pastor is called then he willbe doing this and much more, if he treats it as a job then I would find another church.

Do you eat pork or shellfish? If so then you have to acknowledge that some of God's word was intended for the Israelites and is not applicable to us today.

Do you expect adulterers to be executed by stoning? Do you expect disobedient children to be put to death? Do you think women should be isolated for 7 days during their special time of the month? If not then you have to acknowledge that some of God's word was intended for the Israelites and is not applicable to us today.

As I said if people want a pastor to be available full-time, if they want him or her to regard "pastor" as their full-time job, then they have to pay for it. Whether that involves 10% or some other figure is for the individual to determine.

 

[Josiah]

Some of MY (fairly worthless) thoughts....


1. The "tithe" is part of OLD TESTAMENT ceremonial law that doesn't apply. But I DO think that generous, proportional, "first-fruits" giving IS a New Testament practice, affirmed by Jesus and Paul in Holy Scripture.


2. At times, I wonder why Christians - because of FAITH, LOVE and GRATITUDE - would want to give less than the Jews did because of legalistic mandate?


3. I believe ONE of the best ways to learn how to be a giving person is to give. And one of the best ways to become more a hoarder, more self-serving, is to withhold.


4. I believe the best way to approach stewardship in CHRISTIANITY is from the perspective of the Gospel in response to all God gives. Not a bunch of Old Testament "gottas" And maybe even the one in faith, love and gratitude just MIGHT give MORE than the one who's got the "you GOTTA."


5. I started with 10%. As a teen, as I got my first jobs. Today, my wife and I allocate 20% of our income before taxes to charity. Most of that goes to our parish, the rest to a number of other charities (not all religious...). It's in our budget ($2800.00 per month, I think... our weekly offering to our church is $500.). The reason is Jesus.


BUT that's us. I think that each should do "as he has made up his mind" "as faith guides you." WANNAS. Not GOTTAS. I think God prefers $100 a week given gladly and out of faith to $1000 a week given with a "I gotta." After all, Jesus doesn't need this.... WE DO. It doesn't change Him, it changes us.



- Josiah




.

 

[NewCreation435]

it seems that according to this article most christians do not tithe

The article stated
“Only 10 to 25 percent of the families in the church” tithe, according to the 2013 State of the Plate report (cosponsored by CT’s sister publication Church Law & Tax).
The numbers match a Barna Group finding that 5 percent of adults tithe to a church or charitable organization; among born-again Christians, the rate rose to 12 percent.
Almost all churchgoing tithers—who typically give between 11 percent and 20 percent of their income—make the local church a priority (97%), the State of the Plate report found. Their gifts supply “50 to 80 percent of the funding.”
While giving to church isn’t as popular as it used to be, religion still receives about a third of all donations nationwide (32%), Giving USA found. In 2016, Americans gave nearly $123 billion to religion. That’s up 3 percent from 2015, and twice as much as the next highest category, which was education at 15 percent.

rest of the article here
https://www.christianitytoday.com/n...e-doesnt-have-to-go-to-church-ministries.html

And just to weigh in on the subject, I don't think the passage in Malachi applies to believers today. It was an Old Testament concept.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I have heard preachers preach this text in Malachi 3 and apply it to believers today saying that believers today should tithe. Yet, this is in the last book of the Old Testament, hundreds of years before Christ. The New Testament seems less explicit about tithing. The New Testament believers in Acts shared everything with each other.

Here is the text from Malachi 3:8-12
8 “Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, ‘How have we robbed You?’ In tithes and [n]offerings. 9 You are cursed with a curse, for you are [o]robbing Me, the whole nation of you! 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows. 11 Then I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of the ground; nor will your vine in the field cast its grapes,” says the Lord of hosts. 12 “All the nations will call you blessed, for you shall be a delightful land,” says the Lord of hosts."

Do you believe christians are to tithe today? Does this promise apply to us today or not?

Christians do not need to tithe. Giving 10% (or more) is not an obligation. Acts chapter five explains that definitively. Christians are to give whatever they decide to give and do it freely, willingly, and without boasting also without being pressured into it. Sermons taken from Malachi chapter three and four about robbing God are abhorrent when they are applied to an appeal for more money in the offerings. Give nothing if you decide to give nothing or give everything if you decide to do that. What matters is that the decision be unforced be without external pressures and be willing.

 

[atpollard]

2 Corinthians 9:7 NASB Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

 

[tango]

Of course it's also worth mentioning gifts that don't fall neatly into a precise number of dollars and cents (or pounds, euro, yen, whatever) handed over.

I know a couple of people personally who are, financially speaking, somewhere between hard up and struggling. But they have lots of time on their hands, so they volunteer at church a lot. I don't know what they put in the collection plate but from what I've seen I don't think it's very much if indeed anything at all. But if a volunteer is needed to help with something at church, chances are they will be there helping out.

In many ways their gifts of time are just as valuable, if not more so, than gifts of money as far as those particular ministries are concerned. It's all very well having money but if there's nobody to do what needs doing it doesn't help much.

 

[tango]

Just another thought about gifts is how to value a gift that isn't monetary but a specific item.

At its most simple it can be, well, simple. A while back the computer at my church failed and needed a new hard drive. I selected a hard drive, bought it and installed it. I didn't bother putting in the receipt for the hard drive because it was well within what I'd expect to give to the church as a matter of routine. Then I spent several hours getting everything reinstalled and configured, and recovering as much data as I could from the dead hard drive. What value should be placed on the time and expertise given without charge? Some would say zero because it didn't cost me any money, others would say to multiple the number of hours by my normal hourly rate.

A couple I know are farmers. They frequently give produce to their church for outreach type events when people need feeding. What value should be placed on their gifts? The cost to them of growing the produce or the market value of what they gave?

I can only imagine what a strict tithe would look like in an agricultural area, if farmers showed up at church and handed over 10% of their crops. Chances are most churches couldn't cope with storing it all and would end up wasting much of it.

 

[Andrew]

Christians do not need to tithe. Giving 10% (or more) is not an obligation. Acts chapter five explains that definitively. Christians are to give whatever they decide to give and do it freely, willingly, and without boasting also without being pressured into it. Sermons taken from Malachi chapter three and four about robbing God are abhorrent when they are applied to an appeal for more money in the offerings. Give nothing if you decide to give nothing or give everything if you decide to do that. What matters is that the decision be unforced be without external pressures and be willing.

I agree but I can also see why churches set up the 10 percent standard, there has to be some round about standard to go by IMO whether or not we willingly donate as much (like who is checking our pay stubs?)

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[NewCreation435]

Of course it's also worth mentioning gifts that don't fall neatly into a precise number of dollars and cents (or pounds, euro, yen, whatever) handed over.

I know a couple of people personally who are, financially speaking, somewhere between hard up and struggling. But they have lots of time on their hands, so they volunteer at church a lot. I don't know what they put in the collection plate but from what I've seen I don't think it's very much if indeed anything at all. But if a volunteer is needed to help with something at church, chances are they will be there helping out.

In many ways their gifts of time are just as valuable, if not more so, than gifts of money as far as those particular ministries are concerned. It's all very well having money but if there's nobody to do what needs doing it doesn't help much.

I've heard it said that smaller churches (under one hundred in attendance) are called "family chapel churches" because a few families seem to be involved in everything in those churches. They not only give the most but serve the most. I know most pastors would love it if more people volunteered to do more with their time. It is indeed a gift.

 

[psalms 91]

Yes, the one church I go to gets money but people to do things is in short supply